EPTDestiny and Quantic part ways - Page 132
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Keep this civil, guys | ||
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Daogin
Canada2308 Posts
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Darkedge
17 Posts
For the good of my sanity, dear god I hope it's the latter but I fear the former is true. | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
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ig0tfish
United States345 Posts
On May 05 2012 15:34 Daogin wrote: So many people butthurt over a few words over a game... If only people could put there rage towards things that actually mattered in this world. Then again everyone has to be right in their own way because everyone else is wrong! What about players in the NBA? If a white player called a black player a "dumb n***r" on the court, he'd probably get thrown out of the league. | ||
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Silvertine
United States509 Posts
On May 05 2012 15:34 Daogin wrote: So many people butthurt over a few words over a game... If only people could put there rage towards things that actually mattered in this world. Then again everyone has to be right in their own way because everyone else is wrong! This thread would be like 30 pages long if you removed all of these trite, meaningless responses. - Why do people care about a few words? - It's just a game - There's worse things going on in the world - Words can't hurt you unless you let them - Warden is just being a baby - There's no such thing as a racist word - The context makes it OK - I'm ashamed to be a part of this community(cue melodramatic rant and/or declaration to leave TL forever) - This is a lynching - Lame pitchfork joke - You're all self-righteous/white knights - You all think you're so perfect There, I think that covers it. | ||
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Hipsv
135 Posts
On May 05 2012 13:23 UkGracken wrote: Are the other players sponsored by razor? Ah right, They are not.. so they don't need to watch there mouths! Simple as that, We have used every sports analogy you can think of and still people are finding a way to be disappointed at the people who spotlighted this abusive atrocious racist idiotic behavior... And to all the people screaming "free speech.. In your country it may be ok to call someone a faggot gook .. id love to see you go call a mosque a shithole... lets see your freedom of speech save you from the people who didn't agree with your free speech bullshit... Remember the guy who drew Muhhamed with a bomb in his hat and people tried to kill him.. Where was his freedom of speech .. sure he has it .. but it doesn't mean there wont be repercussions .. And thats where we are with destiny, sure he has that freedom of speech  but doesn't mean he wont get punished for exacting your american right!The people who tried to kill that cartoonist are savages. Anyone who is civilized and has any single level of intelligence above that of a child would know that the easiest and most effective way to deal with racism is to ignore the person who is a racist. Sure perhaps a single person or a select few won't completely stamp racism out, but the fact of the matter is that as long as you are leading by example more will follow. Eventually the net effect is that Destiny or whoever will simply lack the ability to sustain himself using the vocabulary they are using and thus will be forced to change or die out. People who think that calling sponsors will change anything are childish at best, as clearly indicated in his statement Quantic was not a significant part of his payroll, so calling the sponsors and directly hurting the payroll of those who had NOTHING to do with the incident is nothing more than an act of cowardice that is akin to the racist remarks that he spouted in the first place. Many of the people on the Quantic roster are probably hardworking individuals who are seeking to make a profession out of a game that they enjoy, but it was endangered by the legion of brainless cowards who know little more than crying wolf because they are weak and unintelligent. Its quite clear that anyone who decides to forgo any team management in favor of messaging the sponsors about any specific player's antics is equal as repulsive a person as the player who is doing the antics. It also sickens me that people on this forum actually act like this is some sort of moral victory, when it is more like one evil winning over another. There is a time and a place for messaging sponsors about actions of teams(usually when entire teams are acting out of line and management isn't acting on it), but it has NO place in the current situation provided and it will only serve as a reminder about how this community and the internet are able to implode themselves akin to a nuclear winter, which is what should happen should these types of actions become commonplace. Eventually, any sponsors besides niche companies will withdraw their support for teams due to the volatile nature that is present here where if you speak out against the popular view (which is right) that they will complain over and over because they are mindless idiots incapable of critical thought process. I sincerely hope that my warnings are heeded and this becomes nothing more than a 1 off incident, but I have a feeling that this is a turning point of sorts where the community nose-dives on itself because idiots who haven't learned a thing since grade school about dealing with prejudices are able to voice their own opinions. | ||
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Grend
1600 Posts
On May 05 2012 15:35 Darkedge wrote: The fact that this is such a polorising and splitting issue is very disturbing, either half of society has no morals whatsoever and simply adheres to social decency due to potential ostracisation from their peers and can conveniently ignore this barrier when posting with the anonymity of an online environment or the SC community simply attracts terrible people. For the good of my sanity, dear god I hope it's the latter but I fear the former is true. Yes, you have no morals if you think there is a difference between ladder rage and actual racism. It`s not like there is any context here that makes it a tad bit different. What has moral and social decency got to do with each other anyway? If I do not speak nice to you I`m automatically a person who makes terrible moral decisions? That makes no sense. | ||
