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Keep this civil, guys |
On May 05 2012 01:20 jemoijemoi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 01:15 Mohdoo wrote:On May 05 2012 01:13 Tektos wrote:
Biting the hand that feeds you. These companies insert money into the community... complaining to them ruins it for everyone as a whole in order to push your own political/social ideologies.
If you have a problem with a person's behavior take it up with the person themselves or their team, not the fucking sponsors.
Thank you for literally killing e-sports. By eliminating people like Destiny, we're helping e-sports. People like Destiny put forth a horrendous image to the outside world. Don't forget that plenty of events, such as DH and MLG, have already been featured on public television. e-sports isn't some underground operation like the FGC has. We're growing and becoming more exposed to the outside world. Destiny was a liability. No you are not.You're only killing sc2.The outside world wants to see internet type of entertainment aka bm. 'Destiny was a liability' the only liability is you for transforming sc2 in an irrelevant esport with little ratings
At least in my country you don't see people of other sports publicly insulting or calling each other names. If that happens, and it surely does, it's off cameras. When it happens, which is rare, it's very bad for their image, because they come off as bad mannered people, which only hurts them, and for sure doesn't help any point they're trying to make. We live in society, a minimum respect for each other, specially publicly for those that are public role model figures, is important. Otherwise this would be a jungle. I don't get how people can't think the same in this case.
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This makes me sad. I hope the community stops with these witch-hunts. There are better ways to encourage professionalism than to mass e-mail sponsors.
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On May 05 2012 01:26 Xswordy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 16:01 SimDawg wrote:On May 04 2012 15:58 MHT wrote:
Were about to kill ourselves guys, just stop it with these witchhunts. Or people could stop saying nigger as a pejorative. Why is it the communities problem? SC2 is going mainstream people. We are going to need to clear the up gaming culture. These are the growing pains. With a community like this it isn't going anywhere. Luckily TL is only a minor part of the SC community.
No fucking kidding.
Major OGN announcement? Barely any views.
One dude says something incredibly fucking stupid on his stream. OH GOD EVERYONE QUICK! THIS IS IMPORTANT.
Yes I know drama sells more than actual interesting things, but damn man, that was just so sad to see.
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Props to Destiny, sorry to see this happen because some people can't man the fuck up
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It makes me glad to see that this community doesn't tolerate the use of racial slurs and other types of hate speech. The last thing that we need to be doing is supporting someone who does use it.
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I'm sort of curious, are people who emailed the sponsors happy with the result? Destiny will not change and will still use similar language and will be back in 30 days. Quantic loses a popular player. Razer is now wary of the dangers of being involved in eSports. (I think I might've been a bit biased in my judgement of what happen, feel free to add your own spin).
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On May 05 2012 01:26 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 01:25 Klondikebar wrote:On May 05 2012 01:23 Shiori wrote:On May 05 2012 01:17 FairForever wrote:On May 05 2012 01:15 Shiori wrote:On May 05 2012 01:13 Mohdoo wrote:On May 05 2012 01:11 skrzmark wrote:On May 05 2012 01:08 FairForever wrote:On May 05 2012 01:05 skrzmark wrote:On May 05 2012 01:00 BlueLanterna wrote:
[quote]
Lol you really expect people to have nothing to say about members of their community using hateful language? Please. Yes, they shouldn't. It shouldn't even be called "hateful language" that's modern language. The reason why he has his viewers is because HIS viewers like his trolling, racism, and demeanor. Did you read his stream description? He warned people that they might get offended by that. Its like when a play has a sign "may have explicit scenes" and then their parents bring their children to the play anyways then complain about it afterwards. It's his stream, you're right, he can do what he wants, but he also has to accept the consequences for said actions. That is, people may complain (and they have a right to). And if TL decides that racist remarks on his stream aren't acceptable and aren't representative of the community that TL wants to build, they can delist him from their streams. okay, but now that he's off the team, I hope no one gives two shits about what he says. If anyone should care it should be Own3d.tv but they haven't done anything yet, maybe they like the viewers he brings in? It was a big deal before because he was basically a disgrace to the community by being a sponsored player, sharing a team with Naniwa and SaSe. At this point, he's just another flamer. I don't think anyone will pay him any mind at this point. He's become irrelevant. I believe he has the right to stream whatever he wants, but when you have sponsors, shit changes. I believe a sponsor-less lifestyle is the best for Destiny. Again with this "disgrace to the community" bullshit. I don't feel like he's a disgrace. Nor do a whole shitload of people both on this forum and on others. Does that make us somehow not part of the community? There are also people that believe the KKK is a good organization, but socially racist language isn't typically accepted. Don't you think being unfazed by the use of the word 'gook' versus seeing it as a hate crime is a little different than being a KKK-apologist versus thinking everyone deserves equal rights? It's not "typically" accepted because there are always going to be blow-hards who make a big fuss. Look at when some rather sensible Americans opted to build a Mosque somewhere near the WTC ground zero. There was such an uproar from a minuscule part of the nation that any foreigner (and I am one) would have thought that the entire nation was against it, despite most people being ultimately supportive or indifferent in actual fact. Similarly, just because every time someone says something "offensive" and it makes the news and there's a big uproar, it doesn't mean people all over the world care; it just means that the people who do care are very loud. There were enough people who cared to make Razer get involved. There were enough people who cared to make EG take action. It's not just a "vocal minority." A significant portion of the community does not approve of this behavior. Since when were minorities insignificant? I didn't mean to suggest they were (it would smack of puns and irony for the opponents of hate speech to argue this, though). I just want to clear up this business of Destiny being ousted by "the community" qua community. He was ousted by a fragment, significant or otherwise, and almost certainly not the majority. I don't wish to be lumped in with the people who complain to sponsors when they hear something they don't like from a player they have no stake in. And, with respect, you have no credibility whatsoever if you think being sympathetic to the KKK implies the same attitude toward minorities as thinking use of the word 'gook' is forgivable. That's biting the bullet if I ever saw it, though, so grats on having some balls.
