EPTFungal should be more like Plague from Broodwar. - Page 3
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RowdierBob
Australia13295 Posts
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Zombo Joe
Canada850 Posts
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sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
Zerg can only survive any matchup because of how powerful infestors AS-THEY-ARE work. If you're going to even consider modifying fungal from its current form, you better damn well possess the understanding of the role infestors play for Zerg builds and army compositions in every matchup. To even suggest any changes without radical buffs to cover what you just took from Zerg's ability is naive and proves a lack of understanding of the basics within the game. | ||
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Nightsz
Canada398 Posts
Antimicro spells should NEVER exist in sc2. | ||
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cpc
Australia126 Posts
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Dontkillme
Korea (South)806 Posts
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On October 04 2012 12:38 sCCrooked wrote: Anybody still suggesting things like "remove damage" for fungal or "have it slow instead of root" doesn't understand the basic design problems with each race at a high enough level to be talking about this. Zerg can only survive any matchup because of how powerful infestors AS-THEY-ARE work. If you're going to even consider modifying fungal from its current form, you better damn well possess the understanding of the role infestors play for Zerg builds and army compositions in every matchup. To even suggest any changes without radical buffs to cover what you just took from Zerg's ability is naive and proves a lack of understanding of the basics within the game. Agree. I think fungals need to be looked at. At the same time, the other zerg units will need a buff (hydras?) of some sort to compensate. Same thing with buffing T3 terran, I think it is a good idea. But probably need a slight nerf to late game marines to compensate. Same with Mothership vortex. | ||
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Nightsz
Canada398 Posts
On October 04 2012 12:44 Dontkillme wrote: Next thing you know is people is going to want Dark Swarm back. (I know viper has a similar ability but it isn't the same) Fungal is fine they way it is. Plus plague aginst mech is too strong, unless you always have like 20 SCVs on auto repair. Fungal is fine the way it is? That has got to be the most biased statement ever. It has been generally accepted by literally everyone that it is completely overpowered. 75 energy for a 4 second snare, 30(+10) AoE lethal damage, instant cast, reveals cloaked units. There is not a single ability in sc2 that comes even close to being that powerful. | ||
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Dauntless
Norway548 Posts
Sadly, much of the game is balanced around the effectiveness of both Fungal and Force Field. If these were abilities you'd find high up in a tech tree, I think I'd appreciate them more, as we wouldn't see them in every single game. If Fungal and Force Field is to be removed, or moved to be late game upgrades, you'd have to buff the units they are usually supported by, which would mean strong as hell 4gates and immortal Zerglings and Roaches.. Unless of course, they added something new to the mix. MSCore might be a solution. As well as the Swarm Host, mayhaps.. | ||
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terranghost
United States980 Posts
On OP i would love it if fungal were divided into two spells say ensnare for 25-50 energy and fungal(plauge) for 50-75 energy. Or even putting maybe the ensnare spell say on the overseer or curroptor to give them another use. (However if it were on the curruptor than it would have to be a cooldown spell don't want to have the collosus killers getting fedback too much again.) | ||
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
On October 04 2012 12:49 Dauntless wrote: The only good thing that comes out of Fungal, is that we get to see some awesome pre-battle splits. While that is really nice, and requires a player to have good preparation, I don't really like how once a Fungal has happened, there's nothing you can do about it. Sadly, much of the game is balanced around the effectiveness of both Fungal and Force Field. If these were abilities you'd find high up in a tech tree, I think I'd appreciate them more, as we wouldn't see them in every single game. If Fungal and Force Field is to be removed, or moved to be late game upgrades, you'd have to buff the units they are usually supported by, which would mean strong as hell 4gates and immortal Zerglings and Roaches.. Unless of course, they added something new to the mix. MSCore might be a solution. As well as the Swarm Host, mayhaps.. I think Fungal is the easier fix, especially considering how strong  is in the current metagame. Even a nerf from root->50% slow is still a powerful spell. Maybe a buff to Hydras will help deal with mass air. Hydras need a buff anyways, so killing 2 birds with 1 stone.  As for Forcefield, I have no clue. Some people have suggested giving it hitpoints, but that seems like a nightmare to balance. | ||
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MateShade
Australia736 Posts
On October 04 2012 07:33 sCCrooked wrote: Just quoting this so you can't edit it away later after the inevitable slew of posters that will lol at your very incorrect statement. Any decent player understands this. Only poor or terrible player with bad understanding of strategy at a basic level will even think of disagreeing with what I've implied. No he is right, force field can be Micro'd out of. Fungal to cannot, stop whining because you suck at the game and actually compare them properly, you cannot do a thing to avoid fungal, you can to get away from forcefields | ||
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MateShade
Australia736 Posts
