|
On November 18 2012 02:05 silynxer wrote:
Come on try to read what I wrote. I admitted the problems of the intifada blog but I reasoned why I included it: You can use the sources inside the blog even if you distrust the blog. Would you have done this you would have seen that the incident with the jeep was not the first event in the recent series of violence.
And the Huffington post article is from 2009. Like I said at least try to read what I wrote. I'm not here to fight anybody or to win, I would just love if I could help you to understand the other side better.
I do feel empathy for the civilians, most people do. How ever Hamas is a different story.
|
On November 18 2012 02:08 Goozen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 02:05 silynxer wrote:
Come on try to read what I wrote. I admitted the problems of the intifada blog but I reasoned why I included it: You can use the sources inside the blog even if you distrust the blog. Would you have done this you would have seen that the incident with the jeep was not the first event in the recent series of violence.
And the Huffington post article is from 2009. Like I said at least try to read what I wrote. I'm not here to fight anybody or to win, I would just love if I could help you to understand the other side better. I do feel empathy for the civilians, most people do. How ever Hamas is a different story.
I guess you do feel empathy with the civilians because your nation forced their people out of their land, and I also guess you do not feel empathy with Hamas because they are trying to get back their land on the same way your nation took it away from them, with the strenght.
For me It is like if you feel sorry for stealing me my food violently but when i try to get it back at the same way.. you condemn.
|
On November 18 2012 02:08 Goozen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 02:05 silynxer wrote:
Come on try to read what I wrote. I admitted the problems of the intifada blog but I reasoned why I included it: You can use the sources inside the blog even if you distrust the blog. Would you have done this you would have seen that the incident with the jeep was not the first event in the recent series of violence.
And the Huffington post article is from 2009. Like I said at least try to read what I wrote. I'm not here to fight anybody or to win, I would just love if I could help you to understand the other side better. I do feel empathy for the civilians, most people do. How ever Hamas is a different story.
Then can I convince you of a policy change regarding Gaza? How about offering them (after this episode is over) a prolonged truce like in 2008 but actually easing the blockade this time? Or perhaps can I convince you to not voting Likud next time (not implying you did last time), something like this?
Btw on a personal note, are you (and anybody else from Israel) being drafted right now (perhaps too young)? To the ones who are I'm interested in hearing how you experienced the events afterwards.
|
On November 18 2012 02:14 arChieSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 02:08 Goozen wrote:On November 18 2012 02:05 silynxer wrote:
Come on try to read what I wrote. I admitted the problems of the intifada blog but I reasoned why I included it: You can use the sources inside the blog even if you distrust the blog. Would you have done this you would have seen that the incident with the jeep was not the first event in the recent series of violence.
And the Huffington post article is from 2009. Like I said at least try to read what I wrote. I'm not here to fight anybody or to win, I would just love if I could help you to understand the other side better. I do feel empathy for the civilians, most people do. How ever Hamas is a different story. I guess you do feel empathy with the civilians because your nation forced their people out of their land, and I also guess you do not feel empathy with Hamas because they are trying to get back their land on the same way your nation took it away from them, with the strenght. For me It is like if you feel sorry for stealing me my food violently but when i try to get it back at the same way.. you condemn.
There is no contested land around gaza, and in the west bank where there is contested land hamas have no power. However this will be the last reply to you as you clearly think the firing rockets is justified and that the whole issue is one sided, good day.
|
they yust can't leave each other alone can they?
|
On November 18 2012 02:17 silynxer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 02:08 Goozen wrote:On November 18 2012 02:05 silynxer wrote:
Come on try to read what I wrote. I admitted the problems of the intifada blog but I reasoned why I included it: You can use the sources inside the blog even if you distrust the blog. Would you have done this you would have seen that the incident with the jeep was not the first event in the recent series of violence.
And the Huffington post article is from 2009. Like I said at least try to read what I wrote. I'm not here to fight anybody or to win, I would just love if I could help you to understand the other side better. I do feel empathy for the civilians, most people do. How ever Hamas is a different story. Then can I convince you of a policy change regarding Gaza? How about offering them (after this episode is over) a prolonged truce like in 2008 but actually easing the blockade this time? Or perhaps can I convince you to not voting Likud next time (not implying you did last time), something like this? Btw on a personal note, are you (and anybody else from Israel) being drafted right now (perhaps too young)? To the ones who are I'm interested in hearing how you experienced the events afterwards.
