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Keep this civil, guys |
On May 05 2012 06:02 Kimaker wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:00 dAPhREAk wrote:On May 05 2012 05:52 ProBot wrote:On May 05 2012 05:33 Leth0 wrote:On May 05 2012 05:30 ProBot wrote:On May 05 2012 05:15 BlueLanterna wrote:On May 05 2012 05:12 divito wrote:On May 05 2012 04:57 BlueLanterna wrote:
Choosing to be offended shows you actually have interest in making sure the SC2 community is a place you can join without seeing insults directly at your heritage or race, regardless if you mean it or not. Just like the fighting game nerds wanting to keep saying "RAPE THAT HO" even though some female players would love to play and are driven away by such immaturity. Sorry if you don't care to see that. I'd rather see freedom to express yourself however you want, and a community that understands individuality. I abhor where we are headed as a community, where the mass of complainers suck the personality out of players and casters, and there ends up being a debate thread over every little action. I find it incredibly disturbing that people that can't handle things psychologically are driving the nature of things in this community (and in life in general), because it breeds the status quo. We will slowly lose logical and critical thinking when we're programming younger people to jump at the sight of certain words, phrases, or actions without concern for the context, history or analytical aspects associated with that that they're whining about. Do you understand that there is a difference between expressing yourself how you want, and using language which is inflammatory to an entire group of people? If you really think not being able to say gook and nigger is robbing people of their personality, get out of this community and get some psychiatric help. I completely disagree with you. People are using these certain words and phrases precisely because they DONT understand the context, or the history behind what they're whining about. We're talking about the same language the same group of peoples use to describe themselves in every second sentence right? And it seems like every other racial group in the world can use as well (Listen to asian / hispanic rappers they drop the n bomb just as much as black cats ) .... However whenever a white person uses it regardless of context it's racist? That sure makes sense to me. No , but when a kid gets mad over a video game and resorts to calling his opponent a racial slur then he is no better than the racists who use the word in the same inflammatory manner. And who are you to say whether he's no better than a racist or not? The bigger question should even be why does anyone ever care what the dude says on his stream in the first place? Like i haven't even read 1 argument as to why anyone even cares? Actually lets see if he's done anything to show or prove he's racist. Has destiny called a black player a nigger on stream? No ok then ... well how about calling someone with mental disabilities a retard? Hrmmm nope again. Well shit maybe he's actually called a homosexual a faggot then? Wait he hasn't? Well god damn. Has he raised money for charity benefiting mostly non white people? Well yeah, he has actually ( funny how nobody actually talks about this one ... go figure there) Mother fucker must be racist!!! To be fair he has said those words out of frustration, but Idra, machine, and incontrol at some point have used the word gay or fag on stream at some point ... yet nobody's e-mailing their sponsors bitching ... funny how that works, hell idra gave chris the finger and yelled "fuck you" at him at mlg that had young kids in the crowd .... nobodies e-mailing sponsors bitching about that either. If your complaining about destiny but not a good 60% of pro gamers out there, or the ones i previously mentioned then your a fucking hypocrite and have business bitching about anything. he called a korean player a "gook." edit: ninja'd by adrenaling Which, as an asian, I find rather humorous ^_^
High five to common sense
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On May 05 2012 05:48 adrenaLinG wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 05:47 d00p wrote:On May 05 2012 05:44 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 05:35 StarStrider wrote:
South Park is a good analogy.
The majority of society has a problem with a ton of content orignating from South Park.
Should Comedy Central pull the show? Should the advertisers for South Park be contacted?
In my opinion, context is everything. Coming from South Park, you don't expect a high politically correct moral standard. And coming from Destiny, same thing. That is the appeal. The rebellion against PC. The question is, do you pull South Park and Destiny, or do you acknowledge it as being a different stroke for the people who are into that kind of humor, and just mind your own goddamn business?
Is South Park reliant on sponsorship money? Do corporate sponsors flock to advertise and partner with South Park? The answer is no. You sure about that? Do you even know what your talking about? Are you an insider in that industry? Do you actually know who flocks where. The answer is no. I sure know more than you about it.
Does it even matter ?
It is an analogy a good one even.
no need to nitpick the details of it.
Its sad to see this happening.
Tough i agree if e sports is going to get mainstream it needs to be presented well.
