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Canada13403 Posts
On September 05 2012 03:25 HowardRoark wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 03:12 Sabu113 wrote:
So much tweaking to do. Still extremely skeptical that the oracle will end up having much use beyond some gimmics. Without hte cloak ... it just doesn't add too much. The harass will be very early game centered and frankly the idea behind slowing mining rather than destroying actual mining outpiut is flawed. I can understand the thought process. This is a unique ability that /will/ affect mules heavily, but against zerg it looks like it will be almost worthless and it doesn't help you chip your way back into the game like a money reaver shot does (Nor frankly does it look very entertaining which is already a giant problem with WoL). Exactly, it does not look very entertaining at all and that is he problem with the Oracle. It will be a standard shift-click-click-click manoeuvre every single game to lock down minerals - OR - it won't be used, depending on tweaking. Either it will be used always or never, and since they will probably have to make it worthwhile if will be tweaked to be worth the cost.
Agreed. The one thing protoss is really lacking is harass, not because we have no viable way to slow down mining, but because there is no way for protoss to come back into a game.
We can try upgrades but if we aren't ahead in ups or even when we start the chronos, it doesnt help protoss make a comeback.
Without impacting larva production cycles, its hard for protoss to win a long game against zerg.
The entomb ability while cool still isn't quite the harass we are looking for. The risk reward to a good drop isn't quite the same. At least, psychologically.
This is why if entomb is in, the cloak ability should also be in. If in the later stages of the game, when anti air is around, the oracle has a secondary purpose of using its cloaking field to help our less reliable but more powerful forms of harass like zealot drops do more damage, then that would be a good thing.
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On September 05 2012 03:23 Brahoono wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 03:19 SarcasmMonster wrote:
Instead of complaining about everything, I think we should ALL focus our complaining energies towards the Warhound instead of diluting our complaining efforts. Add the Tempest in there and lets start dem complains. Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 03:20 Plansix wrote:On September 05 2012 03:13 Brahoono wrote:On September 05 2012 03:11 Plansix wrote:On September 05 2012 03:07 ShoWTimE94 wrote:On September 05 2012 03:04 SarcasmMonster wrote:On September 05 2012 02:55 imPermanenCe wrote:On September 05 2012 02:47 Za7oX wrote:On September 05 2012 02:36 roym899 wrote:
What I really hate about what we've seen yet, is the fact that they seem to make the skill ceilling even smaller. The new functions like auto rally and worker display just take away some things good players had in favor of them against worse players, now that this isn't there anymore the level in the bronze league for example will be so much higher now.
All of this is also the reason why the Kespa players where able to catch up so fast. You can reach the end of the skill ceiling pretty fast. And I think everyone in Master league could make it to GM level in 1 month of very hard training with a coach who will tell you your mistakes. im normaly on the side of "it's a newer game, ofc there will be interface improvements" but the worker counter seems abit too much. replay/observer onlyyyyyyyyy. From the man himself: On September 04 2012 18:12 MavercK wrote:On September 04 2012 18:09 Lineridarz wrote:
Well, now that you've told us, can you post instructions on how to do the same thing you did? maybe later, im not in the mood to write guides right now. in short. i extracted the hots mpqs. merged them into a sc2mod file. opened a map. added my new modfile as dependency. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fW7Qnl.jpg) so worker count is ingame. not spectator only. i couldn't find the auto start mining option? also you can see the select army units icon. thats there in MP.  may have something to do with the editor. i played hots at gamescom and there was no worker count. i doubt they changed it. I think we should take the word of the person who played the build of the game, rather than the image created through some vodoo using the client and some other nonsense. I mean, look at that UI, it is missing like 14 buttons. Thats the new noob UI where you dont get any more buttons. Also an option you can now turn on in the Hots client. Worker counting on townhalls is real and an option you can turn on or off. Wait, you are complaining about a UI they made for really bad players that are confused by lots of buttons that you will likely never use? Its like complaining that your sister gets training wheels on her bike, but you didn't. "She should just fall and get hurt like I did. Your making my sister weak." Wasn't compaining about that UI bro ~~ couldn't care less about that thing. Was just pointing out what it was.
Poll: With your first impression, which unit do you dislike more?Warhound (92) 53% Neither (44) 25% Tempest (37) 21% 173 total votes Your vote: With your first impression, which unit do you dislike more? (Vote): Warhound
(Vote): Tempest
(Vote): Neither
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On September 05 2012 03:22 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 03:21 wajd wrote:
What time does Blizzard usually release stuff? Morning, afternnon, night? I feel like it came out at like 5 pm est for WoL but I can't remember for the life of me as I remember getting home from school seeing that beta come out and don't recall it being out when I was at lunch at 2 pm est.
