On April 28 2012 00:29 Belha wrote: Bisu changing to T is just a tradegy for P players. Also is a sign of what top top koreans think of race balance and potential.
Is it really set in stone that he's fully switching to T?
It wouldn't make sense for him to play P because the multitasking and micro control style of T suits him much better. Playing P would be a complete waste of his talent. Just imagine somebody who multi-drops and pushes like MMA, but has MKP's marine control and aggression. Only that Bisu has 5x better multitask than MMA, and can manually click 2 dragoons and right click on a spider mine, when there are 3 spider mines being laid down at a time with 6 dragoons, while macro-ing, sniping a tank with a 3 dragoon flank and teching arbiters.
Its weird though, all races suit Flash better in one way or the other. P for the turtle late game, T for the timing attacks and weird openings, Z for the macro and game sense.
Zerg doesn't suit Fantasy at all.
why doesnt it suit fantasy at all? he can build extractors around the map and enjoy his gg timing.Anyway watching a progamer playing off race maybe an interesting idea after all.
Hahaha. Floating buildings to the corner of the map still works better. You even have stalemate now, oh god.
Fantasy loves his drops, aggression and weird builds, I can't imagine Fanta playing a standard macro turtly game.
On April 27 2012 10:27 justsayinbro wrote: Am I the only one who is more excited to see the end of Elephant in the room with flash's transition? I mean leading up to his first broadcasted match there will be more of this debate but once flash shows how he will actually play one of you guys will be wrong while other is right
nah, unless flash 100% dominates everyone everytime(and everyone knows that won't happen) people wouldn't concede that argument, and if flash or practically every bw pro tanks and fails bw fanboys would still make excuses about how sc2 requires no skill or the pro's don't even care/like sc2 or whatever. This particular divide will never get closure cause regardless of the truth some people won't admit to seeing it
ok im getting sick of this crap. listen people, the top players in sc2 were bw pros or very high level foreigners. Go figure huh its already proven broodwar players are the best at sc2 why the hell should anyone care now?
There wasnt anything called "high level foreigners" in BW and yes b-team pros, not A-teamers.
Depends on when you look. If after 2006, then I agree. But before 2006, there was a small handful that could be competitive, though the infrastructure was not in place to allow for the degree of cross-scene interaction that we have today for SC2. Of course, they couldn't compete against the likes of BoxeR, NaDa, YellOw, Reach, and others, but they could remain competitive against lesser A-teamers.
On April 27 2012 10:27 justsayinbro wrote: Am I the only one who is more excited to see the end of Elephant in the room with flash's transition? I mean leading up to his first broadcasted match there will be more of this debate but once flash shows how he will actually play one of you guys will be wrong while other is right
nah, unless flash 100% dominates everyone everytime(and everyone knows that won't happen) people wouldn't concede that argument, and if flash or practically every bw pro tanks and fails bw fanboys would still make excuses about how sc2 requires no skill or the pro's don't even care/like sc2 or whatever. This particular divide will never get closure cause regardless of the truth some people won't admit to seeing it
ok im getting sick of this crap. listen people, the top players in sc2 were bw pros or very high level foreigners. Go figure huh its already proven broodwar players are the best at sc2 why the hell should anyone care now?
There wasnt anything called "high level foreigners" in BW and yes b-team pros, not A-teamers.
Depends on when you look. If after 2006, then I agree. But before 2006, there was a small handful that could be competitive, though the infrastructure was not in place to allow for the degree of cross-scene interaction that we have today for SC2. Of course, they couldn't compete against the likes of BoxeR, NaDa, YellOw, Reach, and others, but they could remain competitive against lesser A-teamers.
On April 27 2012 10:27 justsayinbro wrote: Am I the only one who is more excited to see the end of Elephant in the room with flash's transition? I mean leading up to his first broadcasted match there will be more of this debate but once flash shows how he will actually play one of you guys will be wrong while other is right
nah, unless flash 100% dominates everyone everytime(and everyone knows that won't happen) people wouldn't concede that argument, and if flash or practically every bw pro tanks and fails bw fanboys would still make excuses about how sc2 requires no skill or the pro's don't even care/like sc2 or whatever. This particular divide will never get closure cause regardless of the truth some people won't admit to seeing it
ok im getting sick of this crap. listen people, the top players in sc2 were bw pros or very high level foreigners. Go figure huh its already proven broodwar players are the best at sc2 why the hell should anyone care now?
There wasnt anything called "high level foreigners" in BW and yes b-team pros, not A-teamers.
Depends on when you look. If after 2006, then I agree. But before 2006, there was a small handful that could be competitive, though the infrastructure was not in place to allow for the degree of cross-scene interaction that we have today for SC2. Of course, they couldn't compete against the likes of BoxeR, NaDa, YellOw, Reach, and others, but they could remain competitive against lesser A-teamers.
Pj WCG 2007, never forget
Ah yes, the Chinese players tend to be a major wild card. Didn't a few do pretty well at an IEF event a few years back?
It will be really interesting to put a top BW pro to the test in SC2, and not one that has fallen out of favor for a few years. I have no doubt that he is a top 32 contender, but I wouldn't be surprised if he loses to a 2nd best player on an established SC2 team first.
On April 28 2012 00:29 Belha wrote: Bisu changing to T is just a tradegy for P players. Also is a sign of what top top koreans think of race balance and potential.
Is it really set in stone that he's fully switching to T?
It wouldn't make sense for him to play P because the multitasking and micro control style of T suits him much better. Playing P would be a complete waste of his talent. Just imagine somebody who multi-drops and pushes like MMA, but has MKP's marine control and aggression. Only that Bisu has 5x better multitask than MMA, and can manually click 2 dragoons and right click on a spider mine, when there are 3 spider mines being laid down at a time with 6 dragoons, while macro-ing, sniping a tank with a 3 dragoon flank and teching arbiters.
