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Orb, racist remarks on ladder and personal stream - Page 63

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The subject of this thread is not a license to roll out your inaccurate, misinformed, poorly conceived, tired, and downright offensive theories about race relations.
Onlinejaguar
Profile Joined April 2010
Australia2823 Posts
March 09 2012 01:40 GMT
#1241
He got a bit mad while laddering, who cares honestly? People need to grow up and not care about this shit.
Arcanewinds
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United Kingdom197 Posts
March 09 2012 01:40 GMT
#1242
Really don't care about this at all, sure the language is bad.. But it doesn't matter at all. Stuff like this happens almost every game on ladder :/

Orb should be spoken to, but not severely punished at all.
RampancyTW
Profile Joined August 2010
United States577 Posts
March 09 2012 01:41 GMT
#1243
On March 09 2012 10:38 jnsjr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2012 10:19 Esk23 wrote:
On March 09 2012 10:15 Chessz wrote:
Honestly, I think the responses to this thread are revealing as to how much people actually care about race issues and racism still at large, and how white/privileged (or even male/heteronormative regarding "fag") our particular community is. Not saying that orb is a racist, just i understand that he's indoctrinated by the culture he comes from to think these things are okay or not a big deal, and half of the posters here suffer from the same ignorance.

If you honestly deep-down turn the other cheek to uses of these words in ways that are meant to be inflammatory and derogatory or think it's not a big deal because "people say it on the internet all the time" and you don't see how it's a problem that someone who represents the SC2 community is saying these things, please never talk to me until you can broaden your perspective and educate yourself.

You can go ahead and attack my high horse but at least it's a progressive, tolerant one. In the meantime, lets never hang out



This post is itself racist. Funny how the people who go crazy against racism are typically racist themselves.


Not sure if serious? I'll take the troll bait, please enlighten me, how is this racist?
Painting a broad brush of the community as "white and privileged" because of the posts in this topic.

But racism against white people doesn't count, amirite?
pirates
Profile Joined October 2010
United States701 Posts
March 09 2012 01:41 GMT
#1244
On March 09 2012 10:40 Onlinejaguar wrote:
He got a bit mad while laddering, who cares honestly? People need to grow up and not care about this shit.

100% agree sir
VanGarde
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden755 Posts
March 09 2012 01:41 GMT
#1245
On March 09 2012 10:38 Dental Floss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2012 10:35 VanGarde wrote:
On March 09 2012 10:29 Dental Floss wrote:
On March 09 2012 10:20 VanGarde wrote:
Really? I have one problem with this discussion and it is that racism is dragged into it.

The words means nothing it is bm and that is all that is relevant to discuss, if you want to discuss whether or not a caster should bad manner on stream and on ladder that is one thing. Surely everyone is aware that orb tends to bm.

But I find it terribly overzealous how people jump on certain words. People who are angry and bm use different words that can be taboo, powerful or generally disliked. It is the point of using words in that way. Someone using nigger to curse at someone does not mean that they are actually a racist, someone using the word faggot to bm someone is not necessarily anti gay any less than someone who uses cunt to curse thinks that vaginas are something to be avoided.

Sure, debate whether or not orb should bm but just get over the bullshit about different words because it does not mean anything, guess what, my brother and a close friend of mine are homosexual and I use faggot when I curse, even around them. It does not mean anything in a context like this.


If words mean nothing then your post means nothing.


The context of words means something. The fact that people can't see a difference between "That retard faggot cannon rushed me eleven times in a row" and "I hate how the fucking faggots can still get married in some states" is the problem.


Hmm, thats a really good point. I hadn't thought of that. Man, it'd be crazy if there was a context where black people have been oppressed, murdered, and enslaved for hundreds of years by brutal imperialists. You'd sure look like a heel calling people "dumb niggers" if that were the case.


The problem with this reasoning is again the complete lack of balance. This shit only happens when people use the words nigger and fag, and in there lies the bias. When IdrA calls someone a retard no one stands up and say that this is offensive to mentally challenged people. When someone calls someone a cunt or a pussy there is no one who starts a thread about how this disrespects all women.

The reason people don't do that is that even people who think that we should censor society to get rid of "bad" words that could offend people realize that if you push that line of reasoning to its limits you can barely use words at all because there is always someone who will be offended by something.