Im post army, so i may be called for reserve duty although haven't yet. Israel dosnt want violence and it will achieve them nothing, However you need to remember that Hamas have also been trying to attack Israel via Sinai so when there is Intel about an attack we wont sit on our hands. First thing that needs to happen for peace is that all violence must stop, (people from gaza used to even work in Israel and the economic situation there was much better before the second intifada that led to the state today), then Hamas and the PLO need to become one group that Israel can negotiate with that represents all the population.
As far as Likud, all the 3 "main" party's have more or less the same political line as far as security goes so it make no difference.
Edit: its worth adding that part of the problem is the international support Hamas has, be it from Iran or from public opinion in the Muslim world. They are seen as as heroes for fighting the "evil Zionists" so even after cast led that resulted in a huge blow to them, the local population even though there were few Israelis who died and their munitions mostly destroyed its seen as a "victory" so for them almost every outcome is a win/win
|
Honestly, one side IS going to have to just win this some day. There's too much hatred and personal feeling tied up in the conflict for it to end any other way.
|
actually israel did start the exchanges this time. they flew a helicopter during an excursion into gaza over a playground and shot a 12 year old playing soccer in the face. then hamas blew up some IED tunnel and fired an RPG at a jeep. that
is when the rockets and bombs started to be exchanged.
|
On November 18 2012 01:18 sgfightmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 00:41 NesquiKGG wrote:just as i mentioned before... Israel is good at telling lies and manipulating people  .. these people who are tryin to defend what Israel did to Palastine the few years are the best example of brainwashed brats who got manipluated .... You can turn your head away and stop looking at the facts but Israel and America did kill Millions of People for "defending" theirselfs ... good example 9/11 and Alqaida ... they used this to kill Millions of Iraqis and Afghans.. Israel uses hamas to keep on their projects getting their "land" back (LOLZ) by killing more and more innocent people .. and dont ever EVER EVER try to tell me they are not innocent or hamas is to blame for their death.... i cant run arround and kill every single American just because their Soldiers (i call them Terrorists) messed up my Country... a cursory search on google/wiki reveals your figures of "millions of people" are off the mark by orders of magnitudes. this is literally a fact. also, many of the civilian casualties are caused by explosive devices of the insurgents themselves. would you stop hurting the discussion with these mistaken claims? unless of course, you've "seen things", in which case do go right ahead and quote your sources
google huh? I lost 2 Uncles 4 cousins 1 aunt and my Grandfather .. you know how? Americans randomly shooted at a supermarket just for fun ... you know what the News published? It was a suicide mission of one of the terrorists ... now let me ask you one thing.. you remember the last attack from Israel against Gaza when they killed like hundres of innocent people at the Beach? when the Turkish President asked that moron how people try to defend him while he did this thing everybody tried to shut him up ... why? why do people who try to tell the truth always get cut off? Answer me some Questions and i gonna stop hatin on Israel.
How do you feel as a neutral Person about what happened the last time when Israel attacked Gaza? (the Beach story and so on) + Show Spoiler +
How do you react when people kill a member of your Family or the whole Family? ( im sure you cant answer this cause you didnt go trough something like that and i wish you and the others here never gonna live through a hell like this )
|
On November 18 2012 02:41 heliusx wrote:
actually israel did start the exchanges this time. they flew a helicopter during an excursion into gaza over a playground and shot a 12 year old playing soccer in the face. then hamas blew up some IED tunnel and fired an RPG at a jeep. that
is when the rockets and bombs started to be exchanged.
