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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP. |
On March 25 2012 04:19 FallDownMarigold wrote:
so, pretty much, seems like voluntary manslaughter. zimmerman should cut a deal and go for involuntary, take 5 or so years, get out in 2 or 3, done deal.
certain police should be fired, and possibly jailed, to top it off. IMO
if i were his attorney:
- move the case way the hell out of this county and see if i can get a white jury. (this is almost a no-brainer given the media coverage; i dont even know how they will find a county that hasnt been prejudiced.)
- look at my jury. older, white males? try it. military, businessmen? try it. republicans, NRA members? do i have to say it? mothers, blacks? plea bargain. democrats? iffy.
- i think he has an excellent self defense argument based on the "John" witness and any sob story he can make up since there really is no contradictory evidence. he has some considerable credibility issues it sounds like (leaving his car after the dispatcher said they dont need him to, approaching the kid with a concealed weapon, contradictory statements to police), but probably can get around those. biggest thing will be him going on the stand and saying "im sorry for what i did."
- i think he can put doubt in a few jurors, and thats all that is necessary.
as for police:
firings may be required. jail is somewhere between highly unlikely and impossible (immunities).
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On March 25 2012 04:19 NotSorry wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 04:12 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 25 2012 04:10 Kaitlin wrote:When I started to read that article, I noticed immediately that it made no mention of the race of the man who made the threat against Lee. Then I continued to read and the entire article is devoid of any mention of anyone's race, whatsoever. Interesting, given the media has done nothing but point out the races involved, even as far as calling Zimmerman white, when he's not. good. i dont want this to turn into a race war. fucking riots in LA. =( Don't let this fool you, they want this to be a race war, they just have picked their side and will do what they can to make them look like the good guys.
might i just ask, who are the "they" that wants a race war?
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On March 25 2012 04:21 NotSorry wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 04:19 FallDownMarigold wrote:
so, pretty much, seems like voluntary manslaughter. zimmerman should cut a deal and go for involuntary, take 5 or so years, get out in 2 or 3, done deal.
certain police should be fired, and possibly jailed, to top it off. IMO Except for what the evidence and eye witnesses currently depict is an example of self defense, not voluntary manslaughter.
Except for what the evidence and eye witnesses currently depict is inconsistent. Many people quote the one known as "John" while conveniently forgetting that the 13 year old black boy Austin walking his dog also saw part of the incident, and according to him they were both on the ground but seperated, and said he thought Trayvon was the one calling for help. Neither witness saw a whole lot of the fight to determine anything. And the fight lasted 1 minute from end of phone call at 7:16 to when police arrived at 7:17.
There are so many inconsistencies from all sides in this case.
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On March 25 2012 04:19 NotSorry wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 04:12 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 25 2012 04:10 Kaitlin wrote:When I started to read that article, I noticed immediately that it made no mention of the race of the man who made the threat against Lee. Then I continued to read and the entire article is devoid of any mention of anyone's race, whatsoever. Interesting, given the media has done nothing but point out the races involved, even as far as calling Zimmerman white, when he's not. good. i dont want this to turn into a race war. fucking riots in LA. =( Don't let this fool you, they want this to be a race war, they just have picked their side and will do what they can to make them look like the good guys.
It's just that they can't make it fit the standard narrative of white-racist-murders-black-teen any more.
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On March 25 2012 04:27 pluvos wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 04:19 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 04:12 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 25 2012 04:10 Kaitlin wrote:When I started to read that article, I noticed immediately that it made no mention of the race of the man who made the threat against Lee. Then I continued to read and the entire article is devoid of any mention of anyone's race, whatsoever. Interesting, given the media has done nothing but point out the races involved, even as far as calling Zimmerman white, when he's not. good. i dont want this to turn into a race war. fucking riots in LA. =( Don't let this fool you, they want this to be a race war, they just have picked their side and will do what they can to make them look like the good guys. might i just ask, who are the "they" that wants a race war?
The media, have you not been seeing how much they are playing this up as a blind racist attack from a White Nazi on some poor Black child? It's all just about viewers for them.
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On March 25 2012 04:28 Freddybear wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 04:19 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 04:12 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 25 2012 04:10 Kaitlin wrote:When I started to read that article, I noticed immediately that it made no mention of the race of the man who made the threat against Lee. Then I continued to read and the entire article is devoid of any mention of anyone's race, whatsoever. Interesting, given the media has done nothing but point out the races involved, even as far as calling Zimmerman white, when he's not. good. i dont want this to turn into a race war. fucking riots in LA. =( Don't let this fool you, they want this to be a race war, they just have picked their side and will do what they can to make them look like the good guys. It's just that they can't make it fit the standard narrative of white-racist-murders-black-teen any more.
It's more like the ol' black-kid-gets-screwed-over-for-being-black. That old song.
