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The subject of this thread is not a license to roll out your inaccurate, misinformed, poorly conceived, tired, and downright offensive theories about race relations. |
On March 09 2012 09:09 ligand wrote:
I can't believe so many people are saying it doesn't matter. I personally don't care what language Orb (or anyone for that matter) decides to use on stream but it looks bad on EG and offends a lot of people and that is why it matters. Imagine if a movie star like George Clooney said, "yeah this guy was pulling some dumb nigger shit on me earlier" while at a restaurant and everyone at the restaurant heard what he said. Do you think he'd ever get a movie role again? Most likely not. Just because it's in your free time doesn't mean it should be excused. Add that to the fact that Orb lied to management and you have something even worse.
I'm pretty sure that George Clooney would still get a movie role again. Maybe some Bad PR but he's not going to be expelled from the industry.
OT: The issue I have with this is the fact that he lied to his management and didn't own up to anyone to what he did (until there was concrete evidence it was him). The idea that this can be compared to Destiny is kind of laughable, Destiny is completely transparent and everyone knows that he's going to troll and be BM, the fact that Orb tried to cover his ass and only came clean after getting found it should be the main concern with people here I feel.
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On March 09 2012 10:25 Chessz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 10:17 Serpico wrote:On March 09 2012 10:15 Chessz wrote:
Honestly, I think the responses to this thread are revealing as to how much people actually care about race issues and racism still at large, and how white/privileged (or even male/heteronormative regarding "fag") our particular community is. Not saying that orb is a racist, just i understand that he's indoctrinated by the culture he comes from to think these things are okay or not a big deal, and half of the posters here suffer from the same ignorance.
If you honestly deep-down turn the other cheek to uses of these words in ways that are meant to be inflammatory and derogatory or think it's not a big deal because "people say it on the internet all the time" and you don't see how it's a problem that someone who represents the SC2 community is saying these things, please never talk to me until you can broaden your perspective and educate yourself.
You can go ahead and attack my high horse but at least it's a progressive, tolerant one. In the meantime, lets never hang out
Yeah...you're trying too hard to make this more than it is. But keep bringing the sociology 101 garbage into this. Your incrededible arrogance is pretty apparent though, but at least you can hide behind "Crusader of justice against racists" as your shield to hide you from all attacks. The reality is he said something bad and should apologize. Other than that, punishment is up to EG and isn't our business because it's something only they can control. I'm not hiding from attacks. I just don't tolerate racial slurs or associate with people who use them. I've never watched orb's stream and quickly turned off Destiny's, especially when he went on his whole embarrassing language rant. and I agree with you that he should apologize, and that it's EG's business. And this isn't "sociology 101 garbage," as if that garbage was any less connected to the "reality" you assert is actually happening. We can be mature right? If not being another immature white gaming nerd with reckless language makes me arrogant fine. If trying to be actively anti-racist/racism instead of just going on another day of saying, "no i'm not racist. things are ok!" then yes I'm arrogant. Arrogant and really fucking proud.
Again, you're propping yourself up to be more than you think you are. You act like this has some kind of societal consequence or there's some bigger picture here to look at when there isnt. You're blowing something up that really is about someone saying something cruel when they were raging. You're about 10 levels too high strung about all of this. He made a mistake and should apologize, like everyone is saying. This has nothing to do with being racist as much as it does with being immature.
You're trying to cut off everyone at the pass by saying all this about you not being on a high horse...but you really are, and that's the funny part. You aren't being some kind of activist or adult by going off on something that has already exploded.
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I hope orb doesn't get into too much trouble, I like him a lot as a caster. You really can't do this though, especially if you're trying to be a big member of the community.
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On March 09 2012 10:25 Oiseaux wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 10:22 VanGarde wrote:
Let whomever never bm's cast the first stone So you want Sheth to throw stones at us?
Dont forget White-ra
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On March 09 2012 10:25 Chessz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 10:17 Serpico wrote:On March 09 2012 10:15 Chessz wrote:
Honestly, I think the responses to this thread are revealing as to how much people actually care about race issues and racism still at large, and how white/privileged (or even male/heteronormative regarding "fag") our particular community is. Not saying that orb is a racist, just i understand that he's indoctrinated by the culture he comes from to think these things are okay or not a big deal, and half of the posters here suffer from the same ignorance.
If you honestly deep-down turn the other cheek to uses of these words in ways that are meant to be inflammatory and derogatory or think it's not a big deal because "people say it on the internet all the time" and you don't see how it's a problem that someone who represents the SC2 community is saying these things, please never talk to me until you can broaden your perspective and educate yourself.