War does not determine who is right - only who is left.
Xann
Profile Joined March 2012
United States17 Posts
March 09 2012 01:41 GMT
#1246
i'm still waiting for orb's apology, the white man continues to spread their hatred and racism while black men such as myself are hurt despite the hundreds of years of brutality i've had to suffer. The white man should be ashamed
Castrophy
Profile Joined November 2010
United States232 Posts
March 09 2012 01:42 GMT
#1247
I think the big thing here is not that he said the word, but that he lied to EG managment about it. If I were them I would fire him.
Lixler
Profile Joined March 2010
United States265 Posts
March 09 2012 01:42 GMT
#1248
On March 09 2012 10:37 Leporello wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2012 06:16 pt wrote:
its just racist comments dawg... its only a big deal because other people make it a big deal.


Makes me glad, I think that kind of language we're discussing is deplorable, insulting, and offensive. Beyond that, this kind of "typical" BM just affirms to every decent, thinking adult that the video game community is a haven for childish people who think nothing you say or do matters unless someone "makes it a big deal", and as such will say whatever mean thing they can think of because inside that's just who they are.

While I don't like slander and bandwagoning, I'm really tired of the carte-blanche attitude some people take towards civility, just because it's on the internet. You write someone a hand-written letter calling them racist and homophobic slurs, it's practically a hate crime. You say it in public, and people might call you a pig for the rest of your life. But on the internet, "it's only a big deal because other people make it a big deal".

Yeah, people who agree with me are reasonable adults, whereas people who disagree with me are just dumb kids. Reasonable adults like to make horrible fallacies, so I know I'm one.
RampancyTW
Profile Joined August 2010
United States577 Posts
March 09 2012 01:42 GMT
#1249
On March 09 2012 10:41 Xann wrote:
i'm still waiting for orb's apology, the white man continues to spread their hatred and racism while black men such as myself are hurt despite the hundreds of years of brutality i've had to suffer. The white man should be ashamed
Fuck off, you racist sack of shit.

Or masterful troll. Whatever. Just fuck off.


User was temp banned for this post.
p4NDemik
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States13896 Posts
March 09 2012 01:42 GMT
#1250
Renaming this thread to something that better reflect the completely substantiated facts that we have right now. We know comments have been made that include racial slurs. There have been multiple instances in the past that have been documented and are for sure orb, while the party behind the initial remarks that sparked this controversy remains uncertain.

We have some evidence that would indicate that the original story of the first incident being a friend may be false, but it is not incontrovertible. It is a screenshot with similar hotkeys at one moment in time. I have yet to see entire replays compared, which could without a doubt prove that there has been an effort to lie and cover up the truth. Until this or some other evidence comes forward the proposed "cover up" is a matter of debate.
Moderator
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
March 09 2012 01:43 GMT
#1251
Lol, say this kind of stuff on TL and you're instantly perma banned. I don't know how any of this overlaps into reasonable behavior like some people are trying to make it out to be.
LaM
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States1321 Posts
March 09 2012 01:43 GMT
#1252
On March 09 2012 10:41 Xann wrote:
i'm still waiting for orb's apology, the white man continues to spread their hatred and racism while black men such as myself are hurt despite the hundreds of years of brutality i've had to suffer. The white man should be ashamed


One of the more understated and solid trolls of this thread.
Anything is Possible
corpuscle
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States1967 Posts
March 09 2012 01:43 GMT
#1253
On March 09 2012 10:37 dcemuser wrote:

Interesting; I didn't know I had to include my Starcraft 2 ladder experiences on my resume.


In some hypothetical situation where you're a relatively well-known person in the SC2 community for being bad mannered and saying racist shit, it actually would affect your chances of getting hired. If I google "Jake Sklarew" (that's orb), I get linked to his twitter, which then links to a bunch of people calling him out for being racist... I sure as hell wouldn't hire him.
From the void I am born into wave and particle
mrtomjones
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada4020 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-09 01:44:27
March 09 2012 01:44 GMT
#1254
On March 09 2012 10:41 RampancyTW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2012 10:38 jnsjr wrote:
On March 09 2012 10:19 Esk23 wrote:
On March 09 2012 10:15 Chessz wrote:
Honestly, I think the responses to this thread are revealing as to how much people actually care about race issues and racism still at large, and how white/privileged (or even male/heteronormative regarding "fag") our particular community is. Not saying that orb is a racist, just i understand that he's indoctrinated by the culture he comes from to think these things are okay or not a big deal, and half of the posters here suffer from the same ignorance.

If you honestly deep-down turn the other cheek to uses of these words in ways that are meant to be inflammatory and derogatory or think it's not a big deal because "people say it on the internet all the time" and you don't see how it's a problem that someone who represents the SC2 community is saying these things, please never talk to me until you can broaden your perspective and educate yourself.

