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Hm, cool monitor. The U2711H seems a better value for money perhaps, better stand and more inputs, but still, cool.
The problem with 10-bit panels is that it's very likely that they're using a type of dithering to achieve it (Frame Rate Control or FRC) - which can cause some artifacts - and that your graphics card, OS, and application have to support it. But it's a nice monitor nonetheless.
I'm not going to get into the price thing too much - it's a mess to compare and it doesn't really help anyone (and leads to flames). I'll say that you're probably paying a hundred or two hundred pounds/euros/dollars for getting an all-in-one, but that's not Apple, that's physical form-factor. Is that fair?
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On February 04 2012 02:10 Catch]22 wrote:
Similar hardware = similar performance. .
This is true, but Apple think it's funny to charge more for the similar hardware.
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What the hell did I just read? I'm so confused. Comparing the price of an alienware to a mac? Makes sense I guess if you own a mac.
Look, the argument here is really simple. You can get the exact same components of a mac in a PC for LESS MONEY. You find me any mac out there and I can find essentially the same exact PC for cheaper.
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It's all about getting bang for your buck; if you overpay for a product you're not getting the best value.
I've owned plenty of Apple products before and I must say their customer support is excellent. That's it. If you don't have the slightest clue of how to manage the device, then fine. Put that money towards their support and the fact they will replace the product with the newest model with very few questions ask (they have the money to do so).
Anyway, it's the same shit with those other companies like Alienware and other outlets like Digital Storm. Their price tag markups are ridiculous. If you know how to build a computer or know someone who does then your best bet is doing it yourself or getting them to do it for you.
On February 04 2012 02:52 Mr Showtime wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2012 02:10 Catch]22 wrote:
Similar hardware = similar performance. . This is true, but Apple think it's funny to charge more for the similar hardware.
Comes down to branding man and most people don't know any better. ;/
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The arguments against Macs were never that the performance was lacking..it was how overpriced their hardware is and always has been. Tradeoff being more stability (heard some horror stories though) and the minimize/maximize/exit buttons being on the opposite side of a window.
Also Skyrim isn't exactly a graphics benchmark either..
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On February 04 2012 02:14 exnomendei wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2012 02:11 TrickyGilligan wrote:On February 04 2012 02:04 exnomendei wrote:
Or I could build by own. Did that. Last time I had a Q6600, 8800GT (later HD4870), an SSD at the same time as the HD4870, etc. I can build my own. I didn't, and I chose not to. You see, I could have gotten more performance, but I'd have to build it, I'd have to find and install the drivers for, well, everything, I'd have to get an add-on board since I need Firewire, I'd have to settle for a plastic case that's either too hot or too loud and so on.
I'm not really sure how your inability to build a computer helps you in this discussion at all. If anything, it's just going to further people's belief that Macs aren't for people who know anything about computers. I just built my own, I paid significantly less than the 850, and it's equal or better than your current machine in ever regard. Also, comparing to Alienware is a strawman. Alienware is the Apple of the PC world, you're paying a lot for the Alienware name and the shiny alien lights you get on your computer. Read it again. I can build my own. I did. I chose not to because I was annoyed by the issues of it, at least this time. Tell me, what are the specifications of your computer? I'd prefer to also get the cost of each component. (I've no doubt the CPU and memory are faster, by the way, it's a 2007 computer. My notebook's memory is faster (although it has 4 GB of it).) I'm also willing to bet I know more about computers than 90% of TL. Show nested quote +On February 04 2012 02:13 Glowbox wrote:
Comparing with Alienware is not really fair now is it (if you look at prices)? I think the point for many people is, if they build a pc and assemble it themselves they can get at least equal performance as that of a mac for less money.
