|
Keep this civil, guys |
On May 05 2012 21:05 Xenocide_EU wrote:
I know teamliquid forums are heavy moderated, but cant leave it to just say:
sorry, but this is f***ng ret***ded. Are you people some kind of medieval lynch mob?
At times this community is pretty full on. You may not agree with the way Destiny was ousted, but make no mistake, if E-Sports is to make it 'big' then language like this cannot be tolerated.
What any random player does on ladder I couldn't care less about. However when that ladder player is sponsored by the same team that sponsors the current top foreigner, well then I have an interest.
Kids may get a kick out of Destiny's antics. But adults earn the cash and pay the sponsors bills. And the majority of adults know this kind of language is wrong and won't support someone, or a team, or a sport that tolerates it.
I hate to use the tired old 'for E-sports' canard, but that's really how it is. Of course if you don't want to see it grow, then by all means let Destiny do as he likes. But in 5-7 years, when you're fully grown and working in the real world and a little ashamed to tell your colleagues about this awesome sport you support because of all the racist, sexist, homophobic language rife within it's community, you'll realise what growing pains E-Sports needed to go through to make it big.
|
On May 05 2012 17:49 Vaelone wrote:
In professional football(soccer) you get banned from matches for x games and lose all your salary for that time and possibly get an additional fine and go to the court, theres pretty much zero tolerance for racism in real sports today. Although the money isn't a big punishment for players that make millions anyway but missing out on important matches is actually a big deal for most. Look up John Terry and Luis Suarez as more recent cases.
However I think that a punishment or leaving the team was not necessary in this case, however he would have had to both apogolize and make sure it doesn't happen again but issue here is that apparently this was impossible for him and to make it worse he rather just poured more oil in the fire so due to that this was the only possible outcome.
As long as Destiny doesn't carry the tag of a professional sponsored team he can do whatever he pleases without any real reason for community outrage and by being a even bigger moron he probably gets even more classy and mature viewers and makes good money so good for him. But being in a professional team comes with some basic responsibilities that the remaining pros seem to be able to follow fairly well.
Well a ridiculous and pathetic case and I wish I never witnessed it and I hate myself a little for adding to the post count of this thread. Probably a good reference in the future for the I hate e-sports part of the community if nothing else though.
This is only one way of looking at it.
I don't think a private stream (even when it has sponsers on it) is the same as being a racist on public television.
Also the rules for sportsman (soccer) are very clear, and are stated (probably) in their contracts.
In this case the rules are not very clearly, is it a private stream, or is it a professional stream?
Also does razor wants to link their brand to professionals, or do they just want to show commercials to anyone who watches?
Are there specific rules about language razor applies when they offer sponsership?
we all don't know the answer to these questions, so it's no point writing to the sponsors.
The only rule i see when i go to his stream, is that it shows EXPLICITLY that it contains foul language.
What else do you expect?
|
On May 05 2012 22:07 BoxingKangaroo wrote:
Of course if you don't want to see it grow, then by all means let Destiny do as he likes.
'Esports', whatever that means anymore, has been doing just fine without community-damaging events like this. Personally, I don't care about 'Esports', or some mystical future where everyone will be rich and all games are high level with Boxer as king, because it doesn't mean anything now. It's some sort of vague, hopeful speculation, screamed out as justification for anything.
I'd rather have a community that actually cares about Starcraft.
|
On May 05 2012 22:07 BoxingKangaroo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 21:05 Xenocide_EU wrote:
I know teamliquid forums are heavy moderated, but cant leave it to just say:
sorry, but this is f***ng ret***ded. Are you people some kind of medieval lynch mob? At times this community is pretty full on. You may not agree with the way Destiny was ousted, but make no mistake, if E-Sports is to make it 'big' then language like this cannot be tolerated. What any random player does on ladder I couldn't care less about. However when that ladder player is sponsored by the same team that sponsors the current top foreigner, well then I have an interest. Kids may get a kick out of Destiny's antics. But adults earn the cash and pay the sponsors bills. And the majority of adults know this kind of language is wrong and won't support someone, or a team, or a sport that tolerates it. I hate to use the tired old 'for E-sports' canard, but that's really how it is. Of course if you don't want to see it grow, then by all means let Destiny do as he likes. But in 5-7 years, when you're fully grown and working in the real world and a little ashamed to tell your colleagues about this awesome sport you support because of all the racist, sexist, homophobic language rife within it's community, you'll realise what growing pains E-Sports needed to go through to make it big.
I think it's not part of razers policy to not sponsor people who uses foul language or racial slurs.
And if it is part of razers policy, then there is no debate at all.
I think razer sponsers the gaming community whatever it is, because the gaming community buys there stuff.
They don't need to choose the moral highground, because it does not earn more bucks.