But this does not mean we should police user streams and certainly not try to hurt the player/team true their sponsors.
Destroying a persons future/carrier because you get offended is not ok !!
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On May 05 2012 06:03 ProBot wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:02 Kimaker wrote:On May 05 2012 06:00 dAPhREAk wrote:On May 05 2012 05:52 ProBot wrote:On May 05 2012 05:33 Leth0 wrote:On May 05 2012 05:30 ProBot wrote:On May 05 2012 05:15 BlueLanterna wrote:On May 05 2012 05:12 divito wrote:On May 05 2012 04:57 BlueLanterna wrote:
Choosing to be offended shows you actually have interest in making sure the SC2 community is a place you can join without seeing insults directly at your heritage or race, regardless if you mean it or not. Just like the fighting game nerds wanting to keep saying "RAPE THAT HO" even though some female players would love to play and are driven away by such immaturity. Sorry if you don't care to see that. I'd rather see freedom to express yourself however you want, and a community that understands individuality. I abhor where we are headed as a community, where the mass of complainers suck the personality out of players and casters, and there ends up being a debate thread over every little action. I find it incredibly disturbing that people that can't handle things psychologically are driving the nature of things in this community (and in life in general), because it breeds the status quo. We will slowly lose logical and critical thinking when we're programming younger people to jump at the sight of certain words, phrases, or actions without concern for the context, history or analytical aspects associated with that that they're whining about. Do you understand that there is a difference between expressing yourself how you want, and using language which is inflammatory to an entire group of people? If you really think not being able to say gook and nigger is robbing people of their personality, get out of this community and get some psychiatric help. I completely disagree with you. People are using these certain words and phrases precisely because they DONT understand the context, or the history behind what they're whining about. We're talking about the same language the same group of peoples use to describe themselves in every second sentence right? And it seems like every other racial group in the world can use as well (Listen to asian / hispanic rappers they drop the n bomb just as much as black cats ) .... However whenever a white person uses it regardless of context it's racist? That sure makes sense to me. No , but when a kid gets mad over a video game and resorts to calling his opponent a racial slur then he is no better than the racists who use the word in the same inflammatory manner. And who are you to say whether he's no better than a racist or not? The bigger question should even be why does anyone ever care what the dude says on his stream in the first place? Like i haven't even read 1 argument as to why anyone even cares? Actually lets see if he's done anything to show or prove he's racist. Has destiny called a black player a nigger on stream? No ok then ... well how about calling someone with mental disabilities a retard? Hrmmm nope again. Well shit maybe he's actually called a homosexual a faggot then? Wait he hasn't? Well god damn. Has he raised money for charity benefiting mostly non white people? Well yeah, he has actually ( funny how nobody actually talks about this one ... go figure there) Mother fucker must be racist!!! To be fair he has said those words out of frustration, but Idra, machine, and incontrol at some point have used the word gay or fag on stream at some point ... yet nobody's e-mailing their sponsors bitching ... funny how that works, hell idra gave chris the finger and yelled "fuck you" at him at mlg that had young kids in the crowd .... nobodies e-mailing sponsors bitching about that either. If your complaining about destiny but not a good 60% of pro gamers out there, or the ones i previously mentioned then your a fucking hypocrite and have business bitching about anything. he called a korean player a "gook." edit: ninja'd by adrenaling Which, as an asian, I find rather humorous ^_^ High five to common sense
Racism is common sense. You heard it here folks, from the destiny white knights at teamliquid dot net
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On May 05 2012 06:02 ProBot wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:00 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 05:52 ProBot wrote:On May 05 2012 05:33 Leth0 wrote:On May 05 2012 05:30 ProBot wrote:On May 05 2012 05:15 BlueLanterna wrote:On May 05 2012 05:12 divito wrote:On May 05 2012 04:57 BlueLanterna wrote:
Choosing to be offended shows you actually have interest in making sure the SC2 community is a place you can join without seeing insults directly at your heritage or race, regardless if you mean it or not. Just like the fighting game nerds wanting to keep saying "RAPE THAT HO" even though some female players would love to play and are driven away by such immaturity. Sorry if you don't care to see that. I'd rather see freedom to express yourself however you want, and a community that understands individuality. I abhor where we are headed as a community, where the mass of complainers suck the personality out of players and casters, and there ends up being a debate thread over every little action. I find it incredibly disturbing that people that can't handle things psychologically are driving the nature of things in this community (and in life in general), because it breeds the status quo. We will slowly lose logical and critical thinking when we're programming younger people to jump at the sight of certain