You can go ahead and attack my high horse but at least it's a progressive, tolerant one. In the meantime, lets never hang out
Yeah...you're trying too hard to make this more than it is. But keep bringing the sociology 101 garbage into this. Your incrededible arrogance is pretty apparent though, but at least you can hide behind "Crusader of justice against racists" as your shield to hide you from all attacks. The reality is he said something bad and should apologize. Other than that, punishment is up to EG and isn't our business because it's something only they can control. I'm not hiding from attacks. I just don't tolerate racial slurs or associate with people who use them. I've never watched orb's stream and quickly turned off Destiny's, especially when he went on his whole embarrassing language rant. and I agree with you that he should apologize, and that it's EG's business. And this isn't "sociology 101 garbage," as if that garbage was any less connected to the "reality" you assert is actually happening. We can be mature right? If not being another immature white gaming nerd with reckless language makes me arrogant fine. If trying to be actively anti-racist/racism instead of just going on another day of saying, "no i'm not racist. things are ok!" then yes I'm arrogant. Arrogant and really fucking proud.
You are still hanging onto this "racial slurs = racism" bullshit. Anyone looking at this could see that his words represent anger and not racism. I'm not defending orb's actions but saying he should be pitchfork'd because hes a racist is just PC shit I thought people only say on FOX news.
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On March 09 2012 10:24 EuroRabbit wrote:
Keep this trash over on reddit were it belongs.
That community is a joke, they like to single people out and go on witch hunts to bury people in a world of hate. They should be excluded from the SC2 community, they add nothing and take away more then they give.
The hurt of being banished from your community is far worse than any offense that could be taken over the word 'nigga'. SC2 players are the most vengeful and unforgiving people on the internet, its hardly just on Reddit.
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On March 09 2012 10:20 VanGarde wrote:
Really? I have one problem with this discussion and it is that racism is dragged into it.
The words means nothing it is bm and that is all that is relevant to discuss, if you want to discuss whether or not a caster should bad manner on stream and on ladder that is one thing. Surely everyone is aware that orb tends to bm.
But I find it terribly overzealous how people jump on certain words. People who are angry and bm use different words that can be taboo, powerful or generally disliked. It is the point of using words in that way. Someone using nigger to curse at someone does not mean that they are actually a racist, someone using the word faggot to bm someone is not necessarily anti gay any less than someone who uses cunt to curse thinks that vaginas are something to be avoided.
Sure, debate whether or not orb should bm but just get over the bullshit about different words because it does not mean anything, guess what, my brother and a close friend of mine are homosexual and I use faggot when I curse, even around them. It does not mean anything in a context like this.
If words mean nothing then your post means nothing.
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On March 09 2012 10:17 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 10:11 Xcobidoo wrote:On March 09 2012 10:01 Mikey wrote:
Hi, If you recall the old IdrA rage from early sc2 and when he started streaming he was quite similar to this (Maybe not as far as using the word 'nigger') but he did use faggot, and fuck you, and bitch, and a lot of other foul or derogatory terms. If they let Greg slide, they should give orb a chance as well.
Just my opinion. The difference here is Orb is paid to talk and IdrA is paid to play. If you only hate the fact that IdrA is bm then you can still just watch him play and forget about the other stuff, Orb doesn't have that luxury. To put this in perspective, lots of people want Moletrap gone from GOM because he has a bit of a nasal voice and he sometimes screams when there's a big battle. They want him gone because they don't like the way he gets fucking excited? That to me is ridiculous. There are also probably a lot of people who want Moletrap gone for having a nasal voice that want Orb to stay even though he behaved this way, funny how that works out... Orb is paid to cast and act professional while he does so, which he's great at. This was from BEFORE he worked with EG. Not only that, it wasn't while he was casting at all. With your view on things, you could just say "If you only hate the fact that Orb is bm, you can still watch his casts and forget about the other stuff" which is actually easier than what you're saying to do with IdrA, as Orb doesn't BM while casting, but IdrA does BM while playing.Stop being so hypocritical community.
IdrA only really bm's when he's streaming ladder and so, apparently, does Orb. IdrA's job is to draw people and with that, sponsors. IdrA being IdrA has made a load of people watch him play tournaments for one of two reasons: a) watch him fail miserably because you hate the fact that he is bm or b) watch him win because he goes outside of the ordinary regarding progamers.
You won't watch Orb in the hope that he does a great cast, he's a supplement. Just like any other sports commentator out there. It's alright for players to be a bit rough around the edges because it sparks interest meaning more viewers. If a commentator would behave that way though, they'd be out in a second. I'm not saying that it's OK for a player to call someone "faggot" or "nigger" but we expect a higher standard regarding a commentator's language than we do a player's.