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Son of Gnome
United States777 Posts
On May 05 2012 16:16 Silvertine wrote: This thread would be like 30 pages long if you removed all of these trite, meaningless responses. - Why do people care about a few words? - It's just a game - There's worse things going on in the world - Words can't hurt you unless you let them - Warden is just being a baby - There's no such thing as a racist word - The context makes it OK - I'm ashamed to be a part of this community(cue melodramatic rant and/or declaration to leave TL forever) - This is a lynching - Lame pitchfork joke - You're all self-righteous/white knights - You all think you're so perfect There, I think that covers it. Funny thing is about half of those are true lol | ||
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Shaok
297 Posts
Yes, it is a sad world we live in. | ||
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Darkedge
17 Posts
On May 05 2012 16:18 Grend wrote: Yes, you have no morals if you think there is a difference between ladder rage and actual racism. It`s not like there is any context here that makes it a tad bit different. What has moral and social decency got to do with each other anyway? If I do not speak nice to you I`m automatically a person who makes terrible moral decisions? That makes no sense. I'm assuming you believe one can say and act however they like so long as they do so under the guise of ladder rage? I'm also assuming you believe you can then later show no remorse, actually state it can, will and should happen again, then retroactively attibute the entire thing as championing the cause of anti-censorship and free speech, free speech being an entirely different concept than most actually think it is. Then comment that if you don't like it, don't watch the stream, conveniently forgetting those on the ladder that are the targets of such abuse. The context is very much understood. I do believe a person is truly revealed for what they are in an environment where they can act and speak without percieved consequences, the worst thing that can happen to the people in this thread is a ban, no real lasting consequence at all that would affect their real lives, quite different to what would happen if they were to act this way in a real situation amongst their peers, where what they say have lasting consequences. | ||
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Qibla
Australia343 Posts
Well I did specifically say that Quantic should have managed it themselves in the first place, but yes Razer should be aware of who plays for Quantic and what there reputations are. Its not a hard job. an hour with Google once a month would suffice. | ||
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Evangelist
1246 Posts
Not to mention they have the entire Vile roster now. | ||
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-_-Quails
Australia796 Posts
On May 05 2012 16:18 Hipsv wrote: The people who tried to kill that cartoonist are savages. Anyone who is civilized and has any single level of intelligence above that of a child would know that the easiest and most effective way to deal with racism is to ignore the person who is a racist. Sure perhaps a single person or a select few won't completely stamp racism out, but the fact of the matter is that as long as you are leading by example more will follow. Eventually the net effect is that Destiny or whoever will simply lack the ability to sustain himself using the vocabulary they are using and thus will be forced to change or die out. I find that the easiest and best way to deal with racism is to verbally challenge the people espousing it at every point where they do so. It takes more effort from you, but other people who oppose racism but would choose to sit back and hope it disappears will often speak out against it if someone else does. I would rather get the issue into the open, have people confront it now, and know who I have irreconcilable differences of opinion with and who will never respect me because of where I was born and who I was born to as soon as possible than hope if everyone stays quiet there is no problem. I agree with the rest of your post. Sponsors should be contacted only if the team does not respond appropriately to unacceptable behaviour by members rather than as a default. | ||
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-_-Quails
Australia796 Posts
On May 05 2012 16:20 Son of Gnome wrote: Funny thing is about half of those are true lol Which half? | ||
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bhfberserk
Canada390 Posts
It is not the matter of is it racist or not, it is the matter of moral level in each different stages. 1) For Casual common gamer like us swear all you want, be as racist as you want to be, no one will care. 2) Streaming or Youtube Channels, sure, you can have a warning sign, you can swear all you want. Some people will enjor watching it, some will not. Day 9 uses F words, but Husky rather not swear. 3) At MLG or GOM, You are not allow to even use a single F words. (Although occasionally people accidentally slip a few those are over look because they were not intentional) Day9's F word completely disappear when he is casting at these tournament. He knows what he should behave like. 4) As a Pro-Gamer at major tournament, you cannot even just throw away a game by probe all-in. Gom will see that as a disrespect and ban you. Now, Destiny is a player that represents a team. He says racist words on his stream. Sure, he can be as racist as he wants, but not when he bear the name of Quanatic. Some people cannot accept that, reported him, and he is back down to the level of just streaming and youtube channels. Destiny even stated that himself that he thinks he will bring trouble to the team, rather than be an asset. If Destiny wants to go up a level and be on a pro-gaming team, yes, I think he will have to drop the racist stuff. Now on to if Destiny is a "racist" person or, makes terrible moral decisions. No, he is not. He probably does not even mean any of the words he uses. He does not hate Koreans, or anything. This behavior is one of the reason people tune in for his stream. SlayerSBoxeR have a interesting read on his biography, saying he didn't dare to go out party, drinking or anything. Because he represents E-sport itself. So whatever he do wrong or anything, people will see that as a negative imagine of E-sport. While SlayerSBoxeR is an extreme case, because he literally means E-sport itself but for all the Pro-gamers out there, they should know that they have become powerful idols that many people may look up to, and those fans could be kids, older gamers, Koreans or anything. In conclusion: Destiny is not racist. Destiny should quit the team and go back to the level of streaming games (Not representing other than himself as an individual). Teamliquid have the right to take down his listing, as they see that they do not want to encourage this image. Razer have the right to not sponsor Destiny because they do not want to support this image. ============================================================================================== Now on to another matter of "Who CALLED THE SPONSOR" 1) The community is not white knights, we all swear, we all make racist jokes. 