Hi guys, this is a really a fun build I've been doing for some time now; the core army composition is Raven Viking Banshee - in that order. The opening (reaper/marauder/medivac) is a strong, unique one that is really effective with good micro. With a quick third, and solid defense, the build sets the stage for an often confusing and effective mid-game versus zerg opponents.
Please let me know if you have any questions and CONSTRUCTIVE feedback - I will not be responding to otherwise negative responses that are not beneficial to the thread. This build may not work at the highest levels, but I am sharing it for MAINSTREAM players I have had success with it at a Diamond/Masters level. It's really fun to pull off and to watch! Cheers.
Build Order
10 Supply Depot 12 Barracks 14 Barracks 15 Orbital Command 15 Refinery x 2 16 Marine 16 Supply Depot 18 Tech Lab x 2 20 Reaper x 2 23 Command Center ---> Delay 1 SCV 23 Factory 24 Reaper x 2 28 Marauder x 2 30 Starport 33 Orbital Command 33 Reaper x 2 36 Medivac ---> Move OC to natural 39 Command Center
Now...
o Move barracks to make a wall at natural o Pull 8 SCV's to natural and build 2 x refineries, ebay (wall), bunker (behind), supply depot o Push out with your 8 minute timing attack force o Put factory and starport on tech labs o Start making tanks (5/6 + siege tech), marines, 2 x bunkers, turrets as minerals allow o Move 3rd CC to appropriate base, quickly make into PF and put down turrets o Make sure all bases have 4-6 missile turrets - more if you suspect heavy muta play o Research Hi-Sec Autotracking and Building Armor from the ebay o Lay down 5 starports as money allows, and begin Corvid Reactor research o 5 starports should have a tech lab, 1 core reactor o Produce non-stop ravens, vikings, banshee's (rough ratio 4:2:1) o Research Durable Materials and Seeker Missile o Based on what you scout and tech switches produce units accordingly (ie: air based more vikings, heavy lings/ground more banshees) o Once minerals allow build additional CC's and 6-10 barracks
Analysis - Early Game
The build does a few things early on; zerg typically will produce lings/spines in order to counter "2 rax" aggression that they scout. Then, on seeing reapers, zerg will often build more lings/spines to counter the harass, especially if you kill early lings with your first 2 reapers. This helps reduce early zerg economy. If the zerg player has a large amount of lings, to the point that it is restricting your ability to use reapers for map control, be cautious with the reapers and keep them close or in your natural until you push out (you've already done "damage" as he has less workers due to the lings).
One aspect of the build I like is the ability to counter early bust aggression without having to overly react. The reason why I do 2 reaper, 2 reaper, 2 marauder, 2 reaper (in that order) is to have some marauders available to counter early roach pressure or bain busts. That coupled with creative walling at the main, and then natural should help a lot of players with early game aggression.
During the 8 minute timing attack try to skirt edges as much as possible. Use mineral/extractor gaps to limit the surface area of the army to lings and be careful to not let the medivac be focused by queens. You can also use the vision of the medivac to micro the units up/down cliffs. If there are more than 3 or so roaches, do what damage you can and leave. If there are is an overwhelming amount of lings, same thing applies. Often if I don't do damage, I go to the expected third expansion to deny it, and keep them "pinned" as I establish my own third.
And what others have said is stilll detrimental to this:
- early mutas wreck your whole build - infestors own your whole army -any zerg who can macro will kill you even if he just ignores your ravens and goes full roach ling whatever
You should stop posting your neat little battle.net guides on tl. Just try to atleast post something solid instead of cheese into cheese into mass my opponent can't scout and macro so I win.
On April 14 2012 08:44 OmegaKnetus wrote: lol how often do you want to post this?
And what others have said is stilll detrimental to this:
- early mutas wreck your whole build - infestors own your whole army -any zerg who can macro will kill you even if he just ignores your ravens and goes full roach ling whatever
You should stop posting your neat little battle.net guides on tl. Just try to atleast post something solid instead of cheese into cheese into mass my opponent can't scout and macro so I win.
The moderators advised that I put more analysis into the post, which I have done, and will continue to do.
The build does well against early muta play, in fact that might be the best thing to face as zerg does not expect the level of defense. The combination of LOTS of early turrets and building range/armor upgrades often quickly nullifies muta harass, and in fact some players keen on continuing the attacks often lose a lot of units/economy.
Against an infestor armies you clearly need to be careful, but you are wrong as I have won many games against zerg opponents using infestors.
Clearly any build/style can be beat, but there are lots of variables such as terrain and decision making that will ultimately lead to victory or defeat.
Thanks for you input, and lets try to keep things positive
Is third time in a row a new record? Closed section is going to look pretty funny with 3 threads having the exactly same title
Mass Raven is a really gimmicky strategy, not something to actually practice for, I sometimes do it in teamgames for fun but it's not really a legit strategy against any Zerg that can use fungal.