Either way it's a troll picture. What is it exactly that you want to discuss? Mac vs Pc prices? Not sure what you mean by looking at prices, but that's not your point. Yes, people can build a faster computer for less money themselves. If you build your own car from components, it costs less money than an equivalent one as well. There's also the time factor involved. (and in the car's example, skill too, but that's moot with computers.) The thing is, this should surprise no-one: Labor costs money. Testing configurations costs money. Warranties cost money. Of course you can higher performance-per-dollar from a self-built computer than from a Mac! I'm not going to say you can't. Figures like thrice-the-price are bullshit, though. I'd explain it, but I tried and it was a bad, ugly rant. I did that before and it was a lot of back-and-forth about processors clocking lower at idle and I don't want to get into that. Anyway, point is: Yes, Macs are more expensive than building yourself, but there's nothing wrong with that.
You said in your first post that you bought the mac for 850 or w/e and then added parts to it which obviously increases the price of the computer. While I am not going to attack you saying that you know more about computers than 90% of tl which is a competitive pc gaming site is kind of silly especially since you felt the need to delineate the fact that 2 qual cores make 4 cores (which is unneeded information and not even completely true).
A rough break down of a computer that would suit any gamers need is
100- sweet looking case (I bought mine for 79)
150- up to date processor but not brand new
200- this would be a great price for a motherboard
150- video card; You could run any game and do a lot of video editing with a video card in this range
75- HD
95- Windows
25- dvd drive
75- 750w+ power supply
40- heatsink
--------------------------
910- This is the most I would probably pay for a computer with an average salary/job and while it may be 60 more than you posted, you forgot to include all the stuff (like that vid card) that you added to it. also, if I was to hit exactly what you built I would spend significantly less, especially because most apple motherboards are behind in power, their cpus are behind (especially for what you pay for them!!!!!!!) and their video cards are crap most of the time as well. Taking that with the horrible software that is osx and you have a product that 85%+ of population don't want.
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On February 04 2012 02:52 Mr Showtime wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2012 02:10 Catch]22 wrote:
Similar hardware = similar performance. . This is true, but Apple think it's funny to charge more for the similar hardware.
Apple is priced competitively fyi, anyone that has a clue about computers would know this.
MBPs is in line with pricing of Dell Latitudes, Lenevo Thinkpads, and HP Elitebooks. I'm sorry if you think consumer notebooks equate to a business grade notebook.
An 27" IPS and ITX tower is going to end up costing about the same or even more than an iMac since the screen itself is close to $1000.
OP doesn't know what he's talking about but neither do you or the majority posting in this thread.
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On February 04 2012 02:48 NonFactor wrote:
Can you explain what issues you had with building the PC yourself? When I wanted a new PC, my little brother, 16 at the time, told me he could build me one NP. I ordered all the parts needed, took them to his room, went out and when I came back there was a fully built PC waiting for me. Never had a problem with it either. Saved a lot of money too.
I once spent two weeks helping a friend figure out what his PC's problem was. There's not really anywhere to go when ordering parts online from various distributors. We ran things to put the thing under load, it crashed, and we could say: Well, it's the motherboard, the graphics card, or the PSU. I've no idea how he ever figured out what it actually was. And I've built a few more PC's that work beautifully.
Yes, you save money. You spend time, you get no warranty on building it, etc. Time equals money, so in the end, you're trading one for the other. That's why I don't compare a Mac to a self-built PC.
On February 04 2012 02:49 clusen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2012 02:04 exnomendei wrote:
I'd have to settle for a plastic case that's either too hot or too loud and so on This is just wrong.
I'm kind of picky with regards to noise... (www.silentpcreview.net) so your mileage will indubitably vary on this. I modified the before-mentioned 8800GT with a custom heatsink and strapped a low-RPM fan to it to quiet it down, per example, to manage the issue.
But you're right, I'm wrong. Cases like the Silverstone Fortress FT2 are really good, and I was overstating it. (Also, that case is damn gorgeous.)
What the hell did I just read? I'm so confused. Comparing the price of an alienware to a mac? Makes sense I guess if you own a mac.
Look, the argument here is really simple. You can get the exact same components of a mac in a PC for LESS MONEY. You find me any mac out there and I can find essentially the same exact PC for cheaper.