If this was in fact way before he got contracted by EG and perhaps even before he got this famous then it's just unfortunate for him but it doesn't change the fact that it is not right and should not be tolerated. The community, however, should not chose if he gets fired or not and I have not mentioned that either. In the end, though, the community is your source of income and if they are not willing to stand for it then business comes first.
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On March 09 2012 10:10 iCCup.Nove wrote:
Not going to read all 50 pages of this topic but here's my take on it.
I played Orb quite a bit during the beta and was on the receiving end of this sort language. What you guys need to realize was this all happened a long time ago, before Orb took esports seriously, before he even casted. Do any of you remember him when he first started streaming? He would talk trash about how bad his opponents were and rage about it in front of a couple hundred people.
As someone who used to hate Orb, I do ask that we move on from this and put it in the past seeing as that's actually when these events occurred. I watch the NASTL and Korean Weeklys quite a bit and I think orb has improved not only as a person but as a caster as well. It's a shame something like this had to be dug up and brought back to life to haunt him.
By the way SNSDYuri wasn't exactly the nicest player I ever came across either.
If it's necessary I can try to dig up replays from the beta, as I think I still have the folder on my hard drive.
I think for a lot of people the issue is not that he did it (even though imo that's kinda bad) but that he tried to pull the wool over everyone's eyes and lie about it. Had he apologized or cleared the air right off the bat, guarantee this wouldn't be a 50-something page thread.
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On March 09 2012 10:24 AntiGrav1ty wrote:
Funny thing is that if EG fires him they gonna get a load of shit from people who say they shouldn't have and if they dont people in this thread will demand EG action. Either way, EG is screwed :D
User was warned for this post
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Damn... this Community shouldnt watch most of the Hon/Dota2 streams :D
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why is he using destiny as an excuse for his behaviour, destiny is an entertainer so the n word loses its stink with him, with orb it seems weird and like there is something more than just jest behind it, we all make mistakes though, couldnt he use the C word, just as potent
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On March 09 2012 10:29 Bashion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 10:25 Oiseaux wrote:On March 09 2012 10:22 VanGarde wrote:
Let whomever never bm's cast the first stone So you want Sheth to throw stones at us? Dont forget White-ra
Well, it is a lil BM to say if you don't gg you don't have skill.
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On March 09 2012 10:30 mememolly wrote:
why is he using destiny as an excuse for his behaviour, destiny is an entertainer so the n word loses its stink with him, with orb it seems weird and like there is something more than just jest behind it, we all make mistakes though, couldnt he use the C word, just as potent
He shouldn't use either.
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On March 09 2012 10:25 Oiseaux wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 10:22 VanGarde wrote:
Let whomever never bm's cast the first stone So you want Sheth to throw stones at us?
Sheth used to be very bad mannered in broodwar, pretty much the reason he must have changed his Id from Chosen. Really cool how he turned it around though...
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Oh no we must all be perfect individuals to be part of this community. Or is that some of us are so bored we create drama out of nothing.
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On March 09 2012 10:29 Dental Floss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 10:20 VanGarde wrote:
Really? I have one problem with this discussion and it is that racism is dragged into it.
The words means nothing it is bm and that is all that is relevant to discuss, if you want to discuss whether or not a caster should bad manner on stream and on ladder that is one thing. Surely everyone is aware that orb tends to bm.
But I find it terribly overzealous how people jump on certain words. People who are angry and bm use different words that can be taboo, powerful or generally disliked. It is the point of using words in that way. Someone using nigger to curse at someone does not mean that they are actually a racist, someone using the word faggot to bm someone is not necessarily anti gay any less than someone who uses cunt to curse thinks that vaginas are something to be avoided.
Sure, debate whether or not orb should bm but just get over the bullshit about different words because it does not mean anything, guess what, my brother and a close friend of mine are homosexual and I use faggot when I curse, even around them. It does not mean anything in a context like this. If words mean nothing then your post means nothing.
Words mean only as much as is relative to their context.
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Wow this type of racism is just sickening. "such a nigger-like strategy" wtf was going on through his head when he said that after he lost... such a rager and a whiner
User was banned for this post.
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On March 09 2012 10:33 TheBlueMeaner wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 10:25 Oiseaux wrote:On March 09 2012 10:22 VanGarde wrote:
Let whomever never bm's cast the first stone So you want Sheth to throw stones at us? Sheth used to be very bad mannered in broodwar, pretty much the reason he must have changed his Id from Chosen. Really cool how he turned it around though...
Ah, well I'll be the first to admit I didn't follow BW.
And if anything that shows people do grow and it's worth giving people second chances.
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And its really funny how everyone keeps bringing Idra out, he is bad mannered at times, but I have never heard of him using racial slurs to insult his opponents...
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EPT