Haters gonna hate, I mean it's not a reliable build, but some people might not enjoy that, they enjoy the quirky stuff the game has to offer. As long as there is detail in your guide, I see no reason for it to not be posted.
I think this belongs on the bnet forums where the standards for builds are a bit.. lower.
Generally, well received builds on these forums are ones that can work up to pro level, not just diamond league. People here come to seriously improve (a lot of aspiring master players trying to get GM) and not just "have fun" with builds that have never been tested above diamond MMR.
threads like these are why pro's like Idra/ Artosis make fun of the TL strategy forum. They just don't belong here..
As you post a guide I'd expect some reliable refined build. Your build is about having fun so why not make a thread for every gimmick mothership hidden cloack expo build (, not sure what you'd mean by mainstream but that's not important). Glhf with the build, sure fun style to play especially when opponents will go wtfisgoingon!?
I saw someone do this but without viking, he built turrets and PF everywhere on map and threw autoturrets all over the map. Sure fun to try in koth or against friend.
On April 14 2012 09:21 DKR wrote: Haters gonna hate, I mean it's not a reliable build, but some people might not enjoy that, they enjoy the quirky stuff the game has to offer. As long as there is detail in your guide, I see no reason for it to not be posted.
Thanks, and you're right - it's not the be-all-end-all of builds. It's for fun! It does work though, especially Diamond and below. It's entertaining and something different from standard play.
This build is awsome! I can not wait to try this out. Mass Raven is probably the most fun way to play the game - the problem is how do you mass them without dying before you get a critical mass. Opening like this may solve that problem since you seem quite safe early and midgame. Still I would like to see how this build deals with mass infestors. Mixing in banshees is probably a must in order to kill the infestors before they can chain-fungal your Ravens.
Who cares it it works at pro level? If you wish to play like pros go copy pros. This way of playing seems much more fun than the conventional builds.
Your reapers will be out faster. Here's an example of the opening, it's my TvT opening and surprisingly works well against Z for what you're trying to accomplish.
I don't know why you delay gas, but if you just cut an scv early you can get gas earlier, and have a better, more streamline economy and still achieve the same goals, if not faster.
As I wrote last time you posted this godawful idea of an opening: ********* Watched the first video, while shaking my head and feeling shameful on behalf of both players. I´d like to see a video showing the actual ladder search, to prove you´re playing against master ranked players and not some custom games against low leaguers or friends. There were so many things (on both sides) that really made me question if both of you are even above diamond. This seems more like a gold/platinum play for me to be honest. Or maybe at very best low diamond opponent playing random and not very familiar with zerg.
The reason of this is that the zerg goes for mutas, and his muta timing is 3 minute late and when he finally gets them out, he keeps suiciding them to turrets where you had plenty of holes in your main he could have abused. He knew you made that planetary at behind the rocks and should have felt comfortable just taking 3rd and 4th since you even had a bloody planetary at your ramp and no offensive capabilities. Similary your own play is really lacking, floating 2k gas for 5 minutes isn´t a good opening even if you´re intentionally saving up. Anyways talking anymore of this would give me a severe headache. Your idea is cute, but its horribly executed and your opponents are even worse. ******
watched the 2nd video as well, another clueless zerg - also going for mutas and also being extremely late and ineffective with them. Both videos show zergs that drones too little, expands too late, and have late timings and bad replies for your mass raven.
Where as many others just are saying "fast muta wreck you" and "infestors wreck you" - the truth is that zerg should have taken 4-5 bases around 12 minute with 80-90 drones and sick creep spread - then infestor hydra along with some spores would pretty much shut you down while teching for ultras. Hydras on creep are extremely good vs ravens/vikings and are more easy to spread than lings, mutas and corrupters. Ultras lategame will laugh at planetaries and autoturrets and even seeker missiles wont do much, as the splash wont hit more than max 2 ultras at a time.
PS when people say early mutas, they don´t mean 13-14 minute mutas like in your videos. Standard is 10.30 to 11.30, and in your first video your first turrets finishes 11.50.
The fact that u won games against players who went infestor and is a clear indicator for your build being awesome.
srsly, you take a random opening and transition it into a unit comp consisting of 1 unit. From now on i say: go for 3 gate agression into mass voidray vs terran. Because its fun. I even won against terrans going marines with it, so it works.
What I don't understand is why you would go for Marauders and Reapers when your tech path is so gas-intensive. Why not the normal 1rax expo into reactored Hellions? You can take all 4 gas and save it up while making gas-free Marines and Hellions. You only need gas for Stim/Combat and upgrades...all the units cost no gas.
EPT
I have had success with it at a Diamond/Masters level. It's really fun to pull off and to watch! Cheers.