words, phrases, or actions without concern for the context, history or analytical aspects associated with that that they're whining about. Do you understand that there is a difference between expressing yourself how you want, and using language which is inflammatory to an entire group of people? If you really think not being able to say gook and nigger is robbing people of their personality, get out of this community and get some psychiatric help. I completely disagree with you. People are using these certain words and phrases precisely because they DONT understand the context, or the history behind what they're whining about. We're talking about the same language the same group of peoples use to describe themselves in every second sentence right? And it seems like every other racial group in the world can use as well (Listen to asian / hispanic rappers they drop the n bomb just as much as black cats ) .... However whenever a white person uses it regardless of context it's racist? That sure makes sense to me. No , but when a kid gets mad over a video game and resorts to calling his opponent a racial slur then he is no better than the racists who use the word in the same inflammatory manner. And who are you to say whether he's no better than a racist or not? The bigger question should even be why does anyone ever care what the dude says on his stream in the first place? Like i haven't even read 1 argument as to why anyone even cares? Actually lets see if he's done anything to show or prove he's racist. Has destiny called a black player a nigger on stream? No ok then ... well how about calling someone with mental disabilities a retard? Hrmmm nope again. Well shit maybe he's actually called a homosexual a faggot then? Wait he hasn't? Well god damn. Has he raised money for charity benefiting mostly non white people? Well yeah, he has actually ( funny how nobody actually talks about this one ... go figure there) Mother fucker must be racist!!! To be fair he has said those words out of frustration, but Idra, machine, and incontrol at some point have used the word gay or fag on stream at some point ... yet nobody's e-mailing their sponsors bitching ... funny how that works, hell idra gave chris the finger and yelled "fuck you" at him at mlg that had young kids in the crowd .... nobodies e-mailing sponsors bitching about that either. If your complaining about destiny but not a good 60% of pro gamers out there, or the ones i previously mentioned then your a fucking hypocrite and have business bitching about anything. Well he called a Korean a gook and that was where this entire thing started from, so good on you for doing your due diligence Clearly racist lolz
Certainly a good start.
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many people have over simplified Destiny's transgressions into merely using "racist words".
he uses rape metaphors and also makes homophobic comments. if i listened to his stream more closely i might probably be able to pick up on other stuff. the odd time i've clicked on his stream i either get rape metaphors, racism, or homophobic stuff.
if you've ever worked in a setting with women .... rape metaphors will get you reprimanded immediately.
does any one on here like.. actually have .. a real girlfriend? how far does laughing about and comparing military tactics to rape ... how far does that go ?
add it all up and this guy just had to go.
if we want to expand this game beyond a male audience then rape metaphors have got to stop.
"the customer is always right."
if a woman wants to buy a good video card from AMD and she tells AMD she does not want to hear the people AMD sponsors using rape as a verb or adjective every minute then guess what?
AMD will contact the team. the team will contact the sponsored player. and the player will either shut up or leave the team.
when i pull of some amazing move to win a close game i dont need to celebrate by explaining how i "raped" my opponent. i'm just happy i won. let the game speak for itself. if that is not enough and the game is "boring" without adding the king of silly comments Destiny infuses into games then find another game to play.
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On May 05 2012 06:03 DarkEnergy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 05:48 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 05:47 d00p wrote:On May 05 2012 05:44 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 05:35 StarStrider wrote:
South Park is a good analogy.
The majority of society has a problem with a ton of content orignating from South Park.
Should Comedy Central pull the show? Should the advertisers for South Park be contacted?
In my opinion, context is everything. Coming from South Park, you don't expect a high politically correct moral standard. And coming from Destiny, same thing. That is the appeal. The rebellion against PC. The question is, do you pull South Park and Destiny, or do you acknowledge it as being a different stroke for the people who are into that kind of humor, and just mind your own goddamn business?
Is South Park reliant on sponsorship money? Do corporate sponsors flock to advertise and partner with South Park? The answer is no. You sure about that? Do you even know what your talking about? Are you an insider in that industry? Do you actually know who flocks where. The answer is no. I sure know more than you about it. Does it even matter ? It is an analogy a good one even. no need to nitpick the details of it. Its sad to see this happening. Tough i agree if e sports is going to get mainstream it needs to be presented well. But this does not mean we should police user streams and certainly not try to hurt the player/team true their sponsors. Destroying a persons future/carrier because you get offended is not ok !!
