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On January 20 2012 14:58 Sanjuro wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 14:51 theBALLS wrote:
Well, all I'm wondering is WHY rekrul posted this "apology".
He wouldn't do this without stimuli. Those 3 points really made Coach lee like a villain in one of those ridiculous soap operas, sure nothing has changed in this situation but those 3 points really made a bad impact on the perceptions of Coach Lee's character.
And he is no longer is a villain with those points cleared up? He's now a moral beacon of light?
btw your sig is very appropriate to this thread.
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This changes very little, and it wouldn't surprise me if that camera stuff was actually true. Coach Lee is a massive D-Bag.
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Good post. Glad you are owning up to it.
However, I really didn't like that Chill basically said in the last post: "if you disagree with rekrul but have no evidence it is a bannable offense." Some of the stuff you said in that post really did seem over the top, and a lot of people called you out on it but were for the most part shouted down by moderators and forum vets. Yeah you do provide a lot of inside information.. but even a little research would have shown that some of your info was incorrect (Coach Lee wasn't desperate or whatever - I remember someone pointing to a link that said he ran a pc bang or something).
Also, I think it was a poor choice to delete the thread because now all the posts of the warnings/bans given for no reason are gone and everything I am quoting is from memory. I guess it is in the interest of the TL staff/you, but still kinda shady imo.
Edit: Edit: having TL delete the entire thread as it is too libelous.
It definitely would have been better to put a disclaimer "THIS INFORMATION IS INCORRECT" at the top of the thread or something and lock it, with a link to this thread.
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Now, the big question is, who is going to make a good thread bashing GomTV for doing what they did to Naniwa? Please, somebody, do it!
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On January 20 2012 14:59 whatwhatanut wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 14:46 ChuCky.Ca wrote:On January 20 2012 14:37 whatwhatanut wrote:On January 20 2012 14:33 DrunkenTemplar wrote:On January 20 2012 14:31 StyLeD wrote:On January 20 2012 14:29 DrunkenTemplar wrote:On January 20 2012 14:27 Ruscour wrote:
You were so goddamn aggressive in your last post and you went as far as you could to shit on Coach Lee, then when it turns out you're wrong everything's fine? Old boys club around here I guess. Ammendments didn't actually change anything significant...in the thread that is now deleted Rekrul just changed the bit about the hidden video to "it has been speculated by others that..." or words to that effect Edit: lol double words Rekrul should have never lambasted Coach Lee based on something he heard "through the grapevine". About that one thing, sure. About the Lee poaching OGS players behind Spunky's back and the whole confrontation at the house, he absolutely should have lambasted him. I don't nessecarily agree with what Lee did but I can't say that he did anything legally or ethically wrong. OGS had an "open" house and no player contracts from my take. So he just took advantage of the oppurtunity as did the players. No blame should fall squarely on his shoulders as ultimately the players decided to join TSL, no one forced them. legally wrong no ethically wrong yes. I still can't really see how Lee is at fault. I would lay the blame on the players but maybe that is cause I am a fan of free business competition and protecting your products with contracts and copyrights. No contract, no recourse, no wrongdoing by Lee is my take.
In that case I assume you think that Lee stirring up so much drama in the Puma/aLive situations was completely unjustified. Not trying to critique your views or anything, more of a legitimate question.
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I still don't like coach Lee. Even though a few things may have been "rumors". He still seems extremely shallow and did as well steal FD and tester under Spunky. The situation with Puma got put under the rug because it was the first incident, but when it happens a second time with the same situation, It's a lot harder to believe. From interviews with aLive and Fnatic it seems coach Lee likes to "cause drama" in hopes people take pitty for him and follow TSL because he had been "done wrong" by other teams.
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On January 20 2012 14:31 StyLeD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 14:29 DrunkenTemplar wrote:On January 20 2012 14:27 Ruscour wrote:
You were so goddamn aggressive in your last post and you went as far as you could to shit on Coach Lee, then when it turns out you're wrong everything's fine? Old boys club around here I guess. Ammendments didn't actually change anything significant...in the thread that is now deleted Rekrul just changed the bit about the hidden video to "it has been speculated by others that..." or words to that effect Edit: lol double words Rekrul should have never lambasted Coach Lee based on something he heard "through the grapevine".
