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On May 15 2012 01:25 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 00:13 phanto wrote:On May 14 2012 23:58 Incognoto wrote:
Fucking ridiculous. I'm not the kind of person to be offended but I find the topic immensely distasteful, it would be much better off closed. Then don't read it? That's not what they said to Destiny and Orb. This is genuinely racist as well, it's absurd. I'm going to stop here however, and not derail the thread. I don't have that right. Beg your pardons for posting here when I shouldn't have.
I kinda agree with you and I plan on staying a little longer just to see where it goes before I log out of it. I keep trying to put it away from biases though... i'll probably get flamed again for saying that though. I just think its more of a question of cultures changing attitudes on working out then actual genetics.
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On May 15 2012 01:12 HellRoxYa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 01:05 legendstormcrow wrote:On May 15 2012 00:58 TheToast wrote:On May 15 2012 00:50 Jinsho wrote:
Yeah, it's the typical kind of nonsense that they like printing. Pointing the finger at the women "hey look they want to be fat!". Pointing the finger at the author "hey look he said such a stupid thing!". Avoiding the finger that should be pointing at themselves "why do you print this rubbish?"
EDIT: and all of you who are earnestly discussing the article, you are committing the mistake of taking it as something that should be argued about. Is the author right and black women want to be fat? Is the author wrong and stupid? That is not the issue here, the issue is what does the NYTimes want you to think, and what do you think the people around you will think, and why you do not pause and think : why am I not questioning being fed this rubbish? What rubbish? Did you even read the article? The author is essentially arguing that the African American community has become complacent about the issue of obesity, even accepting obesity as a cultural norm. Her point is that obesity shortens life expectancy and places hugh pressure on the healthcare system; and that the issue needs to begin to be taken seriously. What about that is objectionable? It is a personal issue and isn't realy a "public issue." Also obesity isn't always the cause of the health issues. The problem is most of the time obesity is paired with inactivity. its like how every one blames tobacco for all the health problems though in fact it likely comes from the poisons they put in the cigarettes to burn slower and be perserved longer. Yep, you've totally convinced me. Tobacco is good for you.
What a way to misunderstand the issue.
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I didn't realize that the perception people have of themselves could antagonize blacks and whites so much. I mean every argument in this article tends to oppose black and white women. I think this kind of reasoning is highly unhealthy, more so than overweightness (if that's a word).
Also, if the movies I've seen on the subjet aren't utter garbage, isn't the cause of obesity in america mainly related to food habits (fast food, sugar food, etc) ?
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Coming from a black man that is part of a black family (super ghetto) and a white family (pretty chill), this is the dumbest shit I've ever read. The only black females that get fat are the ones who think their to good to work so they sit around and eat and sleep all day while their "man" does all the work.
The writer of that article should actually ask around to see what the issue is, not make a dumbass assumption because some black women have fat asses (nothing wrong with that of course  ) and some dont. holy fuck.
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On May 15 2012 01:34 Twinkle Toes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 01:12 HellRoxYa wrote:On May 15 2012 01:05 legendstormcrow wrote:On May 15 2012 00:58 TheToast wrote:On May 15 2012 00:50 Jinsho wrote:
Yeah, it's the typical kind of nonsense that they like printing. Pointing the finger at the women "hey look they want to be fat!". Pointing the finger at the author "hey look he said such a stupid thing!". Avoiding the finger that should be pointing at themselves "why do you print this rubbish?"
EDIT: and all of you who are earnestly discussing the article, you are committing the mistake of taking it as something that should be argued about. Is the author right and black women want to be fat? Is the author wrong and stupid? That is not the issue here, the issue is what does the NYTimes want you to think, and what do you think the people around you will think, and why you do not pause and think : why am I not questioning being fed this rubbish? What rubbish? Did you even read the article? The author is essentially arguing that the African American community has become complacent about the issue of obesity, even accepting obesity as a cultural norm. Her point is that obesity shortens life expectancy and places hugh pressure on the healthcare system; and that the issue needs to begin to be taken seriously. What about that is objectionable? It is a personal issue and isn't realy a "public issue." Also obesity isn't always the cause of the health issues. The problem is most of the time obesity is paired with inactivity. its like how every one blames tobacco for all the health problems though in fact it likely comes from the poisons they put in the cigarettes to burn slower and be perserved longer. Yep, you've totally convinced me. Tobacco is good for you. What a way to misunderstand the issue.
lol, Thanks. besides. I was just saying that they don't seem to have studied the actual tobacco itself and just the cigs. Also that the issues with fatness mostly come from inactivity witch often comes with people being fat. i was fat and active and I was a lot healthier then a year ago when I was just fat. That said getting sleep now made me a lot healthier. As for the diabetes I don't know if being fat caused that or if it is simply in my genetics. i wonder if the tested just fat people or high sugar intake people?
