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The subject of this thread is not a license to roll out your inaccurate, misinformed, poorly conceived, tired, and downright offensive theories about race relations. |
On March 09 2012 10:41 VanGarde wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 10:38 Dental Floss wrote:On March 09 2012 10:35 VanGarde wrote:On March 09 2012 10:29 Dental Floss wrote:On March 09 2012 10:20 VanGarde wrote:
Really? I have one problem with this discussion and it is that racism is dragged into it.
The words means nothing it is bm and that is all that is relevant to discuss, if you want to discuss whether or not a caster should bad manner on stream and on ladder that is one thing. Surely everyone is aware that orb tends to bm.
But I find it terribly overzealous how people jump on certain words. People who are angry and bm use different words that can be taboo, powerful or generally disliked. It is the point of using words in that way. Someone using nigger to curse at someone does not mean that they are actually a racist, someone using the word faggot to bm someone is not necessarily anti gay any less than someone who uses cunt to curse thinks that vaginas are something to be avoided.
Sure, debate whether or not orb should bm but just get over the bullshit about different words because it does not mean anything, guess what, my brother and a close friend of mine are homosexual and I use faggot when I curse, even around them. It does not mean anything in a context like this. If words mean nothing then your post means nothing. The context of words means something. The fact that people can't see a difference between "That retard faggot cannon rushed me eleven times in a row" and "I hate how the fucking faggots can still get married in some states" is the problem. Hmm, thats a really good point. I hadn't thought of that. Man, it'd be crazy if there was a context where black people have been oppressed, murdered, and enslaved for hundreds of years by brutal imperialists. You'd sure look like a heel calling people "dumb niggers" if that were the case. The problem with this reasoning is again the complete lack of balance. This shit only happens when people use the words nigger and fag, and in there lies the bias. When IdrA calls someone a retard no one stands up and say that this is offensive to mentally challenged people. When someone calls someone a cunt or a pussy there is no one who starts a thread about how this disrespects all women. The reason people don't do that is that even people who think that we should censor society to get rid of "bad" words that could offend people realize that if you push that line of reasoning to its limits you can barely use words at all because there is always someone who will be offended by something.
Ahh, whining about "balance".
"Retarded" hasn't quite reached the level of offensiveness as "nigger" and "faggot", but "cunt" is certainly close.
Your argument about balance doesn't have anything to do with how offensive the words are. Words are created to be unequal in power due to cultural perceptions, that's just how it is.
Orb is a public figure, and when he streams that is part of his public persona. He has an obligation at least to his own reputation (and to his viewers, if he values them at all) to not be offensive. To call people "nigger" and "faggot" shows an extreme lack of self control because not only is the use of these words is widely considered immature especially in the United States, but also because Orb is openly using these words in a situation that would harm his public reputation with complete disregard to the consequences.
What did he think was going to happen? What happened here is completely to be expected. Orb said a bunch of obviously offensive things publicly that he shouldn't have and he's getting shit for it.
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Don't give a damn about his choice of words, a bit more annoyed by him trying to get away with it and lying like some guilty 4th grader. At least when people like Destiny call people a nigger they stand up for it right afterwards and say, "hell yeah i said that."
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This is simply disgusting. People rage all the time, and for people like me who are on the internet since 1997's this is absolutely nothing compared to what people can say. People are just beating on a dead horse, and it's very sad.
No i'm not homophobic, I don't hate black people, I have black friends myself and I call them niggers all the time, I don't see what's wrong with it, as long as you don't mean it as "I hate you cause you're black and you should die".
I'm ashamed of the community
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People just need to own up to mistakes, too many times these same situations pop up where someone has a chance to apologize early on and drastically reduce the attention they would otherwise receive but decide to lie about it until the evidence against them is indisputable and then they decide to issue an apology.
Is raging on ladder bad? No, a lot of people do it but to me it's the use of words like the n-word and the fa-word as well as aggressively lying about it not being you until you are proved to be at fault then issue a statement. To me, it makes your statement of apology mean practically nothing after you call out certain people for pointing out what was, in the end, true. Lots of respect loss for Orb not only by the language he uses but also the horrible PR mess he turned this into for not taking responsibility for his actions until he could no longer disprove it wasn't him.
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hes a little shit for denying it but settle down, people say stupid shit all the time on sc2
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On March 09 2012 10:47 zodde wrote:
Yeah because people saying nigger on stream is SO OFFENSIVE, get over it lol. It doesn't matter to anyone.
It seems like Swedish people have said a lot of ignorant things in this thread. or they are fantastic trolls?? I guess I thought Sweden was a little more progressive than this..
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On March 09 2012 10:49 Rorschach wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 10:41 Xann wrote:
i'm still waiting for orb's apology, the white man continues to spread their hatred and racism while black men such as myself are hurt despite the hundreds of years of brutality i've had to suffer. The white man should be ashamed how old are you? hundreds of years of brutality? And this persecution happened to you personally? What day and age are you living in?
lol?