Yes and no. I think it's always a good thing for the community to get this stuff out in the open, rather than having it explode. At least when stuff is put out there, individuals have the ability to clear up misunderstandings and get all sides of a story. Just need to be a bit more neutral in how the information is presented IMO.
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perfectly timed press release to affect alive's Gsl performance...
Before Fnatic actually acquired him to affect alive'ss chances of being picked up.l
Coach Lees two birds with one stone ...was thrown too lightly... And it dropped on his face
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On January 20 2012 15:01 getSome[703] wrote:
Good post. Glad you are owning up to it.
However, I really didn't like that Chill basically said in the last post: "if you disagree with rekrul but have no evidence it is a bannable offense." Some of the stuff you said in that post really did seem over the top, and a lot of people called you out on it but were for the most part shouted down by moderators and forum vets. Yeah you do provide a lot of inside information.. but even a little research would have shown that some of your info was incorrect (Coach Lee wasn't desperate or whatever - I remember someone pointing to a link that said he ran a pc bang or something).
Also, I think it was a poor choice to delete the thread because now all the posts of the warnings/bans given for no reason are gone and everything I am quoting is from memory. I guess it is in the interest of the TL staff/you, but still kinda shady imo.
Good points. Some of the moderators on here are ridiculous, and while being ridiculous, try to sound intelligent. The way Chill was going overboard with praising Rekrul and banning others was childish. Not even sure what he has to gain by acting like a dick, it certainly isn't going to add to his fanbase as a caster, at the very least.
I mean, I had no problem with Rekrul's previous thread or posts. My problem is with warning/banning stuff. Does TL really take a lot of damage from such simple posts? It's understandable for some posts, but I think such posts are one in 1000 or may be 10 000. Trying to enforce certain ethical guidelines to fans, who are apriori biased is stupid.
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most important part about poaching fd/tester still reamains true. doesn't change much still seems like a untrustworthy guy.
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The fact is (for all you doubters of his "integrity") he wanted to get the news out. He posts it. He realizes mistakes 8 hours (or so) later. he fixes them right away. What has coach lee said about Puma and aLive being poached? Has he ever brought this (or his mistakes) up and said I'm sorry, but I still don't deserve this? Has he owned up to his mistakes?
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On January 20 2012 15:04 Xxavi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 15:01 getSome[703] wrote:
Good post. Glad you are owning up to it.
However, I really didn't like that Chill basically said in the last post: "if you disagree with rekrul but have no evidence it is a bannable offense." Some of the stuff you said in that post really did seem over the top, and a lot of people called you out on it but were for the most part shouted down by moderators and forum vets. Yeah you do provide a lot of inside information.. but even a little research would have shown that some of your info was incorrect (Coach Lee wasn't desperate or whatever - I remember someone pointing to a link that said he ran a pc bang or something).
Also, I think it was a poor choice to delete the thread because now all the posts of the warnings/bans given for no reason are gone and everything I am quoting is from memory. I guess it is in the interest of the TL staff/you, but still kinda shady imo.
Good points. Some of the moderators on here are ridiculous, and while being ridiculous, try to sound intelligent. The way Chill was going overboard with praising Rekrul and banning others was childish. Not even sure what he has to gain by acting like a dick, it certainly isn't going to add to his fanbase as a caster, at the very least. I mean, I had no problem with Rekrul's previous thread or posts. My problem is with warning/banning stuff. Does TL really take a lot of damage from such simple posts? It's understandable for some posts, but I think such posts are one in 1000 or may be 10 000. Trying to enforce certain ethical guidelines to fans, who are apriori biased is stupid.
Its too bad that thread was deleted because everyone that got banned were trolls and it was obvious. Everyone that got banned were also reported by various people, I would know because I would try and report them but they were already reported.
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I had intended this to be a blog, but apparently this didn't belong in the blogs section and in here instead.
I'm writing this mostly for myself, as I'd like to express my thoughts on the entire situation in some form, however I've been asked by a few people to share my views as I've been one of the more vocal TSL supporters on the site as of late. Don't expect this to be thoroughly proofread as my news posts are, as I want to spill words out and then be done with it. As a friend, the entire situation has not only shaken my views on Coach Lee as a person, but as a leader as well.