Yup, no mention of the constant rocket attacks before this at all or the soldier that got his arm blown off (source).
|
On November 18 2012 02:42 NesquiKGG wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 01:18 sgfightmaster wrote:On November 18 2012 00:41 NesquiKGG wrote:just as i mentioned before... Israel is good at telling lies and manipulating people .. these people who are tryin to defend what Israel did to Palastine the few years are the best example of brainwashed brats who got manipluated .... You can turn your head away and stop looking at the facts but Israel and America did kill Millions of People for "defending" theirselfs ... good example 9/11 and Alqaida ... they used this to kill Millions of Iraqis and Afghans.. Israel uses hamas to keep on their projects getting their "land" back (LOLZ) by killing more and more innocent people .. and dont ever EVER EVER try to tell me they are not innocent or hamas is to blame for their death.... i cant run arround and kill every single American just because their Soldiers (i call them Terrorists) messed up my Country... a cursory search on google/wiki reveals your figures of "millions of people" are off the mark by orders of magnitudes. this is literally a fact. also, many of the civilian casualties are caused by explosive devices of the insurgents themselves. would you stop hurting the discussion with these mistaken claims? unless of course, you've "seen things", in which case do go right ahead and quote your sources google huh? I lost 2 Uncles 4 cousins 1 aunt and my Grandfather .. you know how? Americans randomly shooted at a supermarket just for fun ... you know what the News published? It was a suicide mission of one of the terrorists ... now let me ask you one thing.. you remember the last attack from Israel against Gaza when they killed like hundres of innocent people at the Beach? when the Turkish President asked that moron how people try to defend him while he did this thing everybody tried to shut him up ... why? why do people who try to tell the truth always get cut off? Answer me some Questions and i gonna stop hatin on Israel. How do you feel as a neutral Person about what happened the last time when Israel attacked Gaza? (the Beach story and so on) + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfKwW3pkx7g&feature=player_detailpage#t=49s How do you react when people kill a member of your Family or the whole Family? ( im sure you cant answer this cause you didnt go trough something like that and i wish you and the others here never gonna live through a hell like this )
You chose Hamas over peace, you face the consequences.
|
On November 18 2012 02:42 NesquiKGG wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 01:18 sgfightmaster wrote:On November 18 2012 00:41 NesquiKGG wrote:just as i mentioned before... Israel is good at telling lies and manipulating people .. these people who are tryin to defend what Israel did to Palastine the few years are the best example of brainwashed brats who got manipluated .... You can turn your head away and stop looking at the facts but Israel and America did kill Millions of People for "defending" theirselfs ... good example 9/11 and Alqaida ... they used this to kill Millions of Iraqis and Afghans.. Israel uses hamas to keep on their projects getting their "land" back (LOLZ) by killing more and more innocent people .. and dont ever EVER EVER try to tell me they are not innocent or hamas is to blame for their death.... i cant run arround and kill every single American just because their Soldiers (i call them Terrorists) messed up my Country... a cursory search on google/wiki reveals your figures of "millions of people" are off the mark by orders of magnitudes. this is literally a fact. also, many of the civilian casualties are caused by explosive devices of the insurgents themselves. would you stop hurting the discussion with these mistaken claims? unless of course, you've "seen things", in which case do go right ahead and quote your sources google huh? I lost 2 Uncles 4 cousins 1 aunt and my Grandfather .. you know how? Americans randomly shooted at a supermarket just for fun ... you know what the News published? It was a suicide mission of one of the terrorists ... now let me ask you one thing.. you remember the last attack from Israel against Gaza when they killed like hundres of innocent people at the Beach? when the Turkish President asked that moron how people try to defend him while he did this thing everybody tried to shut him up ... why? why do people who try to tell the truth always get cut off? Answer me some Questions and i gonna stop hatin on Israel. How do you feel as a neutral Person about what happened the last time when Israel attacked Gaza? (the Beach story and so on) + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfKwW3pkx7g&feature=player_detailpage#t=49s How do you react when people kill a member of your Family or the whole Family? ( im sure you cant answer this cause you didnt go trough something like that and i wish you and the others here never gonna live through a hell like this )
This works both ways. i could ask you how you feel about those who have rockets fired on their homes, whos family got blown up in coffee shops, those who had whole families (including babies) stabbed to death in their homes.