Destiny destroyed Destiny's career.
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On May 05 2012 06:02 drumsetjunky wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 05:40 StarStrider wrote:On May 05 2012 05:39 nagual wrote:
It was very clear, when Nani was bashed all-around in context of his game with Nestea, that this community absolutely LOVE witch hunting. Passion that went in the wrong direction. It is kind of sad to observe how the community changes over time, because it changes not in a good way. Year ago, when I first discovered TL and SC2 scene, I was overwhelmed with freindliness and good spirit. And now shit is flying in the air almost every week. Sad story, bro. I feel this exact same way. Almost makes me not want to be a part anymore. It's just pathetic. The notion of holding "public figures" responsible for what they say and do is a GOOD thing. It's a time honored tradition in fact. Players, casters, leagues and other eSports organizations need to realize that the community holds more power than ever before. Good or bad, right or wrong. Sponsors need to also realize this, using WISDOM, and take some of what the community spews out with a grain of salt. This mindless mob mentality is a symptom of success. Organizations(players, teams, leagues) need to come to some agreement with sponsors on a protocol for these incidents. Dropping a player off of a team or a caster out of a league is NOT the answer. OUR COMMUNITY IS NOT BETTER BECAUSE OF THESE WITCH HUNTS, WE LOSE MORE THAN WE GAIN WHEN WE CRUCIFY SOMEONE FOR WHAT WE DEEM AS A MISTAKE.
This is not a mistake, man. Destiny did not accidentally let the word slip. This is a consistent pattern of behavior for which he does not apologize and does not plan to change. Destiny thinks it is acceptable to shout racial slurs at people. His old sponsors appear to disagree.
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Everyone defending this guy, I would ask: What would happen if Destiny were a football/basketball player or whatever, imagine him behaving like that in a professional environment. What would happen?
I bet everyone here wants e-sports to be taken seriously, but when it comes to professionalism and being responsible people seem to forget about it, and then they bitch about not being taken seriously.
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On May 05 2012 06:04 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
many people have over simplified Destiny's transgressions into merely using "racist words".
he uses rape metaphors and also makes homophobic comments. if i listened to his stream more closely i might probably be able to pick up on other stuff. the odd time i've clicked on his stream i either get rape metaphors, racism, or homophobic stuff.
if you've ever worked in a setting with women .... rape metaphors will get you reprimanded immediately.
does any one on here like.. actually have .. a real girlfriend? how far does laughing about and comparing military tactics to rape ... how far does that go ?
add it all up and this guy just had to go.
if we want to expand this game beyond a male audience then rape metaphors have got to stop.
"the customer is always right."
if a woman wants to be a good video card from AMD and she tells AMD she does not want to hear the people AMD sponsors using rape as a verb or adjective every minute then guess what?
AMD will contact the team. the team will contact the sponsored player. and the player will either shut up or leave the team.
Instead, Destiny will get angry and tell her how she's being overly sensitive and that she needs to deal with the harsh language and grow thicker skin because women will never be able to vote.
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On May 05 2012 06:05 jxx wrote:
Everyone defending this guy, I would ask: What would happen if Destiny were a football/basketball player or whatever, imagine him behaving like that in a professional environment. What would happen?
I bet everyone here wants e-sports to be taken seriously, but when it comes to professionalism and being responsible people seem to forget about it, and then they bitch about not being taken seriously.
IF YOU DONT LIKE IT TURN OFF THE STREAM
User was temp banned for this post.
