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Hey guys good reading, I'm not asking why I lost this game, but how to kill this specific strategy.
As a Zerg player, I'm sure we all wish that we switched to terrans because of reasons like this:
http://i.imgur.com/6nlLI.jpg
This terran got 6 bases on Shattered Temple. I couldnt out expand him, since the map is split in half.
They do this turtle-expo static defense thing on every fucking map. TalDarim is the worse, though. They get about 10 bases and make planetary with 7 turrets, a bunker with four marines and he walls off to boot. I've tried brood lords, but they don't work since the terrans army is right there, ready to defend. Ultralisks dont work, since its walled off and, again, there is a terran army that is willing to 1a2a3a on over in order to defend.
So, Zergs, how do you kill this shit like I linked in the replay? Happens every game, and Zerg cant do an equivelant of that without being retarded.
EDIT: Ignore my bad macro, thats not why I lost. I lost this game and all my other late late game ZvTs because he can get all the bases he wants and make them practically invincible.
Banelings work yes, but if he counter attacks, I die. Besides, he walls. I would need about ~38 banelings to kill the barracks, the bunker and the planetary.
Double EDIT: I dont need to post a replay, I mean how do I kill crap like this in general?
Triple EDIT: My macro was fine, that screenshot was when i was saving up for tier 3 units, ultras banes festors etc.
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Your macro was horrendous compared to that terran. if you spent all that money on broods and infestors, maybe you wouldnt complain. And Lol, ladder is infested with zergs, idk what you're talking about. Zergs arent switching to terran en masse.
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On January 11 2012 10:01 deber459 wrote:
Your macro was horrendous compared to that terran. if you spent all that money on broods and infestors, maybe you wouldnt complain. And Lol, ladder is infested with zergs, idk what you're talking about. Zergs arent switching to terran en masse.
Thats not what I was talking about. Read the OP instead of clicking the link and being like "LAWL BAD MACRO"
My macro was fine, that screenshot was when i was saving up for tier 3 units, ultras banes festors etc.
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Without a replay, it's hard to tell what's happening....... That link also showed nothing but bad macro lol.
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I dont see a replay whatsoever
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On January 11 2012 10:03 deber459 wrote:
Without a replay, it's hard to tell what's happening.......
I am not talking about this specific game, I am talking about in general.
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EDIT
There's a lot of things that can lead up to that point that are avoidable, which is why a replay is usually a good idea when asking for help.
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lol
you basically say 'dont help me, just listen to me QQ'
also, broodlords are good
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On January 11 2012 10:04 halfies wrote:
lol
you basically say 'dont help me, just listen to me QQ'
also, broodlords are good
Well, banelings are inefficent and he can defend it vs Broods/Ultas if he has the right army. Those are the two ways people tell me to defend it.
I want help, its just those specific ways dont work.
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If that's a serious question: Broodlords. They outrange everything there. Just stay outside fo range and kill it slowly and painfully.
Terran has to react with his army .. and then you hopefully have an army too.
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On January 11 2012 10:03 Lebzetu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 10:03 deber459 wrote:
Without a replay, it's hard to tell what's happening....... I am not talking about this specific game, I am talking about in general.
In general, it is depedent on the game and on the player(s).
Post the replay, it's always your fault, not the opponent (because you can't change how the opponent plays, you can only improve yourself).
In general, it's because of bad Macro lol
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Ignore my bad macro, thats not why I lost.
Actually, that probably is why you lost.
In the screenshot, you can see the Terran wasted a lot of minerals on static defense, and is not even mining at full capacity from that base.
Additionally, we can not help you with your problems unless you provide replays. What league are you in? If below Masters, judging by the screenshot, I assume you are, you certainly must work on your macro. Believing that "it's not my macro" is only worsening your problem, and eventually you will fall into a downward spiral of losing and self-hate.
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Since you're being vague with the description, I'll be vague with an answer - Play better than your opponent? Don't let him get so many bases up?
