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On January 31 2012 11:47 LuckyFool wrote:
Is this thread really necessary?
I think it was pretty clearly defined in the other thread the two forfeits are completely unrelated, also Tylers withdraw had an immensely less impact on the event than Stephanos. What is there even to talk about here?
PROFESSIONALISM. LEGITIMACY. STANDARDS. ESPORTS.
Very "important" things to talk about.
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This thread shouldn't even exist. Tyler forfeiting the first round of this tournament isn't notable; the only reason we're even discussing it is because Hot_Bid made a post about Stephano and some moron tried to call him out about not talking about TL members forfeiting things. The reaction is totally disproportional to the offense.
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On January 31 2012 11:47 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:45 kochujang wrote:On January 31 2012 11:43 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 11:41 kochujang wrote:On January 31 2012 11:35 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 11:31 kochujang wrote:On January 31 2012 10:56 memcpy wrote:On January 31 2012 10:49 nGBeast wrote:On January 31 2012 10:48 NoCatsCradle wrote:
Pretty unprofessional behavior by Tyler.
I wonder if this incident will prevent tournament organizers from inviting him in the future. Give me a fucking break, all you people who were bitching in the other thread about Tyler FF is not the same as Stephano FF a finals match. Community starting unneeded drama as always. At what point exactly does it become ok to forfeit? Group play, ro16, ro8, ro4, finals? It is never ok to forfeit. Just like it is not ok to miss a doctors appointment or exams. The consequences may vary depending on the level of importance. Of course I can stop writing in the middle of an exam and walk out of the door. And I will get exactly the appropriate points for the correct solutions I have filled in up to that point. And I won't be deducted any points for walking out 1 answer short. Um... you know, your analogy can be interpreted in many different ways, like Idra would gg/walk out prematurely. I think you have misunderstood what I was trying to tell. Miss exams-> flunk, miss doctors appointment->make a new one. Yes, and Stephano didn't miss the tournament. He showed up and reached the finals. He then walked out of the door. Same as showing up to the exam and leaving early. Lol, I give up. You never really argued against it, but fair enough. You completely disregard the fact he participated in 99% of the tournament, and draw parallels to "not even showing up".
I wanted to give an example of importance, not action. The analogy was unfortunate, because I drew unintended parallels. I never stated if an action is ok or not, but the consequences are bigger/smaller on the level of importance. What I wanted to say, is if the level of importance is relevant to forfeiting. E.g. in FXO KOTH some players forfeit, and new players are replaced (or not) on the fly without any repercussion or break of the flow. Tyler did it in a group stage in a tournament, Stephano in the finals. What about qualifiers? We see forfeits there also. Is it important enough? Does it depend on the viewers?
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On January 31 2012 11:49 The Void wrote:
This thread IS necessary!
If the other one is. (and it is)
Why? The two things are so insanely different in magnitude I think it's absurd to try to even compare them.
Its like comparing a minor scratch on a windshield to car getting totaled.
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On January 31 2012 11:35 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:31 kochujang wrote:On January 31 2012 10:56 memcpy wrote:On January 31 2012 10:49 nGBeast wrote:On January 31 2012 10:48 NoCatsCradle wrote:
Pretty unprofessional behavior by Tyler.
I wonder if this incident will prevent tournament organizers from inviting him in the future. Give me a fucking break, all you people who were bitching in the other thread about Tyler FF is not the same as Stephano FF a finals match. Community starting unneeded drama as always. At what point exactly does it become ok to forfeit? Group play, ro16, ro8, ro4, finals? It is never ok to forfeit. Just like it is not ok to miss a doctors appointment or exams. The consequences may vary depending on the level of importance. Of course I can stop writing in the middle of an exam and walk out of the door. And I will get exactly the appropriate points for the correct solutions I have filled in up to that point. And I won't be deducted any points for walking out 1 answer short.
Your example is irrelevant and totally out of context. Letting yourself down is totally different to letting others down (tournament organisers who invited you, your team, teammates, sponsors, fans).