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erm...
what exactly is new in this article?
i remember being taught at school in the 80s, that in africa a black woman stands for wealth, its perhaps the same in every region/time where hunger crises are common.
and as the article said (and as many articles said before in the last 40 years), the blacks have yet to have their twiggy.
old facts rewarmed. boring.
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On May 15 2012 01:35 Elitios wrote:
I didn't realize that the perception people have of themselves could antagonize blacks and whites so much. I mean every argument in this article tends to oppose black and white women. I think this kind of reasoning is highly unhealthy, more so than overweightness (if that's a word).
Also, if the movies I've seen on the subjet aren't utter garbage, isn't the cause of obesity in america mainly related to food habits (fast food, sugar food, etc) ?
I was actually trying to compare the 3 main races here, black, white, and hispanic. Also the obesity in america is due to inactivity. I used to not eat hardly anything when I first became over weight. Food is just 1 out of 3 or 4 major factors.
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If anything article should be titled "Why American black women are fat".
Because all the black women I have seen myself in europe where not fat at all, the black African women you see on TV are not fat either.
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On May 15 2012 01:41 Redox wrote:
If anything article should be titled "Why American black women are fat".
Because all the black women I have seen myself in europe where not fat at all, the black African women you see on TV are not fat either.
True.
And in some ways that's a good point about the article. Such high obesity rates are not seen among people of African decent in Europe, so clearly culture is a big factor in the obesity 'epidemic'. And that's precisely the point the author is trying to make.
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On May 15 2012 01:10 Robinsa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 00:14 legendstormcrow wrote:On May 15 2012 00:11 Kasu wrote:On May 14 2012 23:32 legendstormcrow wrote:On May 14 2012 23:29 solidbebe wrote:On May 14 2012 23:24 legendstormcrow wrote:On May 14 2012 23:20 nymfaw wrote:On May 14 2012 23:11 AgentChaos wrote:
arent everyone in america fat? but you are from United Kingdom so I guess you all have something in common, hurray for u We are fat becuase we have good dentists, Lol. Some British guy the other day said over the radio basically that your free dental is the same "free dental" inmates get. REMOVE DEM ALL! 1 more thing. Even fit people are considered fat becuase muscle puts them over the indexes for being obese. Me? I call mine natural body armor and it serves me better then the lowgrade kevlar I put up with. I didn't understand a single word of this  British dental sucks causing bad teeth becuase they just remove teeth like in prison. Also fat is more effective then thrust vests with low grade kevlar becuase fat covers more and you can't just jab below fat. Actually http://www.economist.com/node/15060097?subjectid=7933596&story_id=15060097Britain has the best teeth in the world (health-wise) according to this study. We just don't have the same association between perfect white teeth and beauty that makes teeth a bigger deal in the US. Now I have been corrected. Still I doubt your dental would cover all the cosmetics they do here. Well at least you won't have renegade dentists who cap a kids entire mouth a week before they start to fall out. That was torture and all these years later I only have 1 left and I suspect its quality.. GB sounds a bit better now lolz. Dude.. its not like you cant get it if you want. Its just not free. You can get ANYTHING youre able to get at the US dentist at the UK one, except a lot of the options are free in the UK. I cant understand how people like you are naive enough to belive that a public dentist would remove all your teeth. No wonder you'll never get public health care over there. ^^
It's just these stupid stereotypes that run rampant around the world. People, on average, don't go out to see the rest of the world to know better. All US citizens are fat, all French people don't shower, all English people have bad teeth. Except through my Ex, I've went to France and met French people. They definitely shower. She came here and saw the States and told me she was surprised about how overstated the fatness issue is. Is that to say that obesity in the US isn't an issue? No, far from it, but people like to make caricatures of cultures they don't know and remain ignorant about it. =\
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On May 15 2012 01:41 Redox wrote:
If anything article should be titled "Why American black women are fat".
Because all the black women I have seen myself in europe where not fat at all, the black African women you see on TV are not fat either.
We are trying to avoid biases lolz. My brother in law is not fat and hes so skinny joined the army and they had to fatten him up.
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I feel as though it all comes down to the same thing. Excuses. Fat whites make them, fat asians make them, fat blacks make them. In general, people who are fat tend to blame something other than "I don't value my health enough to diet and exercise", and this article is just another list of possible excuses for fat black women.
So they are several orders of magnitude more likely to be fat and make those excuses than whites... oh well. Culture of excuse making and messed up values.