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On May 05 2012 06:04 adrenaLinG wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:03 ProBot wrote:On May 05 2012 06:02 Kimaker wrote:On May 05 2012 06:00 dAPhREAk wrote:On May 05 2012 05:52 ProBot wrote:On May 05 2012 05:33 Leth0 wrote:On May 05 2012 05:30 ProBot wrote:On May 05 2012 05:15 BlueLanterna wrote:On May 05 2012 05:12 divito wrote:On May 05 2012 04:57 BlueLanterna wrote:
Choosing to be offended shows you actually have interest in making sure the SC2 community is a place you can join without seeing insults directly at your heritage or race, regardless if you mean it or not. Just like the fighting game nerds wanting to keep saying "RAPE THAT HO" even though some female players would love to play and are driven away by such immaturity. Sorry if you don't care to see that. I'd rather see freedom to express yourself however you want, and a community that understands individuality. I abhor where we are headed as a community, where the mass of complainers suck the personality out of players and casters, and there ends up being a debate thread over every little action. I find it incredibly disturbing that people that can't handle things psychologically are driving the nature of things in this community (and in life in general), because it breeds the status quo. We will slowly lose logical and critical thinking when we're programming younger people to jump at the sight of certain words, phrases, or actions without concern for the context, history or analytical aspects associated with that that they're whining about. Do you understand that there is a difference between expressing yourself how you want, and using language which is inflammatory to an entire group of people? If you really think not being able to say gook and nigger is robbing people of their personality, get out of this community and get some psychiatric help. I completely disagree with you. People are using these certain words and phrases precisely because they DONT understand the context, or the history behind what they're whining about. We're talking about the same language the same group of peoples use to describe themselves in every second sentence right? And it seems like every other racial group in the world can use as well (Listen to asian / hispanic rappers they drop the n bomb just as much as black cats ) .... However whenever a white person uses it regardless of context it's racist? That sure makes sense to me. No , but when a kid gets mad over a video game and resorts to calling his opponent a racial slur then he is no better than the racists who use the word in the same inflammatory manner. And who are you to say whether he's no better than a racist or not? The bigger question should even be why does anyone ever care what the dude says on his stream in the first place? Like i haven't even read 1 argument as to why anyone even cares? Actually lets see if he's done anything to show or prove he's racist. Has destiny called a black player a nigger on stream? No ok then ... well how about calling someone with mental disabilities a retard? Hrmmm nope again. Well shit maybe he's actually called a homosexual a faggot then? Wait he hasn't? Well god damn. Has he raised money for charity benefiting mostly non white people? Well yeah, he has actually ( funny how nobody actually talks about this one ... go figure there) Mother fucker must be racist!!! To be fair he has said those words out of frustration, but Idra, machine, and incontrol at some point have used the word gay or fag on stream at some point ... yet nobody's e-mailing their sponsors bitching ... funny how that works, hell idra gave chris the finger and yelled "fuck you" at him at mlg that had young kids in the crowd .... nobodies e-mailing sponsors bitching about that either. If your complaining about destiny but not a good 60% of pro gamers out there, or the ones i previously mentioned then your a fucking hypocrite and have business bitching about anything. he called a korean player a "gook." edit: ninja'd by adrenaling Which, as an asian, I find rather humorous ^_^ High five to common sense Racism is common sense. You heard it here folks, from the destiny white knights at teamliquid dot net
Not so much, more of the common sense to see past the words and to actually get the meaning. A for effort tho, it was almost clever. My fault for not spelling it out for you tho.
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I hope he remains teamless, then I hope he gets worse as a player because he has to support himself, then I hope he falls off the map and eventually retires from gaming.
There are very obvious and plain reasons why he cant hold on to a team for longer than 3 seconds; he is the image of a player that does not belong in a growing gaming community, and he obviously never learns that the way he acts is simply unacceptable by the majority of the community, spare is 1k or so fanboys that *still* get a kick out of his repetitive, predictable, and lame attitude towards other players in general.
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On May 05 2012 05:53 IMABUNNEH wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 05:45 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 05:42 IMABUNNEH wrote:
Apparently having morals, and pursuing your morals to a conclusion, is now looked down on as being self righteous or elitist? YES, damn it. You don't get to force others to conform to your beliefs! Nobody forced Destiny to conform to their beliefs. That's why he parted ways with Quantic. Because he WON'T conform with what other people believe. I respect that he is his own man, if someone doesn't like what he does, he doesn't give a shit.
Heh, yeah... honestly I had a pretty low opinion of Destiny before this. I had little respect for him, but I found his stream very entertaining. Sort of like watching Cartman from South Park in real life, plus I get to learn and improve my zerg game. But I've gained respect for him, seeing how he has handled this situation.
But if you don't feel what he is doing is appropriate, and you feel strongly enough, then why should you sit down and shut up? Destiny is a supporter of free speech obviously, so he is by proxy a supporter of other people having free speech, including the ability to speak out against what they feel is wrong.