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On March 25 2012 04:28 Fyrewolf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 04:21 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 04:19 FallDownMarigold wrote:
so, pretty much, seems like voluntary manslaughter. zimmerman should cut a deal and go for involuntary, take 5 or so years, get out in 2 or 3, done deal.
certain police should be fired, and possibly jailed, to top it off. IMO Except for what the evidence and eye witnesses currently depict is an example of self defense, not voluntary manslaughter. Except for what the evidence and eye witnesses currently depict is inconsistent. Many people quote the one known as "John" while convienetly forgetting that the 13 year old black boy Austin walking his dog also saw part of the incident, and according to him they were both on the ground but seperated. Neither witness saw a whole lot of the fight to determine anything. And the fight lasted 1 minute from end of phone call at 7:16 to when police arrived at 7:17. There are so many inconsistencies from all sides in this case.
Even if this was a murder trial you only have to prove reasonable doubt for the defendant, can anyone at this point even blindly bias deny that there isn't at the very least reasonable doubt?
However it's not a murder trial is a case of self defense.
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On March 25 2012 04:28 Freddybear wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 04:19 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 04:12 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 25 2012 04:10 Kaitlin wrote:When I started to read that article, I noticed immediately that it made no mention of the race of the man who made the threat against Lee. Then I continued to read and the entire article is devoid of any mention of anyone's race, whatsoever. Interesting, given the media has done nothing but point out the races involved, even as far as calling Zimmerman white, when he's not. good. i dont want this to turn into a race war. fucking riots in LA. =( Don't let this fool you, they want this to be a race war, they just have picked their side and will do what they can to make them look like the good guys. It's just that they can't make it fit the standard narrative of white-racist-murders-black-teen any more.
Right, if only Hispanics were allowed to be racist. Fortunately for them, my race has a lock down on prejudice.
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On March 25 2012 04:28 Fyrewolf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 04:21 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 04:19 FallDownMarigold wrote:
so, pretty much, seems like voluntary manslaughter. zimmerman should cut a deal and go for involuntary, take 5 or so years, get out in 2 or 3, done deal.
certain police should be fired, and possibly jailed, to top it off. IMO Except for what the evidence and eye witnesses currently depict is an example of self defense, not voluntary manslaughter. Except for what the evidence and eye witnesses currently depict is inconsistent. Many people quote the one known as "John" while conveniently forgetting that the 13 year old black boy Austin walking his dog also saw part of the incident, and according to him they were both on the ground but seperated. Neither witness saw a whole lot of the fight to determine anything. And the fight lasted 1 minute from end of phone call at 7:16 to when police arrived at 7:17. There are so many inconsistencies from all sides in this case.
"I heard screaming and crying for help," he said. "I heard, 'Help me.' "
It was dark, and the boy did not see how the fight started, in fact, he only saw one person, a man in a red shirt — Zimmerman — who was on the ground.
The boy said he is not sure who called for help. After a moment, his dog escaped, and he turned to catch it and a few seconds later heard a gunshot, he said.
"When I heard the shot, the screaming stopped," he said.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,5792590,full.story
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Phreak we really need to find a better hobby than trying to bring logic into events like this, maybe it's better we just leave them as blind emotional raging outlets crying for the death of more people.
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On March 25 2012 04:32 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 04:28 Fyrewolf wrote:On March 25 2012 04:21 NotSorry wrote:On March 25 2012 04:19 FallDownMarigold wrote:
so, pretty much, seems like voluntary manslaughter. zimmerman should cut a deal and go for involuntary, take 5 or so years, get out in 2 or 3, done deal.
certain police should be fired, and possibly jailed, to top it off. IMO Except for what the evidence and eye witnesses currently depict is an example of self defense, not voluntary manslaughter. Except for what the evidence and eye witnesses currently depict is inconsistent. Many people quote the one known as "John" while conveniently forgetting that the 13 year old black boy Austin walking his dog also saw part of the incident, and according to him they were both on the ground but seperated. Neither witness saw a whole lot of the fight to determine anything. And the fight lasted 1 minute from end of phone call at 7:16 to when police arrived at 7:17. There are so many inconsistencies from all sides in this case. Show nested quote +"I heard screaming and crying for help," he said. "I heard, 'Help me.' "
It was dark, and the boy did not see how the fight started, in fact, he only saw one person, a man in a red shirt — Zimmerman — who was on the ground.
The boy said he is not sure who called for help. After a moment, his dog escaped, and he turned to catch it and a few seconds later heard a gunshot, he said.
"When I heard the shot, the screaming stopped," he said. http://www.sun-sentinel.com/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,5792590,full.story
Hmm interesting. I saw another article, as well as an interview with the boy that said different, but I can't seem to figure out which one in my browser history they are since I've read so many articles now. Thank you for posting that one though.