You can go ahead and attack my high horse but at least it's a progressive, tolerant one. In the meantime, lets never hang out



This post is itself racist. Funny how the people who go crazy against racism are typically racist themselves.


Not sure if serious? I'll take the troll bait, please enlighten me, how is this racist?
Painting a broad brush of the community as "white and privileged" because of the posts in this topic.

But racism against white people doesn't count, amirite?

Yah I'd second this post here. All colours of people can be racist, and ideally none should.

Orb went way overboard in his rants regardless... I don't think any of the kids online have ever raged that badly at me Although that may be because I left the bleep thing on... lol
Synche
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1345 Posts
March 09 2012 01:44 GMT
#1255
This is a gaming community, you can't compare what happens in his personal stream and on ladder with that happens in a professional setting.
Dental Floss
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1015 Posts
March 09 2012 01:44 GMT
#1256
On March 09 2012 10:41 VanGarde wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2012 10:38 Dental Floss wrote:
On March 09 2012 10:35 VanGarde wrote:
On March 09 2012 10:29 Dental Floss wrote:
On March 09 2012 10:20 VanGarde wrote:
Really? I have one problem with this discussion and it is that racism is dragged into it.

The words means nothing it is bm and that is all that is relevant to discuss, if you want to discuss whether or not a caster should bad manner on stream and on ladder that is one thing. Surely everyone is aware that orb tends to bm.

But I find it terribly overzealous how people jump on certain words. People who are angry and bm use different words that can be taboo, powerful or generally disliked. It is the point of using words in that way. Someone using nigger to curse at someone does not mean that they are actually a racist, someone using the word faggot to bm someone is not necessarily anti gay any less than someone who uses cunt to curse thinks that vaginas are something to be avoided.

Sure, debate whether or not orb should bm but just get over the bullshit about different words because it does not mean anything, guess what, my brother and a close friend of mine are homosexual and I use faggot when I curse, even around them. It does not mean anything in a context like this.


If words mean nothing then your post means nothing.


The context of words means something. The fact that people can't see a difference between "That retard faggot cannon rushed me eleven times in a row" and "I hate how the fucking faggots can still get married in some states" is the problem.


Hmm, thats a really good point. I hadn't thought of that. Man, it'd be crazy if there was a context where black people have been oppressed, murdered, and enslaved for hundreds of years by brutal imperialists. You'd sure look like a heel calling people "dumb niggers" if that were the case.


The problem with this reasoning is again the complete lack of balance. This shit only happens when people use the words nigger and fag, and in there lies the bias. When IdrA calls someone a retard no one stands up and say that this is offensive to mentally challenged people. When someone calls someone a cunt or a pussy there is no one who starts a thread about how this disrespects all women.

The reason people don't do that is that even people who think that we should censor society to get rid of "bad" words that could offend people realize that if you push that line of reasoning to its limits you can barely use words at all because there is always someone who will be offended by something.



You're right; there are degrees of social acceptance for all words and ideas. One way to measure how socially acceptable something sounds is to ask other people. Here in this thread we've discussed how socially acceptable Orb's comments were. After reading this thread do you feel that Orb's comments were socially acceptable? Does it look like this social group in general approves or disapproves?
Kim Tae Gyun.... never forget Perfectman RIP
Dental Floss
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1015 Posts
March 09 2012 01:45 GMT
#1257
On March 09 2012 10:44 SimDawg wrote:
This is a gaming community, you can't compare what happens in his personal stream and on ladder with that happens in a professional setting.


Riddle: When is a game not a game?

Answer: When its your job.
Kim Tae Gyun.... never forget Perfectman RIP
Gryffes
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United Kingdom763 Posts
March 09 2012 01:45 GMT
#1258
On March 09 2012 10:35 TheBlueMeaner wrote:
And its really funny how everyone keeps bringing Idra out, he is bad mannered at times, but I have never heard of him using racial slurs to insult his opponents...



I've never seen idra use a racial slur, but he's definitely used a lot of homophobic slurs.
www.youtube.com/gryffes - Random Gaming Videos.
Joedaddy
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1948 Posts
March 09 2012 01:45 GMT
#1259
On March 09 2012 10:44 SimDawg wrote:
This is a gaming community, you can't compare what happens in his personal stream and on ladder with that happens in a professional setting.


Good luck selling that to corporate America when you want a major sponsorship.
I might be the minority on TL, but TL is the minority everywhere else.
zodde
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden1908 Posts
March 09 2012 01:47 GMT
#1260
Yeah because people saying nigger on stream is SO OFFENSIVE, get over it lol. It doesn't matter to anyone.
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