Sorry but I won't let the white man sweep racism under the rug... actions have consequences, and orb should pay the consequences of his inflamatory remarks on my race.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On March 09 2012 10:47 zodde wrote:
Yeah because people saying nigger on stream is SO OFFENSIVE, get over it lol. It doesn't matter to anyone.
Theres an entire country (USA) that might disagree with that statement. And that's a pretty big market to want to be selling to as an ESport sponsor.
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United States461 Posts
On March 09 2012 10:51 eits wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 10:41 Xann wrote:
i'm still waiting for orb's apology, the white man continues to spread their hatred and racism while black men such as myself are hurt despite the hundreds of years of brutality i've had to suffer. The white man should be ashamed get off of high horse please what have you actually endured? the daily, ritualistic, physical beatings your ancestors used to get? give me a break. My family is norwegian, I don't go around cry about what the "vikings" did to my ancestors and that it deeply affects me to this day. quit blaming everything "on the white man" and do something else about it besides blaming someone else
you got trolled...... nice to know how you really feel though!
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Peope in this thread for real think racism doesn't exist in America. I found that study
http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873
Black names 50% less likely to get calls back on job applications than white names. Study straight from Harvard.
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On March 09 2012 10:42 RampancyTW wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 10:41 Xann wrote:
i'm still waiting for orb's apology, the white man continues to spread their hatred and racism while black men such as myself are hurt despite the hundreds of years of brutality i've had to suffer. The white man should be ashamed Fuck off, you racist sack of shit. Or masterful troll. Whatever. Just fuck off. User was temp banned for this post.
Responding to the original post, not the follow up. But come on man, that is just ridiculous. You simply lumped every white person (such as myself) into the racist pile (Which is just as racist as orbs comments by the way) I have black friends, black family members, brown friends, yellow friends, white friends, all colors of friends. So no, as a white person I don't feel ashamed. As a human being, I'm sad this shit is still around. To hate someone purely based on skin color is fucking ridiculous. And by saying all white people should be ashamed I think deserves just as much of a ban as the un needed follow up.
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On March 09 2012 10:53 IamMrWren wrote:
Context, he was calling this these people on ladder assholes using the word nigger. Shit talking is part of the video game culture. Yes, he may have lied about it, only because he was afraid of losing his dream job. People have made this into much more than what it should be.
It takes less time to type gg than it does to type something you may regret.
So lack of integrity is excusable in certain situations? If EG can't trust him to tell the truth then he's not worth keeping.
He lied, he needs to deal with the consequences. I can understand why he tried to lie, it doesn't excuse his behaviour.
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On March 09 2012 10:42 p4NDemik wrote:
Renaming this thread to something that better reflect the completely substantiated facts that we have right now. We know comments have been made that include racial slurs. There have been multiple instances in the past that have been documented and are for sure orb, while the party behind the initial remarks that sparked this controversy remains uncertain.
We have some evidence that would indicate that the original story of the first incident being a friend may be false, but it is not incontrovertible. It is a screenshot with similar hotkeys at one moment in time. I have yet to see entire replays compared, which could without a doubt prove that there has been an effort to lie and cover up the truth. Until this or some other evidence comes forward the proposed "cover up" is a matter of debate.
you've completely reframed the context of the thread, even if you do consider it a matter of debate.
a debate i would gladly have with you.
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On March 09 2012 10:48 Xcobidoo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 10:41 VanGarde wrote:On March 09 2012 10:38 Dental Floss wrote:On March 09 2012 10:35 VanGarde wrote:On March 09 2012 10:29 Dental Floss wrote:On March 09 2012 10:20 VanGarde wrote:
Really? I have one problem with this discussion and it is that racism is dragged into it.
The words means nothing it is bm and that is all that is relevant to discuss, if you want to discuss whether or not a caster should bad manner on stream and on ladder that is one thing. Surely everyone is aware that orb tends to bm.
But I find it terribly overzealous how people jump on certain words. People who are angry and bm use different words that can be taboo, powerful or generally disliked. It is the point of using words in that way. Someone using nigger to curse at someone does not mean that they are actually a racist, someone using the word faggot to bm someone is not necessarily anti gay any less than someone who uses cunt to curse thinks that vaginas are something to be avoided.