2) Most of us wouldn't even bother calling the sponsor. 3) Warden did an All in on Destiny. The all in is part of the game. 4) Warden posts Destiny's behavoir on TL. Sure he can be offended, since he is not the aggressor. He could be a Korean or a 12 year old. Who knows. He is allowed to be offended. (But sure, most of us might just ignore it and move on. 5) Some individual reported this to the sponsor. Sure they can report all they want too. They too can feel offended. They could be a mom, or a father that wants to show their kids E-sport. They could be anyone. They could be someone that buys razor products and is not happy about the situation. They have every right to report whatever and to whoever they want. (But sure, most of us can see that being over-reacting) But we do not know who these individuals are. The situation might have gone a bit more serious than it should, but don't blame the community for this reaction. In the end it is Destiny's own doing. And he have stated perfectly on reddit that he is more a burden than an asset. His reddit post is a perfect explaination. He will continue to do his stream the same old way, and he shouldn't be representing a pro-gaming team. | ||
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Grend
1600 Posts
On May 05 2012 16:31 Darkedge wrote: I'm assuming you believe one can say and act however they like so long as they do so under the guise of ladder rage? I'm also assuming you believe you can then later show no remorse, actually state it can, will and should happen again, then retroactively attibute the entire thing as championing the cause of anti-censorship and free speech, free speech being an entirely different concept than most actually think it is. Then comment that if you don't like it, don't watch the stream, conveniently forgetting those on the ladder that are the targets of such abuse. The context is very much understood. I do believe a person is truly revealed for what they are in an environment where they can act and speak without percieved consequences, the worst thing that can happen to the people in this thread is a ban, no real lasting consequence at all that would affect their real lives, quite different to what would happen if they were to act this way in a real situation amongst their peers, where what they say have lasting consequences. I was just pointing out how much of a ridiculous and overblown statement it was of you to say that half of this community has no morals based on them agreeing/defending Destiny. Of course you chose not to respond to that, maybe because it was a stupid remark and made no sense. | ||
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dronefarm
United States260 Posts
On May 05 2012 16:28 Shaok wrote: The whole world must be PG-13 or G-rated to suit the masses of people who are not in control of their own reactions. Yes, it is a sad world we live in. It's a sad world we live in when we can't be understanding of the feelings of our fellow man, and instead choose to defend the use of vile language used to dehumanize other cultures as "not that big a deal" because it was over a game, the person "didn't mean it that way", etc. If anyone uses this type of language, it's unacceptable. I don't care who you are or what your context is, you're using that word to dehumanize another human being, and you're an asshole for doing it. You can brush it off by "there are worse things", or whatever, but that doesn't give you the right to be a dickhead because you could be doing worse things. I'm going to be glad if half the people who said they're done with TL leave, becuase we don't need immature people who are outraged at people shunning someone for using hateful speach. | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On May 05 2012 15:35 Darkedge wrote: The fact that this is such a polorising and splitting issue is very disturbing, either half of society has no morals whatsoever and simply adheres to social decency due to potential ostracisation from their peers and can conveniently ignore this barrier when posting with the anonymity of an online environment or the SC community simply attracts terrible people. For the good of my sanity, dear god I hope it's the latter but I fear the former is true. The internet slowly destroys a person's faith in humanity. I have been playing online games for almost 15 years and I became a very cynical person because of it. | ||
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Mithriel
Netherlands2969 Posts
On May 05 2012 17:22 hzflank wrote: The internet slowly destroys a person's faith in humanity. I have been playing online games for almost 15 years and I became a very cynical person because of it. There's nothing slow about how fast a persons faith in humanity can be destroyed on the internet. Just read any random message board or join any public games. Most of sc2 teamgames, LoL/Dota pubs, CS pubs or WoW stuff will destroy faith within minutes. I've long given up on humanity on the intrawebs | ||
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Grend
1600 Posts
On May 05 2012 17:22 hzflank wrote: The internet slowly destroys a person's faith in humanity. I have been playing online games for almost 15 years and I became a very cynical person because of it. I was thinking the same thing. For anyone that has been playing games online for 10+ years and been part of the different communities and stuff that has been going on in that period this incident is like the tiniest drop in the ocean. | ||
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