Believe me Shiori, no one is going to identify you with the people who express outrage at bigoted behavior. You're safe.
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Destiny is streaming from his own place and he's talking like he would talk in his own house, its just that many people can see him. People are offended by the shit he says in his own place? There's things that people would say in their own homes but wouldn't say outside of their homes. Seriously its just standard stuff.
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On May 05 2012 01:22 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 01:15 gotnerd wrote:On May 05 2012 01:10 Mohdoo wrote:On May 05 2012 01:05 skrzmark wrote:On May 05 2012 01:00 BlueLanterna wrote:On May 05 2012 00:58 skrzmark wrote:
It's Destiny's stream he can say whatever he wants to say. If you don't like it don't watch it! Instead you all whined like little bitches. Its like trying a certain food for the first time if you dislike the taste you're most likely not going to try it again. If you don't like the stream don't watch it again. But the fact is you watch the stream because of the words and terms he says. Lol you really expect people to have nothing to say about members of their community using hateful language? Please. Yes, they shouldn't. It shouldn't even be called "hateful language" that's modern language. The reason why he has his viewers is because HIS viewers like his trolling, racism, and demeanor. Did you read his stream description? He warned people that they might get offended by that. Its like when a play has a sign "may have explicit scenes" and then their parents bring their children to the play anyways then complain about it afterwards. If you were to poll the united states, what % of individuals do you think would classify gook as a hateful term? It doesn't matter that its his own stream, he was representing a team. He had logos and crap all over his stream. By doing so, he became accountable to other people. He was not independent. Now he is. I'll agree with that, when in representation of a team, sponsors, and anyone else he should be held accountable, and he should have just apologized over the situation, however, regardless of sponsors or a team, the offended should have simply said I'm offended, destiny makes public apology, and whole ordeal is over, not apologizing was very childish and unprofessional yes, but he was streaming, he was not in a professional surrounding, and that's why my original post was said of who the hell cares. When you work for a company as a player, what you do as a player is a professional event. He was paid by sponsors to do what he was doing at the time of using racial slurs. Its not like he normally goes into an office to do his work stuff, then goes home for personal time. His gaming was his job and was his tie to sponsors. That time is when he used the racial slurs. Its appropriate to treat the event as a professional event. Razer's logo was just sitting right there as he was saying this stuff.
You're saying if a professional baseball player wearing a pepsi shirt (mind you he's not on the field playing baseball) were to go out in public and use racist terms against someone then pepsi, a sponsor of baseball, which in turn pays the player, should be in the same boat as razer was for this incident? See what I'm getting at here? The team doesn't pay him to stream they pay him for tournament outcomes. Therefore it being HIS stream, means he can do what he pleases.
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I dont see what people are angry about????
destiny used racist slurs --> people emailed sponsors about it, who apparently have 0 tolerance for racism for their
image and etc. ---> quantic is informed and tells destiny not to do it . ---> destiny says "fuck it, no apologies im leaving
bye~ if u people are angry about destiny leaving quantic it was his choice and his choice of words that resulted all this,
hes the only one to blame.
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This community is going downhill fast, a bunch of fucking crybabies. I'm glad I don't play this game anymore.
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Fuck you internet hate-machine. Reddit and TL are beginning to resemble the comments section of YouTube. I don't like Reddit, never have, but as much as everyone bags it and for good reason (I think), every second post on TL is just a copy/paste of a Reddit thread.