So the discussion is only based on the question, does razer wants to show their brand to as many gamers as possible or do they really have an opinion about the content of the stream?
and if they have an opinion about the content of the stream, why the F*ck don't they make it explicit in their contracts?
|
esports is never gonna be big because of witchhunts. Unfortunately esports has tried to get big around the time internet trolling has been a phenomenon. Unfortuantely taht means esports will never make it big.
|
You cant police the internet. You really think you can make everyone on the internet and online games talk PC? I dont care about the gaming community. I care about the game. The mainstream world will never accept esports. Its a dream and a stupid one.
That being said if Orb or Destiny had actually advocated hatred, discrimination, violence or unfair/abusive treatment etc. of racial minorities or sexual minorities they should be given the Combat-Ex treatment.
|
On May 05 2012 22:07 BoxingKangaroo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 21:05 Xenocide_EU wrote:
I know teamliquid forums are heavy moderated, but cant leave it to just say:
sorry, but this is f***ng ret***ded. Are you people some kind of medieval lynch mob? At times this community is pretty full on. You may not agree with the way Destiny was ousted, but make no mistake, if E-Sports is to make it 'big' then language like this cannot be tolerated. What any random player does on ladder I couldn't care less about. However when that ladder player is sponsored by the same team that sponsors the current top foreigner, well then I have an interest. Kids may get a kick out of Destiny's antics. But adults earn the cash and pay the sponsors bills. And the majority of adults know this kind of language is wrong and won't support someone, or a team, or a sport that tolerates it. I hate to use the tired old 'for E-sports' canard, but that's really how it is. Of course if you don't want to see it grow, then by all means let Destiny do as he likes. But in 5-7 years, when you're fully grown and working in the real world and a little ashamed to tell your colleagues about this awesome sport you support because of all the racist, sexist, homophobic language rife within it's community, you'll realise what growing pains E-Sports needed to go through to make it big.
I'm an adult and I like Destiny (I also happen to appreciate a lot of famous comedians who are a lot more foul-mouthed) so I watch his private stream from time to time.
I don't like Incontrol (for some random reason), therefore I do not watch his stream.
It's simple.
Nowhere in that equation do I go out of my way, either for entertainment or bitterness, to deliberately set out to "punish" players/casters/streams by emailing sponsors and all that rubbish.
|
From Destiny's Twitter.
I appreciate the support to those who've been supportive, I really do, but this issue isn't worth fighting over, no more racial slurs for me
@Steven_Bonnell It's a good thing. People will take you far more seriously.
Expand
@ben22630262 The people who will are shallow-minded individuals that I never wanted watching me in the first place.
LOL. Somebody call a waaaaaaaaahhhhhhhmbulance.
It's so unfortunate that people are too immature and shallow to appreciate his layered and sophisticated use of the words like 'gook' and 'nigger' to express himself while playing computer games in his basement apartment. His transgressive and cavalier use of the word is actually a form of ironic meta-humor that can only be appreciated by avant garde, forward-thinking individuals that are bravely fighting for a post-racial society by stripping away the taboos of language.
Or maaaaaaaybe Destiny is just a self-aggrandizing, pompous douchebag that panders to the lowest common denominator of esports fans -- 14 year suburban nerds -- that still get their shits and giggles from anonymously trolling people with racial slurs on the internet.
Just maybe.
Anyway, I wish the dude the best of luck and hopes he finds something other then being a jackass to build his career around.
|
On May 05 2012 22:53 Defacer wrote:From Destiny's Twitter. Show nested quote +I appreciate the support to those who've been supportive, I really do, but this issue isn't worth fighting over, no more racial slurs for me Show nested quote +@Steven_Bonnell It's a good thing. People will take you far more seriously.
Expand
Show nested quote +@ben22630262 The people who will are shallow-minded individuals that I never wanted watching me in the first place. LOL. Somebody call a waaaaaaaaahhhhhhhmbulance. It's so unfortunate that people are too immature and shallow to appreciate his layered and sophisticated use of the words like 'gook' and 'nigger' to express himself while playing computer games in his basement apartment. His transgressive and cavalier use of the word is actually a form of ironic meta-humor that can only be appreciated by avant garde, forward-thinking individuals that are bravely fighting for a post-racial society by stripping away the taboos of language. Or maaaaaaaybe Destiny is just a self-aggrandizing, pompous douchebag that panders to the lowest common denominator of esports fans -- 14 year suburban nerds -- that still get their shits and giggles from anonymously trolling people with racial slurs on the internet. Just maybe. Anyway, I wish the dude the best of luck and hopes he finds something other then being a jackass to build his career around.
i hope you've never ever, shit talked someone when angry.
because the intent will have been the same.
that was also the equivalent of a "you mad" post, way to disguise it with an essay.
|
Well, given that he just called people kids, nerds, douchebags, etc he's clearly already doing so. I wonder if he has sponsors?