Also link a news story for that beach attack please, not a you tube vid, because i found this: link
(wiki) that casts serious doubts on this claim and shows it was a IED already present on the beach.
|
you remember the last attack from Israel against Gaza when they killed like hundres of innocent people at the Beach?
No, because hundreds of innocent people weren't killed at the Gaza beach. Try 8. By a land mine the Palestinians themselves buried, or an Israeli shell from earlier shelling that did not explode and was touched off by vibrations from shelling farther down the beach. This is conclusive evidence that Israel massacres people on purpose.
This is the kind of ridiculous bullshit that people say about Israel all the time, and people actually believe it. Facts aren't necessary, just accuse Israel of a massacre and it's automatically accepted by the sheep.
|
On November 18 2012 02:45 Goozen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 02:41 heliusx wrote:
actually israel did start the exchanges this time. they flew a helicopter during an excursion into gaza over a playground and shot a 12 year old playing soccer in the face. then hamas blew up some IED tunnel and fired an RPG at a jeep. that
is when the rockets and bombs started to be exchanged. Yup, no mention of the constant rocket attacks before this at all or the soldier that got his arm blown off (source).
Fair enough. We can go back and forth about each side killing each other, you will lose the argument though considering the death tolls. The fact is when you murder someones child for no reason you can expect hostilities to go to the extreme every time. Not only do you make an entire family of enemies you also create a propaganda for hamas to use. But who cares right? It's only a palestinian kid a piece of scum who supports hamas, even though hes not old enough to understand.
|
On November 18 2012 02:53 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +you remember the last attack from Israel against Gaza when they killed like hundres of innocent people at the Beach? No, because hundreds of innocent people weren't killed at the Gaza beach. This is the kind of ridiculous bullshit that people say about Israel all the time, and people actually believe it. Facts aren't necessary, just accuse Israel of a massacre and it's automatically accepted by the sheep.
On November 16 2012 05:25 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +And a majority of deaths are actually women and children cited by the UN and Red Cross... A massive majority are killed in their homes during bombing strikes.
Actually a majority of the deaths are males of combat age. From 2000-2007 94% of Palestinian casualties were male and 80% were adults. A massive majority are killed in street battles, some of which involved air strikes, but a massive majority are not killed in their homes by airstrikes.
Still waiting on the source for this. You ran away from the thread as soon as I asked. Is that your strategy? You post lies until someone calls you out then leave the thread for 24 hours to resume? The irony.
|
Fair enough. We can go back and forth about each side killing each other, you will lose the argument though considering the death tolls.
This makes sense... wait no it makes zero sense.
The fact is when you murder someones child for no reason
Ah yes, Israel murders children for no reason.
That is very convincing.
|
On November 18 2012 02:46 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 02:42 NesquiKGG wrote:On November 18 2012 01:18 sgfightmaster wrote:On November 18 2012 00:41 NesquiKGG wrote:just as i mentioned before... Israel is good at telling lies and manipulating people .. these people who are tryin to defend what Israel did to Palastine the few years are the best example of brainwashed brats who got manipluated .... You can turn your head away and stop looking at the facts but Israel and America did kill Millions of People for "defending" theirselfs ... good example 9/11 and Alqaida ... they used this to kill Millions of Iraqis and Afghans.. Israel uses hamas to keep on their projects getting their "land" back (LOLZ) by killing more and more innocent people .. and dont ever EVER EVER try to tell me they are not innocent or hamas is to blame for their death.... i cant run arround and kill every single American just because their Soldiers (i call them Terrorists) messed up my Country... a cursory search on google/wiki reveals your figures of "millions of people" are off the mark by orders of magnitudes. this is literally a fact. also, many of the civilian casualties are caused by explosive devices of the insurgents themselves. would you stop hurting the discussion with these mistaken claims? unless of course, you've "seen things", in which case do go right ahead and quote your sources google huh? I lost 2 Uncles 4 cousins 1 aunt and my Grandfather .. you know how? Americans randomly shooted at a supermarket just for fun ... you know what the News published? It was a suicide mission of one of the terrorists ... now let me ask you one thing.. you remember the last attack from Israel against Gaza when they killed like hundres of innocent people at the Beach? when the Turkish President asked that moron how people try to defend him while he did this thing everybody tried to shut him up ... why? why do people who try to tell the truth always get cut off? Answer me some Questions and i gonna stop hatin on Israel. How do you feel as a neutral Person about what happened the last time when Israel attacked Gaza? (the Beach story and so on) + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfKwW3pkx7g&feature=player_detailpage#t=49s How do you react when people kill a member of your Family or the whole Family? ( im sure you cant answer this cause you didnt go trough something like that and i wish you and the others here never gonna live through a hell like this ) You chose Hamas over peace, you face the consequences.