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When wading through such an extensive pile of shit as this, it's refreshing to come across a few intelligent posts. I figured I'd collect them all in one place:
On May 14 2012 23:56 imallinson wrote:The article is an opinion piece backed up by anecdotal evidence and thus is kind of worthless. If you look at actual studies the largest factor by far in rates of obesity is income ( source). This is mainly due to the cheapest food per calorie being exeptionally unhealthy ( source). Given that there is still a lot of income inequality in black communities in the US it is a reasonable conclusion that poverty not a cultural norm is responsible for high obesity rates.
+100 points for being the first reasonable post in this thread. It only took 4 pages!
On May 14 2012 23:53 unteqair wrote:
It is true, but only because blacks tend to grow up in environments that don't foster the skills that iq tests measure. It's nothing genetic; there is more genetic variation within races than between. And it's not even a causal relationship, the whole iq obesity thing, I mean. You don't need to be adjusted to solving puzzles to figure out what happens when you eat a lot of junk.
+50 points for pointing out a very true and interesting fact (re: genetic variation within/between races). You lost points, however, for your erroneous analysis of IQ. There are mountains of evidence showing that IQ is, largely, heritable. Adopted siblings brought up in the same household will have disparate IQs, while identical twins separated at birth will still have similar IQs, etc. For more info, check out Steven Pinker's book The Blank Slate.
On May 15 2012 00:15 KazeHydra wrote:
It means that the genetics differ more within the same race (say, Chinese) than if you compared 2 races. The idea is that overall, races' genetics will average out to be more or less the same whereas genetics within the same race can be quite diverse. Don't be deceived by how different people of races can look as this is a very poor indicator of genetic similarity.
+90 points for being 100% correct in your analysis and then coming to a responsible conclusion.
On May 15 2012 01:05 narkissos wrote:Of course there are http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence#Validity_of_.22race.22_and_.22IQ.22 you should not spread lies, misinformation and call those more informed than yourself for ignorant solely based on your political beliefs. What causes the discrepancy is however disputed and there are a range of theories, check the link if you are interested. As for the purpose of the thread I don´t really see what "new appraoch to obesity problem among blacks"she uses. Exercise and changing her families diet is hardly revolutionary? Starting exercise classes for others is of course a good thing. Specifically targeting black obese people instead of just obese people on the other hand come across as bit strange to me, I´m however not an american and this might bee the norm there? As for the reasons for high obesity rates among blacks I would assume that SE factors play a large part. Sadly bad food are usually cheap food which not only means that poor are more likely to buy bad food but also that people descendant from poor people might carry with them a bad food culture even if their economic situation has improved. Most black people in the US for obvious reasons are descendants from lower classes. This however is pure speculation on my part.
+90 points for being intelligent enough to look up information rather than simply speculate, and to admit it when you do get around to speculating.
If I left your "intelligent" post out, it's probably because it was (a) completely off-topic, (b) intelligent but mostly a flame, or (c) unintelligent and full of speculation and personal anecdotes.
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On May 15 2012 00:51 Tippecanoe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 00:11 Kasu wrote:On May 14 2012 23:32 legendstormcrow wrote:On May 14 2012 23:29 solidbebe wrote:On May 14 2012 23:24 legendstormcrow wrote:On May 14 2012 23:20 nymfaw wrote:On May 14 2012 23:11 AgentChaos wrote:
arent everyone in america fat? but you are from United Kingdom so I guess you all have something in common, hurray for u We are fat becuase we have good dentists, Lol. Some British guy the other day said over the radio basically that your free dental is the same "free dental" inmates get. REMOVE DEM ALL! 1 more thing. Even fit people are considered fat becuase muscle puts them over the indexes for being obese. Me? I call mine natural body armor and it serves me better then the lowgrade kevlar I put up with. I didn't understand a single word of this British dental sucks causing bad teeth becuase they just remove teeth like in prison. Also fat is more effective then thrust vests with low grade kevlar becuase fat covers more and you can't just jab below fat. Actually http://www.economist.com/node/15060097?subjectid=7933596&story_id=15060097Britain has the best teeth in the world (health-wise) according to this study. We just don't have the same association between perfect white teeth and beauty that makes teeth a bigger deal in the US. That's between 12 year olds in 2009.
Actually 2006, it says it right on the graphic. And yes, its a limited sample, but its unlikely to be that poor an indicator of overall dental health - 12 year olds use the same infrastructure as everyone else, are spread across the same demographics etc.
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On May 14 2012 23:08 arbitrageur wrote:
What non-sense.
Black people have a lower mean iq and are less educated on average. Education and IQ have a demonstrated positive correlation with obesity. This is the only evidenced link between being a black woman and being obese. I could formulate it statistically but I really can't be bothered.