Given Jinro said in tl rising or some other interview that the wol beta came out very late for eu that would make sense (5pm est = 11 p.m. cest). I guess we'll see within the next couple hours whether it'll come out today.
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On September 05 2012 03:25 HowardRoark wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 03:12 Sabu113 wrote:
So much tweaking to do. Still extremely skeptical that the oracle will end up having much use beyond some gimmics. Without hte cloak ... it just doesn't add too much. The harass will be very early game centered and frankly the idea behind slowing mining rather than destroying actual mining outpiut is flawed. I can understand the thought process. This is a unique ability that /will/ affect mules heavily, but against zerg it looks like it will be almost worthless and it doesn't help you chip your way back into the game like a money reaver shot does (Nor frankly does it look very entertaining which is already a giant problem with WoL). Exactly, it does not look very entertaining at all and that is he problem with the Oracle. It will be a standard shift-click-click-click manoeuvre every single game to lock down minerals - OR - it won't be used, depending on tweaking. Either it will be used always or never, and since they will probably have to make it worthwhile if will be tweaked to be worth the cost.
Workers blowing up/Melting in a pool of blood >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Them sitting on their ass.
Also an AOE mining snare is less precise and therefore noobishly easy micro than landing a money helion line up shot (and wayyyy easier than a money reaver shot). I guess all the micro is in its movement? (Running away from corrupter/mutalisk or viking?)
I FORESEE the answer to Oracle harass for PvZ is going to be more DRONES DRONES DRONES DRONES cause they can even kill these tombs pretty efficiently, right?
#earlybetahotswoes 
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I remember the WOL came out around 22:00
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On September 05 2012 03:30 FliedLice wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 03:25 pebriniel wrote:On September 05 2012 03:19 pebriniel wrote:
Hi guys! (I use google translate, sorry for the English ...).
Can you explain how to open files on HotS map editor? I can not do absolutely not: \ :3 Don't quote your own stuff like that, it will get you warned/banned. :S
Oh ! ok ! :S
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k.. so i got it to work on Starcraft 2 editor.. I just need to now know how to make 2 opposite teams.. while being able to control both (like unit map tester)
anyone with quick reply?
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On September 05 2012 03:31 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 03:23 Brahoono wrote:On September 05 2012 03:19 SarcasmMonster wrote:
Instead of complaining about everything, I think we should ALL focus our complaining energies towards the Warhound instead of diluting our complaining efforts. Add the Tempest in there and lets start dem complains. On September 05 2012 03:20 Plansix wrote:On September 05 2012 03:13 Brahoono wrote:On September 05 2012 03:11 Plansix wrote:On September 05 2012 03:07 ShoWTimE94 wrote:On September 05 2012 03:04 SarcasmMonster wrote:On September 05 2012 02:55 imPermanenCe wrote:On September 05 2012 02:47 Za7oX wrote:On September 05 2012 02:36 roym899 wrote:
What I really hate about what we've seen yet, is the fact that they seem to make the skill ceilling even smaller. The new functions like auto rally and worker display just take away some things good players had in favor of them against worse players, now that this isn't there anymore the level in the bronze league for example will be so much higher now.
All of this is also the reason why the Kespa players where able to catch up so fast. You can reach the end of the skill ceiling pretty fast. And I think everyone in Master league could make it to GM level in 1 month of very hard training with a coach who will tell you your mistakes. im normaly on the side of "it's a newer game, ofc there will be interface improvements" but the worker counter seems abit too much. replay/observer onlyyyyyyyyy. From the man himself: On September 04 2012 18:12 MavercK wrote:On September 04 2012 18:09 Lineridarz wrote:
Well, now that you've told us, can you post instructions on how to do the same thing you did? maybe later, im not in the mood to write guides right now. in short. i extracted the hots mpqs. merged them into a sc2mod file. opened a map. added my new modfile as dependency. so worker count is ingame. not spectator only. i couldn't find the auto start mining option? also you can see the select army units icon. thats there in MP. may have something to do with the editor. i played hots at gamescom and there was no worker count. i doubt they changed it. I think we should take the word of the person who played the build of the game, rather than the image created through some vodoo using the client and some other nonsense. I mean, look at that UI, it is missing like 14 buttons. Thats the new noob UI where you dont get any more buttons. Also an option you can now turn on in the Hots client. Worker counting on townhalls is real and an option you can turn on or off. Wait, you are complaining about a UI they made for really bad players that are confused by lots of buttons that you will likely never use? Its like complaining that your sister gets training wheels on her bike, but you didn't. "She should just fall and get hurt like I did. Your making my sister weak." Wasn't compaining about that UI bro ~~ couldn't care less about that thing. Was just pointing out what it was. Poll: With your first impression, which unit do you dislike more?Warhound (92) 53% Neither (44) 25% Tempest (37) 21% 173 total votes Your vote: With your first impression, which unit do you dislike more? (Vote): Warhound
(Vote): Tempest
(Vote): Neither
Both units are fine to me, they just take a little getting used too. Im a terran player so im naturally going to dislike anything that could help toss or zerg but I mean it's always nice to have something new.