Here's my stupid irrelevant out-of-context example. In the middle of the day do I just get up and say "kk, I'm done with work now, going home 6 hours early, lol"? I could do that, but I'd probably be fired, ergo there'll be consequences
As for the actual subject matter (Tyler and Stephano FF'ing) I have no opinion.
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On January 31 2012 11:54 tsuxiit wrote:
This thread shouldn't even exist. Tyler forfeiting the first round of this tournament isn't notable; the only reason we're even discussing it is because Hot_Bid made a post about Stephano and some moron tried to call him out about not talking about TL members forfeiting things. The reaction is totally disproportional to the offense.
the only people being disproportionate are the army of white knights coming to to tylers defence. the OP asked a question in a reasonable and manner way, and tyler replied. its only tylers defenders who are getting stressed out about this.
On January 31 2012 11:54 LuckyFool wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:49 The Void wrote:
This thread IS necessary!
If the other one is. (and it is) Why? The two things are so insanely different in magnitude I think it's absurd to try to even compare them. Its like comparing a minor scratch on a windshield to car getting totaled.
minor scratches on windshields dramatically reduce their strength and are a major safety hazard, turned out your metaphor was pretty good after all
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On January 31 2012 11:54 NoCatsCradle wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:50 dAPhREAk wrote:On January 31 2012 11:46 NoCatsCradle wrote:On January 31 2012 11:44 dAPhREAk wrote:On January 31 2012 11:37 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Medical reasons unrelated to depression. Apologies to ONOG for not providing any explanation of my absence. That kind of behavior is extremely unprofessional and I regret it. I'll make sure it's the last time. Tyler - legitimate reason. Stephano - non-legitimate reason. end of thread. lol Illegitimate. Sorry. you sure? Yes? I suspect you're misunderstanding the point of my post.
i suspect you are a grammar nazi who is mistaken. please feel free to pm as to why non-legitimate is improper. thanks and have a great day.
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On January 31 2012 10:58 GreEny K wrote:
I didn't even know that Nony forfeited, and to whoever asked why he isn't as good in SC2 as he was in BW, he will be once the game develops more. He has an amazing ability to learn, which is his best attribute.
He says himself that he doesn't play the game anywhere near as much as he needs to to compete at the highest level. It's nothing to do with how developed the game is, it's to do with how much work he puts into playing
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On January 31 2012 11:44 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:37 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Medical reasons unrelated to depression. Apologies to ONOG for not providing any explanation of my absence. That kind of behavior is extremely unprofessional and I regret it. I'll make sure it's the last time. Tyler - legitimate reason. Stephano - non-legitimate reason. end of thread. lol
You understand how completely irrelevant it is at the end of the day?
He may as well be lying,which I'm not saying he is,but there is no way to prove that he is or isn't.
There is no governing body that checks up players on the reasons why they decided to act the way they did.
For now,you have people that are brutally honest about the reason they did something.
Do you honestly expect this honesty to be preserved in a community where a witch hunt ensues every time something like this happens?
People are going to stop being honest and start being smart and lie.Straight up.And there will be no way for you to find out if they forfeited because they were feeling like it,if they were sick,or if they were match fixing so they threw the game.
There is no way to know these things in esports today as it is.
So these threads serve no purpose what so ever apart from crucifying players for honesty.
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Stephano should have just said he was sick. That seems to be the popular excuse among starcraft pro's. Everyone is always sick, must be some kind of uncurable disease these people keep passing to eachother
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On January 31 2012 11:56 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:54 NoCatsCradle wrote:On January 31 2012 11:50 dAPhREAk wrote:On January 31 2012 11:46 NoCatsCradle wrote:On January 31 2012 11:44 dAPhREAk wrote:On January 31 2012 11:37 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Medical reasons unrelated to depression. Apologies to ONOG for not providing any explanation of my absence. That kind of behavior is extremely unprofessional and I regret it. I'll make sure it's the last time. Tyler - legitimate reason. Stephano - non-legitimate reason. end of thread. lol Illegitimate. Sorry. you sure? Yes? I suspect you're misunderstanding the point of my post. i suspect you are a grammar nazi who is mistaken. please feel free to pm as to why non-legitimate is improper. thanks and have a great day.