Free speech is not the issue here. Obviously every form of speech used in this entire situation is legal and everyone was within their rights to speak it.
The issue (to me) is about this question: what should you do if you disapprove of someone else's actions?
The primary two options here are A) ignore him, stop supporting him, avoid him, have nothing to do with him, and B) demand that he change, demand that his employer exert their power over him, essentially threatening him with harm if he doesn't comply and following through on that threat when he refuses.
I strongly believe that A is the right course of action, and that B is uncalled for and highly inappropriate.
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On May 05 2012 05:56 Chocobo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 05:48 Tehs Tehklz wrote:On May 05 2012 05:45 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 05:42 IMABUNNEH wrote:
Apparently having morals, and pursuing your morals to a conclusion, is now looked down on as being self righteous or elitist? YES, damn it. You don't get to force others to conform to your beliefs! Yo, no one forced him to do anything. How can you say that? I mean... no, no one went to his home and physically forced him to things. But this whole situation is about people attempting to force him to comply with their wishes, or else face whatever consequences they are able to impose on him. If I point a gun at you and demand your wallet, would you say that I'm not forcing you to give me your wallet, because you still get to choose your actions in that situation? Let's not turn this into an argument of semantics. Perhaps my response should have been "You don't get to attempt to force others to conform with your beliefs." Is that clearer?
What are these stupid analogies? This thread is littered with them. This is the standard for any profession, your employer asks you to do something, you either do it or you don't expect them to continue to employ you.
If he wants to be able to use whatever language he wants, he puts himself at risk of losing sponsorships from major companies like Razor. Razor has every right to expect and request a certain level of control, Destiny has every right to say he won't comply. But expecting Razor to continue support Destiny regardless doesn't make any sense.
It's their money Quantic was dependent on and Destiny was being supported by Quantic. I don't understand what point you're trying to make. When you're getting support from an organization, that organization can and will put stipulations on that support. I don't see anything wrong with that.
As for people giving Razor a heads up on how they feel, I don't really see an issue here either. I'd prefer if they went to Destiny, then Quantic and finally to Razor and also if they made sure to send a positive email after action was taken. If Razor's support of an organization or player affects my opinion of them, I'd think they'd want to know.
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On May 05 2012 05:30 Chocobo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 05:18 BlueLanterna wrote:On May 05 2012 05:15 Chocobo wrote:On May 05 2012 05:09 BlueLanterna wrote:On May 05 2012 05:08 StarStrider wrote:
Let's call this what it is people. It was a bunch of jelly butthurt basement dwellers from /vg/ who are trying to ruin him. For no other reason than they just want to watch his career burn. They get nothing but the satisfaction of control out of it, and they couldn't give a flying fuck about the community or esports or the backlash that going to sponsors could cause to anyone else in the scene.
Most people who believe in esports would not be stupid enough to ignore the major repurcussions that would be felt by his team and esports in general from trying to get sponsors pulled. These are trolls of the 4chan scene doing what they do best. Fucking people over with no regard for logic or consequences. You're not saying it's a bad thing that a high profile streamer who used frequent ignorant hate speech is no longer on a professional team are you? Why do you believe that no gamer who uses bad language should be allowed on a professional team? Why are professional gamers on teams required to conform to your standards while you get to be the internet morality police? Why do you get to have control over others? You're making a strawman argument as well. I never said gamers who use bad language shouldn't be allowed on a professional team, I said those who use hate speech, even in jest, shouldn't be supported. LOL "Why do you get to have control over others?" It has nothing to do with what I as an individual wants, it's what society deems as acceptable. I completely agree that they ----SHOULDN'T BE SUPPORTED----. That is exactly what should have happened to Destiny. All of the people offended by his language should have stopped watching his games and stopped tuning in to his stream and stopped supporting him in any way. But there is an enormous, gigantic difference between "shouldn't be supported" and "should be forced to conform to our standards or else we're going to fuck with him". A large portion of society has deemed Destiny's actions to be unacceptable. Great. That's completely fine. But since when is it OK to get back at him by going to his employer and trying to get him fired? Since when is it ok to demand that he conform to your rules, or else you're going to take revenge against him? That is called "trying to have control over others" and there's no way to deny that. I find it to be extremely inappropriate and completely uncalled for. The correct course of action is "if you don't like it, don't watch it" but that fact is being overlooked by many people.