If this was true, africa, india, and the middle east would have an obesity problem. They don't.
http://www.studentsoftheworld.info/infopays/rank/PNBH2.html
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On May 15 2012 01:43 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 01:10 Robinsa wrote:On May 15 2012 00:14 legendstormcrow wrote:On May 15 2012 00:11 Kasu wrote:On May 14 2012 23:32 legendstormcrow wrote:On May 14 2012 23:29 solidbebe wrote:On May 14 2012 23:24 legendstormcrow wrote:On May 14 2012 23:20 nymfaw wrote:On May 14 2012 23:11 AgentChaos wrote:
arent everyone in america fat? but you are from United Kingdom so I guess you all have something in common, hurray for u We are fat becuase we have good dentists, Lol. Some British guy the other day said over the radio basically that your free dental is the same "free dental" inmates get. REMOVE DEM ALL! 1 more thing. Even fit people are considered fat becuase muscle puts them over the indexes for being obese. Me? I call mine natural body armor and it serves me better then the lowgrade kevlar I put up with. I didn't understand a single word of this British dental sucks causing bad teeth becuase they just remove teeth like in prison. Also fat is more effective then thrust vests with low grade kevlar becuase fat covers more and you can't just jab below fat. Actually http://www.economist.com/node/15060097?subjectid=7933596&story_id=15060097Britain has the best teeth in the world (health-wise) according to this study. We just don't have the same association between perfect white teeth and beauty that makes teeth a bigger deal in the US. Now I have been corrected. Still I doubt your dental would cover all the cosmetics they do here. Well at least you won't have renegade dentists who cap a kids entire mouth a week before they start to fall out. That was torture and all these years later I only have 1 left and I suspect its quality.. GB sounds a bit better now lolz. Dude.. its not like you cant get it if you want. Its just not free. You can get ANYTHING youre able to get at the US dentist at the UK one, except a lot of the options are free in the UK. I cant understand how people like you are naive enough to belive that a public dentist would remove all your teeth. No wonder you'll never get public health care over there. ^^ It's just these stupid stereotypes that run rampant around the world. People, on average, don't go out to see the rest of the world to know better. All US citizens are fat, all French people don't shower, all English people have bad teeth. Except through my Ex, I've went to France and met French people. They definitely shower. She came here and saw the States and told me she was surprised about how overstated the fatness issue is. Is that to say that obesity in the US isn't an issue? No, far from it, but people like to make caricatures of cultures they don't know and remain ignorant about it. =\
Thats why I brought it up. To learn. If you read back I retracted that. Also they say that the french don't shave thier armpits more then the showering. Do they? I don't care. The shower thing probably came from the dark ages when they thought they'd die of disease if they did. and also if the british had bad dentists that doesn't necesarily mean they all have bad teeth.
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On May 15 2012 01:45 Crushgroove wrote:
I feel as though it all comes down to the same thing. Excuses. Fat whites make them, fat asians make them, fat blacks make them. In general, people who are fat tend to blame something other than "I don't value my health enough to diet and exercise", and this article is just another list of possible excuses for fat black women.
So they are several orders of magnitude more likely to be fat and make those excuses than whites... oh well. Culture of excuse making and messed up values.
I mostly make up excuses as a joke and to shut up my family. i'm really not too bad. Just a bit of a gut and I've lost a lot of it.
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On May 14 2012 23:24 legendstormcrow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2012 23:20 nymfaw wrote:On May 14 2012 23:11 AgentChaos wrote:
arent everyone in america fat? but you are from United Kingdom so I guess you all have something in common, hurray for u We are fat becuase we have good dentists, Lol. Some British guy the other day said over the radio basically that your free dental is the same "free dental" inmates get. REMOVE DEM ALL! 1 more thing. Even fit people are considered fat becuase muscle puts them over the indexes for being obese. Me? I call mine natural body armor and it serves me better then the lowgrade kevlar I put up with.
That is incorrect, a fit person should have low/lower body fat, therefore he should not be 'over the indexes', unless he is some hardcore bodybuilder, in that case a more accurate way would be to measure body fat percentage, I'm pretty sure the person measuring your BMI wouldn't be autistic enough to proclaim you are fat despite a healthy bf percentage.
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all French people don't shower
Where does that comes from? Never heard that one before ^^
Also I don't see the point you are trying to make legendstormcrow. What difference does it make if you add hispanic? I don't see how it makes this reasoning less dangerous.
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A lot of people are keen to reduce this issue to a single variable - poverty. But its not that simple. Obesity rates in most US states are around 30% (yes even on the East Coast) and poverty rates are more like 15%. Absolutely poverty has a huge role to play but obesity has exploded over the last 15 years, poverty rates have not. obesity in US http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States Unfortunately social problems are rarely simple and culture almost always has a role to play.
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EPT