Its weird though, all races suit Flash better in one way or the other. P for the turtle late game, T for the timing attacks and weird openings, Z for the macro and game sense.
Zerg doesn't suit Fantasy at all.
why doesnt it suit fantasy at all? he can build extractors around the map and enjoy his gg timing.Anyway watching a progamer playing off race maybe an interesting idea after all.
Hahaha. Floating buildings to the corner of the map still works better. You even have stalemate now, oh god.
Fantasy loves his drops, aggression and weird builds, I can't imagine Fanta playing a standard macro turtly game.
It doesnt suit Fantasy due to all the bio units.
But he can select more than 12 units now xd
And also to all the people saying we're going to make excuses if Flash loses - I'll eat my hat if he ends up sucking at SC2
I think it's unwise to think the BW pros are switching anytime soon. There really isn't that much evidence yet, it's mostly just widespread rumors and hype. As our good friend Carl Sagan said, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
On April 28 2012 12:42 Darkman wrote: I think it's unwise to think the BW pros are switching anytime soon. There really isn't that much evidence yet, it's mostly just widespread rumors and hype. As our good friend Carl Sagan said, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
On April 28 2012 12:42 Darkman wrote: I think it's unwise to think the BW pros are switching anytime soon. There really isn't that much evidence yet, it's mostly just widespread rumors and hype. As our good friend Carl Sagan said, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
The fact that all the coaches saying it's happening, the fact that they're all practicing, the fact that they are having SC2 theory classes, that Blizz/GOM/kespa are in bed together for SC2... what more exactly do you require?
On April 27 2012 21:11 Voltaire wrote: Flash would need at least 3 months of hardcore practice to be able to compete with the current top pros.
You should remember that current pros were cleaning toilets in team houses. I think Flash could be up there within a month if he gave it 100% in practice, but i doubt it as he still plays BW. Also Flash's skill might be above sc2 skill cap, which means he might perform just average among pros, because he can't really use his full potential. I mean there are specific attributes that make Flash perfect in bw that might not fully transfer into sc2.
When he can do things like this
(which is impossible because the AI was using over 1k apm iirc ) then you can say anyone is above SC2 skill cap.
That's a flawed argument because a human can never approach this kind of micro, no matter how much he trains. There's just no way you can stutter step 20 individual units at a time seperately, unless you are a computer. Of course there's marine splits, but not like this and it will never be possible so its not part of the skillcap attainable by a human.
I think in some cases in that video (not all obv), a human controlling the zerg units would actually do better than an ai. Humans can make better tactical decisions-- going for a surround, splitting lings into several groups, etc, whereas an ai follows a pre-programmed split. Sure a human can't make that many actions per minute, but it's not the only factor.
The discussion about people reaching the skill ceiling is silly imo. It's like how some people in the late 1800s thought all technology had been discovered, and we were at the pinnacle of human potential.
It will be very cool if all the top BW players form a clan and hopefully a team. Then when they compete in team leagues, shits will fly. Quite exciting to see that happening :D
On April 27 2012 10:27 justsayinbro wrote: Am I the only one who is more excited to see the end of Elephant in the room with flash's transition? I mean leading up to his first broadcasted match there will be more of this debate but once flash shows how he will actually play one of you guys will be wrong while other is right
nah, unless flash 100% dominates everyone everytime(and everyone knows that won't happen) people wouldn't concede that argument, and if flash or practically every bw pro tanks and fails bw fanboys would still make excuses about how sc2 requires no skill or the pro's don't even care/like sc2 or whatever. This particular divide will never get closure cause regardless of the truth some people won't admit to seeing it
ok im getting sick of this crap. listen people, the top players in sc2 were bw pros or very high level foreigners. Go figure huh its already proven broodwar players are the best at sc2 why the hell should anyone care now?
There wasnt anything called "high level foreigners" in BW and yes b-team pros, not A-teamers.
This. The best foreigners were equal to B/C lvl Koreans. The A/S lvl Koreans could literally play with 1 hand and beat the best foreigners and still complain it was too easy. Thats how far the skill gap was.
Am i the olny one ,who thinks that the timing of the switch is ... meh? i mean if they switch ,even players like Flash, Jeadong or Bisu would need some time, like 3 months, to reach their personal max skill level and then Wings of Liberty has max. another 6 months before the first addons hits. Wouldn`t be it wiser if they would play and train Heart of the Swarm and then switch?
On April 28 2012 18:28 Humbalumba wrote: Am i the olny one ,who thinks that the timing of the switch is ... meh? i mean if they switch ,even players like Flash, Jeadong or Bisu would need some time, like 3 months, to reach their personal max skill level and then Wings of Liberty has max. another 6 months before the first addons hits. Wouldn`t be it wiser if they would play and train Heart of the Swarm and then switch?
what if they have access to hots right now and they are training to get a head start? that's my conspiracy theory at least.
On April 28 2012 18:28 Humbalumba wrote: Am i the olny one ,who thinks that the timing of the switch is ... meh? i mean if they switch ,even players like Flash, Jeadong or Bisu would need some time, like 3 months, to reach their personal max skill level and then Wings of Liberty has max. another 6 months before the first addons hits. Wouldn`t be it wiser if they would play and train Heart of the Swarm and then switch?
what if they have access to hots right now and they are training to get a head start? that's my conspiracy theory at least.
this probably is oddly closer to the truth since the threads have popped up with HOTS beta being close around the corner. It might not be that they have access now, but more that its quite possible a reset in the meta game will be happening soon anyways.
EPT
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