On October 04 2012 12:47 vthree wrote: Agree. I think fungals need to be looked at. At the same time, the other zerg units will need a buff (hydras?) of some sort to compensate. Same thing with buffing T3 terran, I think it is a good idea. But probably need a slight nerf to late game marines to compensate. Same with Mothership vortex. Nobody is suggesting to leave the game as is when changing fungal, I don't know why people even bring it up. Of course you'll have to change other things, it's a stupid arguement | ||
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sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
On October 04 2012 12:58 MateShade wrote: No he is right, force field can be Micro'd out of. Fungal to cannot, stop whining because you suck at the game and actually compare them properly, you cannot do a thing to avoid fungal, you can to get away from forcefields You fit into the second part of my post. Stop whining because you can't identify basic components of strategy. | ||
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YyapSsap
New Zealand1511 Posts
On October 04 2012 12:53 terranghost wrote: What about just disabling smart cast for spells that reduce micro. On OP i would love it if fungal were divided into two spells say ensnare for 25-50 energy and fungal(plauge) for 50-75 energy. Or even putting maybe the ensnare spell say on the overseer or curroptor to give them another use. (However if it were on the curruptor than it would have to be a cooldown spell don't want to have the collosus killers getting fedback too much again.) This. This. This. Why? 1)It puts way more emphasis on troop vs troop rather than caster vs caster unless you can somehow pull off the micro (where the casters sometimes become the "core" composition.. seems way too much like warcraft 3) 2)It puts the skill ceiling that much higher which means that pulling off lots of spells (storms) on the right location is actually worth cheering for (or casters shouting about great fungals). 3)It can be compensated by buffing the damage to OP levels making them look visually devastating as their gfx animations suggest. edit - It would be good if Blizzard could delay the access to these spellcasters to late game (or make them much riskier if tried to access the tech early) as SC has all been about troop vs troop which is something I always thought was missing in SC2 (only T follows this tradition close and Z somewhat). | ||
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terranghost
United States980 Posts
On October 04 2012 12:38 sCCrooked wrote: Anybody still suggesting things like "remove damage" for fungal or "have it slow instead of root" doesn't understand the basic design problems with each race at a high enough level to be talking about this. Zerg can only survive any matchup because of how powerful infestors AS-THEY-ARE work. If you're going to even consider modifying fungal from its current form, you better damn well possess the understanding of the role infestors play for Zerg builds and army compositions in every matchup. To even suggest any changes without radical buffs to cover what you just took from Zerg's ability is naive and proves a lack of understanding of the basics within the game. True if any change were really made to the infestor it would spell doom for the entire zerg race however.... This is the HOTS beta forum a beta is a place for things to be tried and experimented with. I see no harm in suggestion no matter how ridiculous it might be having Blizzard find out about it and implement it to try it out. If a change were indeed implemented to the infestor and it ended up detrimental other units could be buffed to compensate or the change could just be revoked it is a beta after all. I mean I doubt anyone here is suggesting to have this change implemented for WOL and if they are they should really think twice about it. | ||
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Beef Noodles
United States937 Posts
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sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
On October 04 2012 13:05 terranghost wrote: True if any change were really made to the infestor it would spell doom for the entire zerg race however.... This is the HOTS beta forum a beta is a place for things to be tried and experimented with. I see no harm in suggestion no matter how ridiculous it might be having Blizzard find out about it and implement it to try it out. If a change were indeed implemented to the infestor and it ended up detrimental other units could be buffed to compensate or the change could just be revoked it is a beta after all. I mean I doubt anyone here is suggesting to have this change implemented for WOL and if they are they should really think twice about it. Perhaps people are misunderstanding my stance on fungal. I actually hate the spell. I want my damn scourge back for my anti-air. I want corruptors to not be so one-dimensional. I want ffs to not be the ENTIRE focus of Protoss army strategies through the early/midgame. These are problems pros have been wishing Blizzard would address for a very long time now and these concerns have been completely ignored. I loved the defiler in BW and was hoping Viper would be somewhat similar (it seems it is a step in the right direction for anti-deathball tactics). However the role of the infestor right now is so important because of our inability to get detection without very high economic cost at critical moments or anti-air at the exact same type of critical moments. Its a serious design flaw with Zerg. I won't even go into the gripes I have with our units that give no sort of significant advantage over simply setting up an arc and then attack moving into the other army. | ||
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YyapSsap
New Zealand1511 Posts
On October 04 2012 13:08 Beef Noodles wrote: As a zerg, I agree. Change fungal. It's stupid. But now how are you going to fix zerg? A buff to hydras does not cover how weak zerg is without fungal... Could lower their cost? supply? instead of being expensive glass cannons? Hydras should be spammable just like the roach imo. | ||
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