What's your hourly rate? 'cause if it's free, I'd love to work with you. Can you produce a couple of hundred a day? Maybe a few thousand?
I'm not claiming that you'll get the same performance per dollar on a Mac as you do on a PC, even a pre-built one. But you're not being ripped off - the component costs are high because Apple uses expensive components more than that they simply charge more for the same ones. Using a Z86 motherboard isn't giving you that much more performance but it has other advantages, using a processor that downclocks more at idle but is more expensive isn't giving you more performance per dollar either. It's not that I say Macs are equal performarce per dollar (to self-built PC's at least) - I'm saying they're not overpriced.
By the way, yes, Alienware is apparently a rip-off. I stand corrected. It's been mentioned a few times before...
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This thread is created upon the basis of arrogance. The more OP says "I'm toning things down...", the more sure are we that you're just trying to brag even though there's nothing to brag about. You can't even layout your ideas coherently; provide horrible arguments with even worst support. You say that you're not patronizing and trying to have a real discussion - there's a large difference in "saying" and "doing".
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This should be closed imo. People can't seem to stop hating Apple, quite obvious from the responses.
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On February 04 2012 03:01 ixi.genocide wrote:
You said in your first post that you bought the mac for 850 or w/e and then added parts to it which obviously increases the price of the computer. While I am not going to attack you saying that you know more about computers than 90% of tl which is a competitive pc gaming site is kind of silly especially since you felt the need to delineate the fact that 2 qual cores make 4 cores (which is unneeded information and not even completely true).
Competitive PC gamers aren't always the same people as people who understand the deeper parts of computers. Also, that was a bit of an ugly comment by me - whether it's true or not.
I mention that two dual-cores make for four cores total. Which is true. It's not a quad-core (although it'll have two quad-cores soon), but disregarding L1 and L2 cache it's effectively a four-core, and if anything, it's faster than a single quad-core chip because of the cache and since the Northbridge isn't strained for bandwidth as easily.
I'm not going to get into the rest of the post... It's arguing semantics too often and it's not exactly easy to compare a 2007 server to a 2012 gaming computer. 850 does include the graphics card btw, but not the SSD and HDD's that I put in there, nor my Bluetooth chip. edit: To clarify, I mean that looking at prices and all that is arguing semantics too often. Not your post.
On February 04 2012 03:08 HereBeDragons wrote:
This thread is created upon the basis of arrogance. The more OP says "I'm toning things down...", the more sure are we that you're just trying to brag even though there's nothing to brag about. You can't even layout your ideas coherently; provide horrible arguments with even worst support. You say that you're not patronizing and trying to have a real discussion - there's a large difference in "saying" and "doing".
I'm not quite following you. Can you give some examples of after I mentioned I was indeed somewhat, for lack of a better word, arrogant, where I continued to do so or even made things worse? I'm trying to stop that, but I'm a bit worked up (due to unrelated things) and it might show through still.
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Ha ha nice tread
Love the pic in the op, did not see it before, i do feel its an accurate analogy
Annyway i completely agree so i wont let go of this opportunity to bash apple
Apple seems to be love or hate and i have hated them since their first macintosh pc.
Around 2000 they seem to completely have gone into the obscurity they deserve with the stock price at ~4$ but then they suddenly make a comback with a mobile phone and music player and are now the most valuable company on the planet >.<
Imo apple is all about promotion,not about the qualitys of the product itself.
I dont even find them user friendly and intuitive! wich is supposed to be their strong point but i guess this is just personal.
Custom build pc is the best value for monney you can get, i cant see how people can argue over that
There is no 40b$ of profit wich has to be paid .