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Wait so does that mean protoss oracle is basicaly same as a Terrans orbital command centre? Do we get vision from the scans also?
edit: if its true.. next step is to give us mules.. plz..
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swarm host is more wrong than warhound. Warhound is an a-move unit and that's it. We already have many in the game and the game is still doing well. Adding another a-move unit is not a deal breaker. Swarm host is a broken game mechanic, which is called free movable spawning unit.
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On September 05 2012 03:36 larse wrote:
swarm host is more wrong than warhound. Warhound is an a-move unit and that's it. We already have many in the game and the game is still doing well. Adding another a-move unit is not a deal breaker. Swarm host is a broken game mechanic, which is called free movable spawning unit.
Absolutely is. Blizzard will add like 2-3 units per race and they have 1-2 years time for that. They might as well think of something better than a simple amove unit....
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On September 05 2012 03:36 larse wrote:
swarm host is more wrong than warhound. Warhound is an a-move unit and that's it. We already have many in the game and the game is still doing well. Adding another a-move unit is not a deal breaker. Swarm host is a broken game mechanic, which is called free movable spawning unit.
Trading the Swarm Host for a Siege Tank in an instant.
Abusing Highgrounds ans landing guaranteed damage seems better than "oh he has 5 Hellions, so my 8 Swarmhosts are useless"
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Well, I'm no pro, so I won't discuss balance, but... Ever since they've shared the first information about the multiplayer in HotS I had the feeling that the zerg got most useful and fun stuff, terran got some nice additions and protoss... well, basically everything besides Replicant and Mothership Core (structure) was "meh". Based on the latest information, I feel that protoss gets somewhat screwed in this expansion. I hope Blizz will balance it out somehow, but design wise... well, protoss are the only race that lost a unit and got the worst additions. That's just my feeling.
As for the beta - today or not today... I don't really care. Unless my friend gets a beta key and lets me play, I don't think I'll have a chance to play it. That said - I'm mostly looking forward to seeing some streams and how the game changes during beta, so... I'm not that hyped to be unable to last a few more days or weeks. That's why I take all of this only as a sign that beta is really, really close and whether it gets released today or later, doesn't really interest me, as long as I know it's coming.
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On September 05 2012 03:38 Brahoono wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 03:36 larse wrote:
swarm host is more wrong than warhound. Warhound is an a-move unit and that's it. We already have many in the game and the game is still doing well. Adding another a-move unit is not a deal breaker. Swarm host is a broken game mechanic, which is called free movable spawning unit. Absolutely is. Blizzard will add like 2-3 units per race and they have 1-2 years time for that. They might as well think of something better than a simple amove unit....
Amove units are very important to the game ;S Also you don't have to play them as amove units, you can kite, micro, spread them out, surround etc.
Even in Brood War Zerg had 3 100% amove units
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On September 05 2012 03:41 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 03:38 Brahoono wrote:On September 05 2012 03:36 larse wrote:
swarm host is more wrong than warhound. Warhound is an a-move unit and that's it. We already have many in the game and the game is still doing well. Adding another a-move unit is not a deal breaker. Swarm host is a broken game mechanic, which is called free movable spawning unit. Absolutely is. Blizzard will add like 2-3 units per race and they have 1-2 years time for that. They might as well think of something better than a simple amove unit.... Amove units are very important to the game ;S Also you don't have to play them as amove units, you can kite, micro, spread them out, surround etc. Even in Brood War Zerg had 3 100% amove units
I would rather have a few more NON Aoe A move units added like the immortal rather than having 3452452345 casters with AOE spells added.
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On September 05 2012 03:41 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 03:38 Brahoono wrote:On September 05 2012 03:36 larse wrote:
swarm host is more wrong than warhound. Warhound is an a-move unit and that's it. We already have many in the game and the game is still doing well. Adding another a-move unit is not a deal breaker. Swarm host is a broken game mechanic, which is called free movable spawning unit. Absolutely is. Blizzard will add like 2-3 units per race and they have 1-2 years time for that. They might as well think of something better than a simple amove unit.... Amove units are very important to the game ;S Also you don't have to play them as amove units, you can kite, micro, spread them out, surround etc. Even in Brood War Zerg had 3 100% amove units
The point is that they function really poorly when micro'd that way due to turning speed and acceleration. In BW these were irrelevant due to hold position fire canceling animations. Try microing hydras in BW and come back and do the same in SC2. You are better off a moving in SC2.
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Wait the last one with the probe building pylons what's bad about it or am I just not seeing it? Looks normal to me.
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EPT