Replays will help people determine faults in your play, not just in ONE game - but in your play in general. Upload multiple replays if you are getting pwnt by Terran's "every fucking map" and people can help you
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On January 11 2012 10:05 Lebzetu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 10:04 halfies wrote:
lol
you basically say 'dont help me, just listen to me QQ'
also, broodlords are good Well, banelings are inefficent and he can defend it vs Broods/Ultas if he has the right army. Those are the two ways people tell me to defend it. I want help, its just those specific ways dont work.
Youre not being specific at all, but want detailed and specific responses.
Good one
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On January 11 2012 10:06 JrClimbers wrote:Actually, that probably is why you lost. In the screenshot, you can see the Terran wasted a lot of minerals on static defense, and is not even mining at full capacity from that base. Additionally, we can not help you with your problems unless you provide replays. What league are you in? If below Masters, judging by the screenshot, I assume you are, you certainly must work on your macro. Believing that "it's not my macro" is only worsening your problem, and eventually you will fall into a downward spiral of losing and self-hate.
On January 11 2012 10:02 Lebzetu wrote:
My macro was fine, that screenshot was when i was saving up for tier 3 units, ultras banes festors etc.
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On January 11 2012 10:07 Lebzetu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 10:06 JrClimbers wrote:Ignore my bad macro, thats not why I lost. Actually, that probably is why you lost. In the screenshot, you can see the Terran wasted a lot of minerals on static defense, and is not even mining at full capacity from that base. Additionally, we can not help you with your problems unless you provide replays. What league are you in? If below Masters, judging by the screenshot, I assume you are, you certainly must work on your macro. Believing that "it's not my macro" is only worsening your problem, and eventually you will fall into a downward spiral of losing and self-hate. Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 10:02 Lebzetu wrote:
My macro was fine, that screenshot was when i was saving up for tier 3 units, ultras banes festors etc.
Your macro wasn't fine. We don't take your word on it and if you want our word, you better provide proof behind your claim.
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Eh, brood lords will definitely help with a side of infestors. And yes, better macro would've helped a lot.
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hmm, 5K/2K is really good macro when you're not maxed.........
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The classic “Why did I lose this game?”. For these threads it is absolutely required that you post a replay. No exceptions. Nobody is going to be able to help you if you won’t post a replay.
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On January 11 2012 10:09 deber459 wrote:
hmm, 5K/2K is really good macro when you're not maxed.........
yeah, good reading.
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Yeah, even with saving for broodlords, you can't possibly get 5k unless you have poor macro. Even in the later games, it's very hard to reach that with proper macro, upgrades and harassment.
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Your macro is probably terrible and that is the reason you have trouble. A zerg with good macro never has trouble with planetaries - I played a game vs jEcho where he baneling'd my 4th base PF twice and lived just because he had infestors and really good macro. Good macro and timely hive tech will make this not even a challenge.
Also, read this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=296080#19
Game in question: http://drop.sc/89197
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You let him get 6 bases while wasting that many minerals on those static defenses. Your macro was BAD.
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On January 11 2012 10:10 a176 wrote:Show nested quote +The classic “Why did I lose this game?”. For these threads it is absolutely required that you post a replay. No exceptions. Nobody is going to be able to help you if you won’t post a replay.
Too bad im not asking why I lost a game, Im talking about this strategy in general.
"In a [Q] thread you may ask about a specific, situational strategy, whether that is executing it yourself of playing against it. It is very important that you keep these threads specific. A general "How to FE against Zerg?" is not acceptable. This is the most important distinction from the [H] threads. As with [H] thread you must post one or several replays.
"
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Please post a replay of this game. One can only assume that you're making all the wrong mistakes from that screenshot alone.
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Blord infestor will sort that out. His army shouldn't get underneath caus of fungal
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Speaking as a terran player, I'm actually far more worried by ultras and infestors than by broodlords. Just a few vikings combined with the slow speed of the broodlords can make them very sad, as long as I unsiege and leave with my ground army.
If you can manage to morph the broods close to the terran base, or somehow manage to get them to him unscouted, they can work out well. But ultras can be really excellent performers even if they are scouted - they soak up alot of tank and marine fire and really help your speedlings and banelings to close on the tanks and marines respectively.