Where is all the vitriol and ignorance pouring from? Have people become so depressingly stupid and conceited?
I remember the halcyon days of 2002/3 (before I forgot my TL login details and SC for that matter) when people liked the game not the daytime soap-opera we have today. The whole eSports bubble is feeding off its own pretentiousness and while I love the idea and wish it were so, it cannot happen with such a moronic supporter base and such a fractious business model with no direction or control. We fucked it up people and when the bubble bursts lets hope the shit that lands isn't so deep that we can't try again in SC3 for fear of the stink that will drive the grown ups with their money and their company's away.
Hopefully KeSPA will keep the Korean scene alive enough for those who remain after the vultures have had their fill and moved on to the next internet fad.
TLDR
The sky is falling, you are all to blame, fuck eSports.
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On May 05 2012 01:28 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 01:26 Shiori wrote:On May 05 2012 01:25 Klondikebar wrote:On May 05 2012 01:23 Shiori wrote:On May 05 2012 01:17 FairForever wrote:On May 05 2012 01:15 Shiori wrote:On May 05 2012 01:13 Mohdoo wrote:On May 05 2012 01:11 skrzmark wrote:On May 05 2012 01:08 FairForever wrote:On May 05 2012 01:05 skrzmark wrote:
[quote]
Yes, they shouldn't. It shouldn't even be called "hateful language" that's modern language. The reason why he has his viewers is because HIS viewers like his trolling, racism, and demeanor. Did you read his stream description? He warned people that they might get offended by that. Its like when a play has a sign "may have explicit scenes" and then their parents bring their children to the play anyways then complain about it afterwards. It's his stream, you're right, he can do what he wants, but he also has to accept the consequences for said actions. That is, people may complain (and they have a right to). And if TL decides that racist remarks on his stream aren't acceptable and aren't representative of the community that TL wants to build, they can delist him from their streams. okay, but now that he's off the team, I hope no one gives two shits about what he says. If anyone should care it should be Own3d.tv but they haven't done anything yet, maybe they like the viewers he brings in? It was a big deal before because he was basically a disgrace to the community by being a sponsored player, sharing a team with Naniwa and SaSe. At this point, he's just another flamer. I don't think anyone will pay him any mind at this point. He's become irrelevant. I believe he has the right to stream whatever he wants, but when you have sponsors, shit changes. I believe a sponsor-less lifestyle is the best for Destiny. Again with this "disgrace to the community" bullshit. I don't feel like he's a disgrace. Nor do a whole shitload of people both on this forum and on others. Does that make us somehow not part of the community? There are also people that believe the KKK is a good organization, but socially racist language isn't typically accepted. Don't you think being unfazed by the use of the word 'gook' versus seeing it as a hate crime is a little different than being a KKK-apologist versus thinking everyone deserves equal rights? It's not "typically" accepted because there are always going to be blow-hards who make a big fuss. Look at when some rather sensible Americans opted to build a Mosque somewhere near the WTC ground zero. There was such an uproar from a minuscule part of the nation that any foreigner (and I am one) would have thought that the entire nation was against it, despite most people being ultimately supportive or indifferent in actual fact. Similarly, just because every time someone says something "offensive" and it makes the news and there's a big uproar, it doesn't mean people all over the world care; it just means that the people who do care are very loud. There were enough people who cared to make Razer get involved. There were enough people who cared to make EG take action. It's not just a "vocal minority." A significant portion of the community does not approve of this behavior. Since when were minorities insignificant? I didn't mean to suggest they were (it would smack of puns and irony for the opponents of hate speech to argue this, though). I just want to clear up this business of Destiny being ousted by "the community" qua community. He was ousted by a fragment, significant or otherwise, and almost certainly not the majority. I don't wish to be lumped in with the people who complain to sponsors when they hear something they don't like from a player they have no stake in. And, with respect, you have no credibility whatsoever if you think being sympathetic to the KKK implies the same attitude toward minorities as thinking use of the word 'gook' is forgivable. That's biting the bullet if I ever saw it, though, so grats on having some balls. Believe me Shiori, no one is going to identify you with the people who express outrage at bigoted behavior. You're safe.
Oh, really? I guess all my real-life protests so that gay people will be allowed to marry and so that women will receive equal pay for equal work are for naught, because according to you my true personality is one that hates minorities. Please, spare me. I'd rather be known for standing up to actual bigotry, than assuaging my conscience by crusading against the proverbial army of cloudy teacups.
I'm not sure how you move from my position, which is that Destiny's words, while crude, are hardly indicative of deep-seated racism, to the view that I love racists, or that I should be equivalent to people who do. Just silly.