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On March 25 2012 04:35 NotSorry wrote:
Phreak we really need to find a better hobby than trying to bring logic into events like this, maybe it's better we just leave them as blind emotional raging outlets crying for the death of more people.
im watching MLG. =D
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On March 25 2012 04:39 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 04:35 NotSorry wrote:
Phreak we really need to find a better hobby than trying to bring logic into events like this, maybe it's better we just leave them as blind emotional raging outlets crying for the death of more people. im watching MLG. =D
Me too, damn you extra monitors allowing me to multitask!
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On March 25 2012 04:35 NotSorry wrote:
Phreak we really need to find a better hobby than trying to bring logic into events like this, maybe it's better we just leave them as blind emotional raging outlets crying for the death of more people.
I'm sorry, but I don't think anyone has called for more death or more vigilante justices in the last ... ten, fifteen pages?
Maybe you should take your superiority-complex and hyperbole down a couple of notches.
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On March 25 2012 04:43 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 04:35 NotSorry wrote:
Phreak we really need to find a better hobby than trying to bring logic into events like this, maybe it's better we just leave them as blind emotional raging outlets crying for the death of more people. I'm sorry, but I don't think anyone has called for more death or more vigilante justices in the last ... ten, fifteen pages? Maybe you should take your superiority-complex and hyperbole down a couple of notches.
Don't worry about it. They go ad hominem a lot.
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On March 25 2012 04:46 visual77 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 04:43 Defacer wrote:On March 25 2012 04:35 NotSorry wrote:
Phreak we really need to find a better hobby than trying to bring logic into events like this, maybe it's better we just leave them as blind emotional raging outlets crying for the death of more people. I'm sorry, but I don't think anyone has called for more death or more vigilante justices in the last ... ten, fifteen pages? Maybe you should take your superiority-complex and hyperbole down a couple of notches. Don't worry about it. They go ad hominem a lot.
Ye Olde Flame Bait.
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On March 25 2012 04:40 NotSorry wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 04:39 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 25 2012 04:35 NotSorry wrote:
Phreak we really need to find a better hobby than trying to bring logic into events like this, maybe it's better we just leave them as blind emotional raging outlets crying for the death of more people. im watching MLG. =D Me too, damn you extra monitors allowing me to multitask!
Indeed, pretty awesome games going on, though I was distracted combing my history for ten min for the interview I saw with austin on my second monitor to no success. At least the awesomeness of the games can overshadow the tragedy of incident for some respite this weekend.
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On March 25 2012 04:43 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 25 2012 04:35 NotSorry wrote:
Phreak we really need to find a better hobby than trying to bring logic into events like this, maybe it's better we just leave them as blind emotional raging outlets crying for the death of more people. I'm sorry, but I don't think anyone has called for more death or more vigilante justices in the last ... ten, fifteen pages? Maybe you should take your superiority-complex and hyperbole down a couple of notches.
Check again I only had to go back 2 pages.
Yea Huk is playing some real solid games this weekend
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I'm exhausted reading and thinking about this. There is no excuse for Zimmerman's paranoia and leaving his vehicle, especially with police on the way. Stand Your Ground does not apply (the fact it got brought up is obfuscation really. Same with the "order" from dispatcher semantic dispute). There are conflicting eyewitness reports, (half of whom hid inside their homes, saw only moments of the actual course of events) and to be honest because they are eyewitness reports they should actually carry minimal weight and consideration. We can debate whether Zimmerman was racist and analyze the phone audio and all that bullshit but seriously.
A young man is needlessly dead. His killer, who originally lied to police, was not even detained for a single evening. Why is there so much debate over the altercation and law and semantics when justice is nowhere to be found.
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On March 25 2012 05:19 Chessz wrote:
I'm exhausted reading and thinking about this. There is no excuse for Zimmerman's paranoia and leaving his vehicle, especially with police on the way. Stand Your Ground does not apply (the fact it got brought up is obfuscation really. Same with the "order" from dispatcher semantic dispute). There are conflicting eyewitness reports, (half of whom hid inside their homes, saw only moments of the actual course of events) and to be honest because they are eyewitness reports they should actually carry minimal weight and consideration. We can debate whether Zimmerman was racist and analyze the phone audio and all that bullshit but seriously.
A young man is needlessly dead. His killer, who originally lied to police, was not even detained for a single evening. Why is there so much debate over the altercation and law and semantics when justice is nowhere to be found.
Your sense of justice seems pretty warped when there is no proof that anyone did anything outside of the law.
There is no law that says if you are walking around in my neighbor that I can't engage you in a conversation and ask you what you are doing?
There is no law that says I can't defend myself from immediate threats to my health.
There is no law if I wanna be a racist either.
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