Sure, debate whether or not orb should bm but just get over the bullshit about different words because it does not mean anything, guess what, my brother and a close friend of mine are homosexual and I use faggot when I curse, even around them. It does not mean anything in a context like this. If words mean nothing then your post means nothing. The context of words means something. The fact that people can't see a difference between "That retard faggot cannon rushed me eleven times in a row" and "I hate how the fucking faggots can still get married in some states" is the problem. Hmm, thats a really good point. I hadn't thought of that. Man, it'd be crazy if there was a context where black people have been oppressed, murdered, and enslaved for hundreds of years by brutal imperialists. You'd sure look like a heel calling people "dumb niggers" if that were the case. The problem with this reasoning is again the complete lack of balance. This shit only happens when people use the words nigger and fag, and in there lies the bias. When IdrA calls someone a retard no one stands up and say that this is offensive to mentally challenged people. When someone calls someone a cunt or a pussy there is no one who starts a thread about how this disrespects all women. The reason people don't do that is that even people who think that we should censor society to get rid of "bad" words that could offend people realize that if you push that line of reasoning to its limits you can barely use words at all because there is always someone who will be offended by something. If we're really going to rank insulting words here then there's a huge difference between the N-word, F-word and retard. In the recent centuries mentally challenged people were not enslaved and seen as animals whose only purpose was to serve another race. Regarding the F-word, homosexuals still don't have any rights whatsoever in many parts of the world while a lot of effort is being put into making the world a better place for disabled people wether it be mentally or physically. In that context (the world we live in) my friend, those words are unacceptable and should not be uttered. When, where and if the people hearing care is a totally different thing altogether.
See it is when you start to try and rationalize which words are okay and not with social circumstance and even historical circumstance that it becomes evident how futile it is to do this. One could easily argue that women are one of the most oppressed groups in the world today, in large parts of the world women have little or no rights at all. Should not bitch or cunt be ranked higher on the list then? No because this list is arbitrary and a just a haphazard result of social interaction. But you are not going to reach me arguing over why certain words should "not be uttered" because I would have to ascribe to the belief that we should monitor and control language based on offensiveness. I don't believe that it matters in the slightest if a group has been oppressed historically. Saying nigger is inconsequential to this. If someone on the other hand goes out and argues that black people should be enslaved again, yeah then there you have something to be offended about. I actually find it dangerous that people can't draw distinctions between these two.
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On March 09 2012 10:53 IamMrWren wrote:
he was calling these people on ladder assholes using the word nigger.
Wow, and you actually don't think there is something wrong with that? Trying to insult someone as much as possible with the N-word... gotta be kidding me.
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On March 09 2012 09:55 liberal wrote:
Mr. Showtime, I just read your signature.......
Is it true that Incontrol said that Koreans say "Rive and Rearn"???? RACISM!!!
HOW CAN HE BE THE FACE OF ESPORTS GUYS WE HAVE TO GET RID OF THIS GUY FOR THE FUTURE OF SC2 YOU CANT MAKE FUN OF HOW NON-ENGLISH SPEAKERS SPEAK ENGLISH!!!!
Context goes a long way. Please tell me that you aren't THAT ignorant and naive. Caps don't make your point better, they make you look like an idiot. Cut that shit out. You should probably read exactly what I said before you start bitching. That also makes you look like an idiot.
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who the fuck cares, i didnt even know who this orb person was till this stupid thread..
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On March 09 2012 10:55 pepsimaxibon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 10:42 p4NDemik wrote:
Renaming this thread to something that better reflect the completely substantiated facts that we have right now. We know comments have been made that include racial slurs. There have been multiple instances in the past that have been documented and are for sure orb, while the party behind the initial remarks that sparked this controversy remains uncertain.
We have some evidence that would indicate that the original story of the first incident being a friend may be false, but it is not incontrovertible. It is a screenshot with similar hotkeys at one moment in time. I have yet to see entire replays compared, which could without a doubt prove that there has been an effort to lie and cover up the truth. Until this or some other evidence comes forward the proposed "cover up" is a matter of debate. you've completely reframed the context of the thread, even if you do consider it a matter of debate.
Good, that means there have been more actual exchange of opinions and less hate rant for at least a few pages.
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On March 09 2012 10:51 Dental Floss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 10:49 Rorschach wrote:On March 09 2012 10:41 Xann wrote:
i'm still waiting for orb's apology, the white man continues to spread their hatred and racism while black men such as myself are hurt despite the hundreds of years of brutality i've had to suffer. The white man should be ashamed how old are you? hundreds of years of brutality? And this persecution happened to you personally? What day and age are you living in? GTFO Lets get real here for a moment: If you submit two job applications with the same credentials but one says "Brad" and one says "Curtis" guess who is 30% more likely to get the job. There have been real studies about this I am serious.
I don't think that's what he's talking about. You're right. So is Rorschach.
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This thread is hilarious. I don't understand why so many people rush to defend orb's racist, immature, unsportsmanlike and poorly typed raging and on top of that defend the fact that he tried to deny it in the face of overwhelming evidence. Incidents like this should disgrace any public figure forever.
I mean, just imagine if MC or MVP or some other progamer said stuff like "ur fucking garbage dumb nigger" to their opponents while streaming.
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EPT