That being said, it's not hard to know I'm a big TSL fan and supporter if you spend a decent amount of time around here. I tend to pride myself on knowing many things about the TSL team, and it was very considerate of Coach Lee to allow me to be the one releasing things to the public. As I am not a speaker of the Korean language however, I should have realized that the information I received was not only limited by the amount of interaction between the two languages, but by professionalism as well. I constantly got updates behind the scenes on my favorite team, sure, but I was a little blinded simply by the nature of our interaction. With the recent revelation by Rekrul, which I have no reason to believe is false, and no evidence pointing to the contrary, my whole view on TSL, not as a team of players, but as a group held together by what I once thought was the infallible Coach Lee has been shaken at the foundation.
When I at first heard news that there was a possibility of a partnership between Fnatic and TSL, I was very excited. It would mean that I might have a chance to see more of my favorite players at international events as well as helping the team bolster it's already weakened roster. I was happy to see Rain back in the TSL house, training for the Code A qualifiers and things seemed to be going well. Shortly thereafter, I was privileged enough to learn the identity of a new TSL player, which excited me very much for the upcoming GSTL, so much that I penned a BroodWar-esque hype thread for TSL. Mere hours after I had written it, however, the clouds began to darken as news was passed to me about the situation involving the Fnatic translator and the failure of the TSL/Fnatic partnership. At this point I think it's important to remind you that my information all came from the TSL side of things, and as a fan I was extremely angry and disappointed with Fnatic. In the same timespan, I also found out about Fnatic signing Moon, and while I was happy that Moon had finally found a team for Starcraft 2, I was upset that it was Fnatic, as I felt I could no longer support anyone from the organization including players.
Fast forward a few days, and the Fnatic hype video for Moon is revealed and I did an extremely rash and unprofessional thing confirming not only that the player in question WAS Moon, but also that aLive had left for Fnatic (keep in mind I only had the TSL information at this point). After Fnatics announcement of Moon, many people began to doubt my information (despite the fact that by then aLive's name had been removed from the TSL roster and his Twitter had changed). I knew it was only a matter of time before someone spoke out at the aLive/TSL/Fnatic debacle. I happened to be sitting at my computer as the news broke, and spent the next few hours fiercely defending my friend from other forum-goers. I even went as far as to insinuate that ToD, a Fnatic player, was misinformed and that Fnatic had, in fact, wronged TSL. Shortly thereafter, Fnatic released their statement, and while somewhat vaguely worded, it began to call into question my belief in the information I had received.
Shortly after , I received news (not from Coach Lee, but a source that will remain anonymous) that another TSL Player, Heart had left the team. This has since been refuted by Coach Lee, but he has not been able to clarify the situation, or why the e-mail I had seen would exist. Furthermore, upon discussion with other forum-goers someone on TeamLiquid told me to "update my signature" as Heart had also left the team (something I did not think should have been released publicly at the time). I kept acting to defend Coach Lee, as more and more people began to harshly criticize him and say hurtful things about my friend which I knew he was silently reading. I went to sleep last night slightly depressed about the whole situation.
I woke up this morning, and came across Rekrul's revelation about the situation involving Coach Lee, oGsSpunky, TesteR and Fruitdealer. I will say that never have I been that speechless in my life. Knowing Rekrul to be an extremely reliable source, I was not only extremely shocked that the Coach Lee I knew could do something like that, but also continue to act as he did in situations like the PuMa/EG deal and this current debacle. I could perhaps have fully understood if the situation had occurred and Coach Lee perhaps repented and changed his ways, but the more I looked at it, and analyzed it I couldn't force myself to believe he had.
I would like to first apologize to anyone I may have offended with comments regarding TSL and/or their remarks about Coach Lee. I don't think I said anything particularly insulting, but if I did, I apologize. Furthermore, I would also like to state that I'm not turning against my friend Coach Lee. Perhaps TT1 and I have different views on life, but I never think it's a good idea to give anyone the "blackbook 4 life" treatment. I am certainly willing to give him a second chance should he accept responsibility for what he may or may not have done, and I think the community should be willing to do the same.