ok ´smart guy.. tell me how do you know that "we" (im not from palastine) chose Hamas over peace? ... the only people who rejected peace are the Hamas leader ... the people there dont have the power to speak in public cause they are busy with saving injured people or pick up the deaths...
|
Israel2209 Posts
The IDF (same one that only seeks to kill Palestinians) will open the border crossing to Gaza tomorrow and allow transfer of medical equipment and food into the Hamas controlled Gaza Strip. (Source)
Please ignore the extra sarcasm, it is only intended at the illustrious WhiteDog!
One wonders why the Egyptians who love their Hamas brothers so much are not doing this from their border crossing.
|
On November 18 2012 02:41 heliusx wrote:
actually israel did start the exchanges this time. they flew a helicopter during an excursion into gaza over a playground and shot a 12 year old playing soccer in the face. then hamas blew up some IED tunnel and fired an RPG at a jeep. that
is when the rockets and bombs started to be exchanged.
i looked at several sources for this. the child was killed by a stray bullet during a firefight between IDF and PRC fighters during a skirmish at the border. very sad, but not the deliberate killing implied by your post. one would argue that launching attacks from civilian areas where the likelihood of this event occuring is exponentially higher is a dubious tactic.
|
On November 18 2012 02:46 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2012 02:42 NesquiKGG wrote:On November 18 2012 01:18 sgfightmaster wrote:On November 18 2012 00:41 NesquiKGG wrote:just as i mentioned before... Israel is good at telling lies and manipulating people .. these people who are tryin to defend what Israel did to Palastine the few years are the best example of brainwashed brats who got manipluated .... You can turn your head away and stop looking at the facts but Israel and America did kill Millions of People for "defending" theirselfs ... good example 9/11 and Alqaida ... they used this to kill Millions of Iraqis and Afghans.. Israel uses hamas to keep on their projects getting their "land" back (LOLZ) by killing more and more innocent people .. and dont ever EVER EVER try to tell me they are not innocent or hamas is to blame for their death.... i cant run arround and kill every single American just because their Soldiers (i call them Terrorists) messed up my Country... a cursory search on google/wiki reveals your figures of "millions of people" are off the mark by orders of magnitudes. this is literally a fact. also, many of the civilian casualties are caused by explosive devices of the insurgents themselves. would you stop hurting the discussion with these mistaken claims? unless of course, you've "seen things", in which case do go right ahead and quote your sources google huh? I lost 2 Uncles 4 cousins 1 aunt and my Grandfather .. you know how? Americans randomly shooted at a supermarket just for fun ... you know what the News published? It was a suicide mission of one of the terrorists ... now let me ask you one thing.. you remember the last attack from Israel against Gaza when they killed like hundres of innocent people at the Beach? when the Turkish President asked that moron how people try to defend him while he did this thing everybody tried to shut him up ... why? why do people who try to tell the truth always get cut off? Answer me some Questions and i gonna stop hatin on Israel. How do you feel as a neutral Person about what happened the last time when Israel attacked Gaza? (the Beach story and so on) + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfKwW3pkx7g&feature=player_detailpage#t=49s How do you react when people kill a member of your Family or the whole Family? ( im sure you cant answer this cause you didnt go trough something like that and i wish you and the others here never gonna live through a hell like this ) You chose Hamas over peace, you face the consequences.
why would you say something like this to someone who lost his family members?
i am truly sorry to hear this but the point still stands - israel and the us are not architects of mass murder on the scale you mentioned, and such claims should not play a role in the apportioning of blame to either side
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