Congrats at being angry, Defacer.
|
On May 05 2012 22:56 Let it Raine wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 22:53 Defacer wrote:From Destiny's Twitter. I appreciate the support to those who've been supportive, I really do, but this issue isn't worth fighting over, no more racial slurs for me @Steven_Bonnell It's a good thing. People will take you far more seriously.
Expand
@ben22630262 The people who will are shallow-minded individuals that I never wanted watching me in the first place. LOL. Somebody call a waaaaaaaaahhhhhhhmbulance. It's so unfortunate that people are too immature and shallow to appreciate his layered and sophisticated use of the words like 'gook' and 'nigger' to express himself while playing computer games in his basement apartment. His transgressive and cavalier use of the word is actually a form of ironic meta-humor that can only be appreciated by avant garde, forward-thinking individuals that are bravely fighting for a post-racial society by stripping away the taboos of language. Or maaaaaaaybe Destiny is just a self-aggrandizing, pompous douchebag that panders to the lowest common denominator of esports fans -- 14 year suburban nerds -- that still get their shits and giggles from anonymously trolling people with racial slurs on the internet. Just maybe. Anyway, I wish the dude the best of luck and hopes he finds something other then being a jackass to build his career around. i hope you've never ever, shit talked someone when angry. because the intent will have been the same. that was also the equivalent of a "you mad" post, way to disguise it with an essay.
Of course I've shit talked people when I'm angry. But I don't get angry at ... people beating me in a fucking videogame. Tee hee.
And give credit where credit's due. My essay was a terrific summation of Destiny's routine, disingenuous, intellectually bankrupt rationalization of his own petty, silly fits of rage.
|
On May 05 2012 22:58 Dfgj wrote:
Well, given that he just called people kids, nerds, douchebags, etc he's clearly already doing so. I wonder if he has sponsors?
Congrats at being angry, Defacer.
Thank you, thank you. I like to channel my anger into humorous short-form prose.
But honestly, I'm not angry, I just find Destiny's self-delusion quite amusing and easy to make fun of.
|
On May 05 2012 22:41 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 22:07 BoxingKangaroo wrote:
Of course if you don't want to see it grow, then by all means let Destiny do as he likes. 'Esports', whatever that means anymore, has been doing just fine without community-damaging events like this. Personally, I don't care about 'Esports', or some mystical future where everyone will be rich and all games are high level with Boxer as king, because it doesn't mean anything now. It's some sort of vague, hopeful speculation, screamed out as justification for anything. I'd rather have a community that actually cares about Starcraft.
I for one think that although SC2 has been growing as an 'E-Sport', there will be a limit to how long this can continue while people like Destiny are tolerated. For example major 'TV' sports don't allow their players to spout racist comments, so between where SC is now and potentially as a 'TV' sport, at some point the community must get tough on these players. It might not have been necessary to do so now, but eventually it would happen.
As I said I don't like using 'E-sports' as justification. So how bout another one. How bout rightly shaming people for being arseholes? Someone uses a racist remark in real life, they get slapped down for it. Internet should be no different.
I think that a community that cares about its game will care about fostering a welcoming and all-inclusive community. This leaves little room for racist, sexist or homophobic remarks.
|
On May 05 2012 22:56 Let it Raine wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 22:53 Defacer wrote:From Destiny's Twitter. I appreciate the support to those who've been supportive, I really do, but this issue isn't worth fighting over, no more racial slurs for me @Steven_Bonnell It's a good thing. People will take you far more seriously.
Expand
@ben22630262 The people who will are shallow-minded individuals that I never wanted watching me in the first place. LOL. Somebody call a waaaaaaaaahhhhhhhmbulance. It's so unfortunate that people are too immature and shallow to appreciate his layered and sophisticated use of the words like 'gook' and 'nigger' to express himself while playing computer games in his basement apartment. His transgressive and cavalier use of the word is actually a form of ironic meta-humor that can only be appreciated by avant garde, forward-thinking individuals that are bravely fighting for a post-racial society by stripping away the taboos of language. Or maaaaaaaybe Destiny is just a self-aggrandizing, pompous douchebag that panders to the lowest common denominator of esports fans -- 14 year suburban nerds -- that still get their shits and giggles from anonymously trolling people with racial slurs on the internet. Just maybe. Anyway, I wish the dude the best of luck and hopes he finds something other then being a jackass to build his career around. i hope you've never ever, shit talked someone when angry. because the intent will have been the same. that was also the equivalent of a "you mad" post, way to disguise it with an essay.