" thanks and have a great day"
That's too kind of you. It's almost as if you don't mean it at all.
But I'll PM you nonetheless.
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On January 31 2012 11:58 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:44 dAPhREAk wrote:On January 31 2012 11:37 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
Medical reasons unrelated to depression. Apologies to ONOG for not providing any explanation of my absence. That kind of behavior is extremely unprofessional and I regret it. I'll make sure it's the last time. Tyler - legitimate reason. Stephano - non-legitimate reason. end of thread. lol You understand how completely irrelevant it is at the end of the day. He may as well be lying,which I'm not saying he is,but there is no way to prove that he is or isn't. There is no governing body that checks up players on the reasons why they decided to act the way they did. For now,you have people that are brutally honest about the reason they did something. Do you honestly expect this honesty to be preserved in a community where a witch hunt ensues every time something like this happens? People are going to stop being honest and start being smart and lie.Straight up.And there will be no way for you to find out if they forfeited because they were feeling like it,if they were sick,or if they were match fixing so they threw the game. There is no way to know these things in esports today as it is. So these threads serve no purpose what so ever apart from crucifying players for honesty.
tyler is awesome and when he was questioned, he stepped up and explained it (and apologized).
stephano's twitter post and actions are dickish.
yes, it does matter. i respect tyler more and more, dislike stephano more and more.
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I think forfeiting during a group stage is chump change compared to forfeiting a FINALS. Am I the only one that see's that? Seriously? Group stage v. finals?
Oh and, medical complication v. too tired because I played in two tournaments in a single day?
Are people forgetting that there's always context to issues and that it's never black and white?
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On January 31 2012 11:58 magnaflow wrote:
Stephano should have just said he was sick. That seems to be the popular excuse among starcraft pro's. Everyone is always sick, must be some kind of uncurable disease these people keep passing to eachother
Have you ever tried traveling frequently to events where you physically interact (handshakes hugs etc.) with a lot of people?
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Let's put it simply down on the line, in laymen terms.
Do these kinds of threads pop up every time ANY player forfeits a tournament? Answer: NO
Remember when IdrA forfeited vs Nerchio. Was there a thread about it? NO
Remember when X player quit, where is the thread on it? NON EXISTENT
Therefore, attacking another player in defense of another player is incorrect, and known as "chainsaw defense". If people cannot see the difference between forfeiting in the finals and first round, in no right persons' mind can we have a legitimate discussion here. People are "white knighting" Stephano, not Tyler. Case Closed.
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On January 31 2012 11:55 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:54 tsuxiit wrote:
This thread shouldn't even exist. Tyler forfeiting the first round of this tournament isn't notable; the only reason we're even discussing it is because Hot_Bid made a post about Stephano and some moron tried to call him out about not talking about TL members forfeiting things. The reaction is totally disproportional to the offense. the only people being disproportionate are the army of white knights coming to to tylers defence. the OP asked a question in a reasonable and manner way, and tyler replied. its only tylers defenders who are getting stressed out about this. Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:54 LuckyFool wrote:On January 31 2012 11:49 The Void wrote:
This thread IS necessary!
If the other one is. (and it is) Why? The two things are so insanely different in magnitude I think it's absurd to try to even compare them. Its like comparing a minor scratch on a windshield to car getting totaled. minor scratches on windshields dramatically reduce their strength and are a major safety hazard, turned out your metaphor was pretty good after all
lol?
I think this thread is a complete waste of space and unnecessary. Should we start a thread for every first round withdrawal out of every event when a player has an unseen conflict arise?
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On January 31 2012 11:54 kochujang wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:47 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 11:45 kochujang wrote:On January 31 2012 11:43 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 11:41 kochujang wrote:On January 31 2012 11:35 rotegirte wrote:On January 31 2012 11:31 kochujang wrote:On January 31 2012 10:56 memcpy wrote:On January 31 2012 10:49 nGBeast wrote:On January 31 2012 10:48 NoCatsCradle wrote:
Pretty unprofessional behavior by Tyler.