On another note, this has been an eye-opening experience to me. Recently, I have taken on a very public and official role as a Team Manager, and I have realized that when trying to interface with the community in a professional way, there's not room to also have super-fanboyish tendencies. While I will still cheer for my favorite players from the team, I won't be expressing it nearly as much or as often simply because I plan to busy myself with other facets of eSports. As such, in the future I will not only be working harder to better my own team, and help my own extremely talented and hard-working players succeed, but to also bring more content from my contacts in the Korean scene to the foreign eye. I hope you will all join me in supporting my players at Team Clash in the times to come.
Thanks for reading,
Virgil
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I thought the camera was very far fetched. Thanks Lurker hehehh
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On January 20 2012 14:51 theBALLS wrote:
Well, all I'm wondering is WHY rekrul posted this "apology".
He wouldn't do this without stimuli.
Coach Lee made him an offer he couldn't refuse.
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I'm glad this has been cleared up. Rekrul's main point, about Coach Lee being a hypocrite, was devastating enough and did not need to be enhanced by unsubstantiated gossip. Whatever happens next, looks like Coach Lee is sunk.
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I think the OP really fucked up by spreading wrong information that change the image and reputation of coach Lee and yourself. Think about this's the last time that I will ever read anything from you. If you wanna talk shit about others, at least speak the truths and be sure about it, not just I heard blah blah blah on the street.
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i wonder what dirt Coach Lee has on rekrul....shame.
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On January 20 2012 15:04 Xxavi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2012 15:01 getSome[703] wrote:
Good post. Glad you are owning up to it.
However, I really didn't like that Chill basically said in the last post: "if you disagree with rekrul but have no evidence it is a bannable offense." Some of the stuff you said in that post really did seem over the top, and a lot of people called you out on it but were for the most part shouted down by moderators and forum vets. Yeah you do provide a lot of inside information.. but even a little research would have shown that some of your info was incorrect (Coach Lee wasn't desperate or whatever - I remember someone pointing to a link that said he ran a pc bang or something).
Also, I think it was a poor choice to delete the thread because now all the posts of the warnings/bans given for no reason are gone and everything I am quoting is from memory. I guess it is in the interest of the TL staff/you, but still kinda shady imo.
Good points. Some of the moderators on here are ridiculous, and while being ridiculous, try to sound intelligent. The way Chill was going overboard with praising Rekrul and banning others was childish. Not even sure what he has to gain by acting like a dick, it certainly isn't going to add to his fanbase as a caster, at the very least. I mean, I had no problem with Rekrul's previous thread or posts. My problem is with warning/banning stuff. Does TL really take a lot of damage from such simple posts? It's understandable for some posts, but I think such posts are one in 1000 or may be 10 000. Trying to enforce certain ethical guidelines to fans, who are apriori biased is stupid.
This, I had no problem with Rekrul's post either but the superior attitude from moderators, old timers and staff members towards anyone who tried to apply even the lowest form of critical thinking to the story was remarkable. It's a shame the thread got deleted.
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Calgary25998 Posts
On January 20 2012 15:01 getSome[703] wrote:Good post. Glad you are owning up to it. However, I really didn't like that Chill basically said in the last post: "if you disagree with rekrul but have no evidence it is a bannable offense." Some of the stuff you said in that post really did seem over the top, and a lot of people called you out on it but were for the most part shouted down by moderators and forum vets. Yeah you do provide a lot of inside information.. but even a little research would have shown that some of your info was incorrect (Coach Lee wasn't desperate or whatever - I remember someone pointing to a link that said he ran a pc bang or something). Also, I think it was a poor choice to delete the thread because now all the posts of the warnings/bans given for no reason are gone and everything I am quoting is from memory. I guess it is in the interest of the TL staff/you, but still kinda shady imo. Edit: It definitely would have been better to put a disclaimer "THIS INFORMATION IS INCORRECT" at the top of the thread or something and lock it, with a link to this thread.
Yea well I didn't like that Rekrul said bullshit. WTF rekrul?
Edit: I can't overturn bans (only admins can) but they should obviously all be reversed.
Edit 2: It's not something I typically do. Just trusted Rekrul since he has a 100% success rate previous to this. People with no history here won't understand it and it's easy to say told you so. Anyways, sorry about that.
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EPT