You missed the point. Destiny is hiding behind an imaginary wall of "white knighting" the English language and the world from racial taboos when its bullshit excuse to use the words. I'd love to see him do it to people on the street rather than in his basement through the internet.
|
Im not sure who is more sad; Destiny or all the neckbeards hating on him. I do not like Destiny personally, therefore I could not care less what he has to say. Maybe some of you should get some fresh air once in a while and worry more about what you are saying and doing. Then again going after people via the internet over petty things is easier I suppose than trying to actually do something good and worthwhile.
|
On May 05 2012 22:46 Sawofhackness wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 22:07 BoxingKangaroo wrote:On May 05 2012 21:05 Xenocide_EU wrote:
I know teamliquid forums are heavy moderated, but cant leave it to just say:
sorry, but this is f***ng ret***ded. Are you people some kind of medieval lynch mob? At times this community is pretty full on. You may not agree with the way Destiny was ousted, but make no mistake, if E-Sports is to make it 'big' then language like this cannot be tolerated. What any random player does on ladder I couldn't care less about. However when that ladder player is sponsored by the same team that sponsors the current top foreigner, well then I have an interest. Kids may get a kick out of Destiny's antics. But adults earn the cash and pay the sponsors bills. And the majority of adults know this kind of language is wrong and won't support someone, or a team, or a sport that tolerates it. I hate to use the tired old 'for E-sports' canard, but that's really how it is. Of course if you don't want to see it grow, then by all means let Destiny do as he likes. But in 5-7 years, when you're fully grown and working in the real world and a little ashamed to tell your colleagues about this awesome sport you support because of all the racist, sexist, homophobic language rife within it's community, you'll realise what growing pains E-Sports needed to go through to make it big. I'm an adult and I like Destiny (I also happen to appreciate a lot of famous comedians who are a lot more foul-mouthed) so I watch his private stream from time to time. I don't like Incontrol (for some random reason), therefore I do not watch his stream. It's simple. Nowhere in that equation do I go out of my way, either for entertainment or bitterness, to deliberately set out to "punish" players/casters/streams by emailing sponsors and all that rubbish.
For the record, I haven't done those things either. I like a live and let-live philosophy. But in the end, these people are simply letting the sponsor know about a player they're sponsoring. If they then decide that, yes maybe this isn't a person we should be sponsoring, then that's really back on Destiny for behaving that way. If for example the mob had complained that a player shouldn't be sponsored because they support team X in the NFL for example, the sponsor would laugh it off and ignore the complaint.
I'm genuinely curious about what you like about Destiny. Don't you cringe when you see him say stuff like this? I also think there's a difference between foul-mouth comedians (social commentary) and Destiny (calling people racist terms). You don't?
|
On May 05 2012 19:37 Defacer wrote:LOLZ. Welcome to the world of grown-ups Destiny, where refusing not to say gook/nigger/whatever when you're losing a video game is the STUPIDEST reason to quit/get fired from one of the cushiest jobs in the world.
Ah, yes, the world of grown-ups. Where it's perfectly fine to call someone an inbred autistic retarded fucking faggot, but if you use a dated racial term that many Asian people don't even feel insulted by anymore, you deserve to have white knights cry to your boss and get you fired from your job.
|
On May 05 2012 23:18 Chocobo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 19:37 Defacer wrote:@Steven_Bonnell I appreciate the support to those who've been supportive, I really do, but this issue isn't worth fighting over, no more racial slurs for me https://twitter.com/#!/Steven_BonnellLOLZ. Welcome to the world of grown-ups Destiny, where refusing not to say gook/nigger/whatever when you're losing a video game is the STUPIDEST reason to quit/get fired from one of the cushiest jobs in the world. Ah, yes, the world of grown-ups. Where it's perfectly fine to call someone an inbred autistic retarded fucking faggot, but if you use a dated racial term that many Asian people don't even feel insulted by anymore, you deserve to have white knights cry to your boss and get you fired from your job.
Also the fact that there are people you don't know at all calling you names, buh uh uh, i'm so scandalized. Seriously.
|
This made me make an account here just to say this.
I'm a new SC2 player (2 months of playing so far) and the first thing i saw wrong with SC2 was racist, bming, childish individuals like Destiny getting so many viewers, made me think sc2 was far 2 childish and really made me wonder about the teams that sponsor people like that. I'm happy that this team and the community made a statement that things like that won't be tolerated.
I opened his stream once 2 weeks ago and in 5 min i realized what was happening there and couldn't even believe there was so many people watching that.
Thanks for this and thanks for un-featuring his stream, this already great community just raised a lot in my eyes. Let's promote sportsmanship and good behavior because that will make our games better.
|
On May 05 2012 23:17 Swift118 wrote:
Im not sure who is more sad; Destiny or all the neckbeards hating on him.
I can answer that for you- it's side who is trying to control other people's actions.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