Scenario question: Destiny is a representative of Team Quantic when he streams. He is, in effect "working" for them at that moment in time, right? Maybe he's not contractually, not sure. Lets say I go into a Best Buy and the salesman makes an insulting/racist/demeaning remark to me while he is actively employed. What actions do I have to seek resolution? I can talk to the individual - which may correct the problem on the spot. I can speak to his Supervisors. Now whether or not I demand to the Supervisor for him to be fired or not, or just counseled on the issue, is really up to the employer. I would say that complaining about something that isn't acceptable is fine action. That is all that an individual can actively do. Its up the employers to make the final call. Destiny can say whatever he wants and as such he needs to be prepared to endure whatever repercussions ensure as a result of those actions, particularly when in the place of employment.
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On May 05 2012 06:06 BlueLanterna wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:05 jxx wrote:
Everyone defending this guy, I would ask: What would happen if Destiny were a football/basketball player or whatever, imagine him behaving like that in a professional environment. What would happen?
I bet everyone here wants e-sports to be taken seriously, but when it comes to professionalism and being responsible people seem to forget about it, and then they bitch about not being taken seriously. IF YOU DONT LIKE IT TURN OFF THE STREAM
If you don't like it stream somewhere else?
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On May 05 2012 05:44 adrenaLinG wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 05:35 StarStrider wrote:
South Park is a good analogy.
The majority of society has a problem with a ton of content orignating from South Park.
Should Comedy Central pull the show? Should the advertisers for South Park be contacted?
In my opinion, context is everything. Coming from South Park, you don't expect a high politically correct moral standard. And coming from Destiny, same thing. That is the appeal. The rebellion against PC. The question is, do you pull South Park and Destiny, or do you acknowledge it as being a different stroke for the people who are into that kind of humor, and just mind your own goddamn business?
Is South Park reliant on sponsorship money? Do corporate sponsors flock to advertise and partner with South Park? The answer is no.
The answer is yes. However it is indirect.
CC pays for South Park to be on the air. Who pays CC to air South Park? Corporate "sponsors" looking to advertise their product during the air time of said show. If the show wasn't popular enough, or if corporations found South Park to be too offensive to advertise their product during the show, the show would no longer exist because no one would be paying for it.
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On May 05 2012 06:06 BlueLanterna wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:05 jxx wrote:
Everyone defending this guy, I would ask: What would happen if Destiny were a football/basketball player or whatever, imagine him behaving like that in a professional environment. What would happen?
I bet everyone here wants e-sports to be taken seriously, but when it comes to professionalism and being responsible people seem to forget about it, and then they bitch about not being taken seriously. IF YOU DONT LIKE IT TURN OFF THE STREAM
In a sense, they did. They turned off their stream of revenue to the companies that were supporting him. They express their wish to not have their money go to support this kind of behavior. The sponsors shared a similar sentiment.
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Destiny is a no skill douchebag, but it's absolutely WRONG for people to be policed for their beliefs and speech to the point of getting kicked from teams and the like. I would have thought him getting the boot was GOOD news, because he's not really a pro gamer, just a streamer, but this is actually sickening news because it shows the poor state the community is in. What is this, 1984? Grow up. If you don't like what someone is saying or it offends you, TURN IT OFF. It's not fucking hard. If you have children and are worried about what THEY are exposed to, then DO YOUR FUCKING JOB AND BE A PARENT. I like watching (American) football, but am I going to contact the sponsorship of the New York Jets because Tim Tebow is an obnoxious fundamentalist christian assbag and try to get him fired just because I dislike his beliefs? And, more importantly, would ANYONE listen? Fuck no. Take the NFL as a legitimate professional model. If people wrote letters to NFL sponsors saying Tebow's christianity offends them, they wouldn't even get so much as a letter back, and the talentless virgin would continue to get rich for not knowing how to throw a football. But that's the professional model, and I wish esports would adapt to it, otherwise you have what happened here; the "public" (SC2 community) can get unpopular people fired at will by whining about political correctness. This is downright ridiculous. Anyone that actually REPORTS A PLAYER TO THEIR SPONSORS for what they say, you should fucking kill yourself right now, you self righteous cocksucker.
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EPT