I wonder if this incident will prevent tournament organizers from inviting him in the future. Give me a fucking break, all you people who were bitching in the other thread about Tyler FF is not the same as Stephano FF a finals match. Community starting unneeded drama as always. At what point exactly does it become ok to forfeit? Group play, ro16, ro8, ro4, finals? It is never ok to forfeit. Just like it is not ok to miss a doctors appointment or exams. The consequences may vary depending on the level of importance. Of course I can stop writing in the middle of an exam and walk out of the door. And I will get exactly the appropriate points for the correct solutions I have filled in up to that point. And I won't be deducted any points for walking out 1 answer short. Um... you know, your analogy can be interpreted in many different ways, like Idra would gg/walk out prematurely. I think you have misunderstood what I was trying to tell. Miss exams-> flunk, miss doctors appointment->make a new one. Yes, and Stephano didn't miss the tournament. He showed up and reached the finals. He then walked out of the door. Same as showing up to the exam and leaving early. Lol, I give up. You never really argued against it, but fair enough. You completely disregard the fact he participated in 99% of the tournament, and draw parallels to "not even showing up". I wanted to give an example of importance, not action. The analogy was unfortunate, because I drew unintended parallels. I never stated if an action is ok or not, but the consequences are bigger/smaller on the level of importance. What I wanted to say, is if the level of importance is relevant to forfeiting. E.g. in FXO KOTH some players forfeit, and new players are replaced (or not) on the fly without any repercussion or break of the flow. Tyler did it in a group stage in a tournament, Stephano in the finals. What about qualifiers? We see forfeits there also. Is it important enough? Does it depend on the viewers?
Now we're getting there. I for one don't hold any qualms with Idra, Naniwa, Stephano, White-Ra or Tyler for forfeiting at various stages. I am also not bothered with events worrying about their own profit and publicity.
No show --> no event --> no money --> no players --> no show. It's a circle.
The problem is exactly what you have asked in bold. Virtually any written rule about forfeiting no matter how it is formulated will be more beneficial for all parties involved than it is right now with every tournament either not bothering at all or inventing rules on the fly (and maybe deciding entirely different the next time). This situation encourages players to be simply lying. Stephano could have chosen one of a myriad of "legitimate" excuses like "Oh my internet died". He simply chose the wrong one.
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♥ tyler, hopefully we can now move on from this...
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On January 31 2012 12:01 LuckyFool wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2012 11:55 turdburgler wrote:On January 31 2012 11:54 tsuxiit wrote:
This thread shouldn't even exist. Tyler forfeiting the first round of this tournament isn't notable; the only reason we're even discussing it is because Hot_Bid made a post about Stephano and some moron tried to call him out about not talking about TL members forfeiting things. The reaction is totally disproportional to the offense. the only people being disproportionate are the army of white knights coming to to tylers defence. the OP asked a question in a reasonable and manner way, and tyler replied. its only tylers defenders who are getting stressed out about this. On January 31 2012 11:54 LuckyFool wrote:On January 31 2012 11:49 The Void wrote:
This thread IS necessary!
If the other one is. (and it is) Why? The two things are so insanely different in magnitude I think it's absurd to try to even compare them. Its like comparing a minor scratch on a windshield to car getting totaled. minor scratches on windshields dramatically reduce their strength and are a major safety hazard, turned out your metaphor was pretty good after all lol? I think this thread is a complete waste of space and unnecessary. Should we start a thread for every first round withdrawal out of every event when a player has an unseen conflict arise?
dont make metaphors if you dont know what your talking about then.
secondly, its not a "first round" he didnt enter this. it was a community invitational. this is the whole reason stephano is getting shit on for his choice. that being said, this isnt an issue, tyler was ill, thats ok. but that doesnt mean to say people cant ask.
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Seriously? You want to create a thread for something that's unimportant? You're just trolling TL right now..
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EPT