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On February 04 2012 03:17 Rassy wrote:Ha ha nice tread Love the pic in the op, did not see it before, i do feel its an accurate analogy Annyway i completely agree so i wont let go of this opportunity to bash apple Apple seems to be love or hate and i have hated them since their first macintosh pc. Around 2000 they seem to completely have gone into the obscurity they deserve with the stock price at ~4$ but then they suddenly make a comback with a mobile phone and music player and are now the most valuable company on the planet >.< Imo apple is all about promotion,not about the qualitys of the product itself. I dont even find them user friendly and intuitive! wich is supposed to be their strong point but i guess this is just personal. Custom build pc is the best value for monney you can get, i cant see how people can argue over that There is no 40b$ of profit wich has to be paid .
I agree, custom built computers are the best value for money. Not so much time, or effort, or warranty though.
You're not really bashing Apple. You don't really have any arguments. You just stated your opinion. Which is fine, but also not bashing (and rather useless to go and respond directly to.)
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5003 Posts
i bet this is how progamers feel whenever some diamond/master league player whines about balance
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Every retail component purchased has warranty ranging from a year to lifetime... just because you're too lazy to troubleshoot, it doesn't mean there's no warranty.
OP is talking about a server configuration (which most people can't seem to grasp). The majority of everyone here only cares about gaming performance that can be had from a consumer configuration. So this discussion is pretty stupid.
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On February 04 2012 03:24 skyR wrote:
Every retail component purchased has warranty ranging from a year to lifetime... just because you're too lazy to troubleshoot, it doesn't mean there's no warranty.
OP is talking about a server configuration (which most people can't seem to grasp). The majority of everyone here only cares about gaming performance that can be had from a consumer configuration.
They can't grasp it because the OP is trying to compare his server configuration to a gaming PC.
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On February 04 2012 02:04 exnomendei wrote:
Please note that I'm not trying to flame anyone. I hope you can do the same.
Nothing wrong with Mac if you want to pay more for less, or a shitload more for the same.
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On February 04 2012 03:28 TrickyGilligan wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2012 03:24 skyR wrote:
Every retail component purchased has warranty ranging from a year to lifetime... just because you're too lazy to troubleshoot, it doesn't mean there's no warranty.
OP is talking about a server configuration (which most people can't seem to grasp). The majority of everyone here only cares about gaming performance that can be had from a consumer configuration. They can't grasp it because the OP is trying to compare his server configuration to a gaming PC.
I realize this since it took me a few minutes to grasp that he has a 2006 Mac Pro. It was pretty stupid to start such a thread anways since you already know the majority of people are ignorant and only think of Apple as an overpriced brand even though all their products are priced competitively.
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You're really obnoxious... perhaps if you weren't such an asshole all the time people would be nicer about your subpar computer. Mac is not better, try listening to the overall majority instead of trying to proved they're wrong with random gifs and pictures. Mac has no customisation, is more expensive for the same product, runs less software, is generally slower, you're just paying more for the logo. Like designer clothes.
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On February 04 2012 03:15 exnomendei wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2012 03:08 HereBeDragons wrote:
This thread is created upon the basis of arrogance. The more OP says "I'm toning things down...", the more sure are we that you're just trying to brag even though there's nothing to brag about. You can't even layout your ideas coherently; provide horrible arguments with even worst support. You say that you're not patronizing and trying to have a real discussion - there's a large difference in "saying" and "doing". I'm not quite following you. Can you give some examples of after I mentioned I was indeed somewhat, for lack of a better word, arrogant, where I continued to do so or even made things worse? I'm trying to stop that, but I'm a bit worked up (due to unrelated things) and it might show through still.
You need examples? Re-read every post that you made carefully, it's all over the page. You can also read angry responses from people in the thread quoting specific parts of your OP, such as
On February 04 2012 02:16 bonifaceviii wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2012 02:14 exnomendei wrote:
I'm also willing to bet I know more about computers than 90% of TL. Somehow I'm thinking that the OP wasn't serious when he said this thread isn't a flame fest...
or this
On February 04 2012 02:42 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2012 02:04 exnomendei wrote:9 GB's of FB-DDR ( You probably don't know what that is  ) Are you shitting me lol?
and so-on.
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EPT