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Now I know why I thought he did not stream for the last 2 days 
Good luck to him and is only a temporary ban.
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On May 05 2012 01:28 LiamTheZerg wrote:
Props to Destiny, sorry to see this happen because some people can't man the fuck up
So being a man means insulting and cursing as part of one's routine? ah good old testosterone. All about agressiveness, nothing about respect. No wonder we humans spent our lives fighting aggainst each other all the time.
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So nobody cared when Orb does it but when Destiny does it there is over 75 pages like 2 minutes. How is that fair?
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On May 05 2012 01:23 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 01:20 jemoijemoi wrote:On May 05 2012 01:15 Mohdoo wrote:On May 05 2012 01:13 Tektos wrote:
Biting the hand that feeds you. These companies insert money into the community... complaining to them ruins it for everyone as a whole in order to push your own political/social ideologies.
If you have a problem with a person's behavior take it up with the person themselves or their team, not the fucking sponsors.
Thank you for literally killing e-sports. By eliminating people like Destiny, we're helping e-sports. People like Destiny put forth a horrendous image to the outside world. Don't forget that plenty of events, such as DH and MLG, have already been featured on public television. e-sports isn't some underground operation like the FGC has. We're growing and becoming more exposed to the outside world. Destiny was a liability. No you are not.You're only killing sc2.The outside world wants to see internet type of entertainment aka bm. 'Destiny was a liability' the only liability is you for transforming sc2 in an irrelevant esport with little ratings How many TV shows do you tune into with a guy insulting someone else by calling them a gook? How many times do you see a news reporter jokingly call someone a gook?
I've seen countless proathlethes who get payd millons of dollars comit crimes and being supported by multibillion dollar teams/corporations
Kobe Bryant-rape accusatins-suppored by the Lakers
Van Persie-jail-supported by Arsenal
Muhammmad Ali-usage of the n word+trash talk+uncle tom-greatest hevyweight of all time
Countles athlethes such as Pele,Maradona,Zidane,CR7,Matterazi who are watched by billions of people got into fights on the field and had verbal altercations in the media.And that's just the ones I know.
But a couple of viewers who can't stand a popular player get him banned.Makes you wonder why ssc2 shrinks instead of growing
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On May 05 2012 01:30 BBQSAC wrote:
Fuck you internet hate-machine. Reddit and TL are beginning to resemble the comments section of YouTube. I don't like Reddit, never have, but as much as everyone bags it and for good reason (I think), every second post on TL is just a copy/paste of a Reddit thread.
Where is all the vitriol and ignorance pouring from? Have people become so depressingly stupid and conceited?
I remember the halcyon days of 2002/3 (before I forgot my TL login details and SC for that matter) when people liked the game not the daytime soap-opera we have today. The whole eSports bubble is feeding off its own pretentiousness and while I love the idea and wish it were so, it cannot happen with such a moronic supporter base and such a fractious business model with no direction or control. We fucked it up people and when the bubble bursts lets hope the shit that lands isn't so deep that we can't try again in SC3 for fear of the stink that will drive the grown ups with their money and their company's away.
Hopefully KeSPA will keep the Korean scene alive enough for those who remain after the vultures have had their fill and moved on to the next internet fad.
TLDR
The sky is falling, you are all to blame, fuck eSports.
Sorry, this drama won't even be a footnote in the history of SC2 esports and esports in general. It makes you feel good to make ridiculous pronouncements like this like so many other people are doing, fine, but it has no basis in reality.
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On May 05 2012 01:28 Andrew2658 wrote:
It makes me glad to see that this community doesn't tolerate the use of racial slurs and other types of hate speech. The last thing that we need to be doing is supporting someone who does use it.
People are free to support what they want and if you don't want to support destiny thats fine but no one should go and run to the sponsors which have no control over destiny and try to ruin a team in the process.
The sponsors are there to fund and support the TEAM (destiny is a player, not the team). If you have an issue with the way a player is acting then take it to the team owner/team manager (aka the people who actually deal with these issues), dont bypass the "complaint hierarchy" and go straight to the top because that's not the way to go about handling this situation.
People who did that gave Quantic no time to address the situation or do anything and now they have Razer and other sponsors possibly reconsidering their decision to sponsor the team because some random asshole decided to take matters into his own hands. People talk about "killing eSports" all the time but I dont think they realize the people who do this kind of garbage are the worst offenders.
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On May 05 2012 01:32 hanlonbro wrote:
So nobody cared when Orb does it but when Destiny does it there is over 75 pages like 2 minutes. How is that fair?
Yeah I was wondering why the double standard for destiny .
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EPT