That said, most zerg at my level have an odd tendency to completely forget to include corrupters with the broodlords - they often just morph everything.
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On January 11 2012 10:11 Lebzetu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 10:10 a176 wrote:The classic “Why did I lose this game?”. For these threads it is absolutely required that you post a replay. No exceptions. Nobody is going to be able to help you if you won’t post a replay. Too bad im not asking why I lost a game, Im talking about this strategy in general. "In a [Q] thread you may ask about a specific, situational strategy, whether that is executing it yourself of playing against it. It is very important that you keep these threads specific. A general "How to FE against Zerg?" is not acceptable. This is the most important distinction from the [H] threads. As with [H] thread you must post one or several replays. "
The answer is: have better macro
General questions, get general answers. Poor macro.
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On January 11 2012 10:13 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 10:11 Lebzetu wrote:On January 11 2012 10:10 a176 wrote:The classic “Why did I lose this game?”. For these threads it is absolutely required that you post a replay. No exceptions. Nobody is going to be able to help you if you won’t post a replay. Too bad im not asking why I lost a game, Im talking about this strategy in general. "In a [Q] thread you may ask about a specific, situational strategy, whether that is executing it yourself of playing against it. It is very important that you keep these threads specific. A general "How to FE against Zerg?" is not acceptable. This is the most important distinction from the [H] threads. As with [H] thread you must post one or several replays. " The answer is: have better macroGeneral questions, get general answers. Poor macro.
What if I blacked out the resources? Would you still say bad macro?
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your Country52798 Posts
I'm watching this thread quietly.
@OP
Do you think that whining is going to get you anywhere? How far? If your claims are true and you seek help, you shall not be afraid to post a replay and enlighten us on your mistakes. Otherwise, your thread will soon reside at the top of the closed forums, slipping into the abyss of terrible threads.
Edit:
What if I blacked out the resources? Would you still say bad macro?
Yes, we would, as a good Zerg with proper macro would utilize the swarm to prevent this atrocity; thus, he would claim victory.
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On January 11 2012 10:16 TehTemplar wrote:
I'm watching this thread quietly.
@OP
Do you think that whining is going to get you anywhere? How far? If your claims are true and you seek help, you shall not be afraid to post a replay and enlighten us on your mistakes. Otherwise, your thread will soon reside at the top of the closed forums, slipping into the abyss of terrible threads.
Not even whining, people arent saying how to kill bases like that, which is the point of this thread.
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On January 11 2012 10:16 Lebzetu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 10:13 Torte de Lini wrote:On January 11 2012 10:11 Lebzetu wrote:On January 11 2012 10:10 a176 wrote:The classic “Why did I lose this game?”. For these threads it is absolutely required that you post a replay. No exceptions. Nobody is going to be able to help you if you won’t post a replay. Too bad im not asking why I lost a game, Im talking about this strategy in general. "In a [Q] thread you may ask about a specific, situational strategy, whether that is executing it yourself of playing against it. It is very important that you keep these threads specific. A general "How to FE against Zerg?" is not acceptable. This is the most important distinction from the [H] threads. As with [H] thread you must post one or several replays. " The answer is: have better macroGeneral questions, get general answers. Poor macro. What if I blacked out the resources? Would you still say bad macro?
Yeah, I would because you'd be able to crush that with your better technology that'd have come sooner, in larger force and with better upgrades.
In addition, you'd be able to reinforce your army instanteously and this question wouldn't come up. He has 4 AA and 2 bunkers, have you done the math on how much that costs and that deters from his main army, which, by the way, could only be in one to two spots if you pushed with half of your force to attack one of his many expansions.
Let's not forget, with good macro, you'd have good forms of harassment and be able to continually damage his various structures or bases and retreat fast before he'd be able to defend.
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its probably your macro and just bad decision making (what to spend money on).
you can still muta harass. you can drop. you can attack his other base(s).
if this is midgame since that looks like his natural(assuming 1st expo pf -,.- ), you could have expanded once or twice, drone up while he wasted money on pf and turrets.
scared of counter attack? plant some baneling mines, have infestors ready. make more lings after you sac 30 banes to take down fortress.
i dont know about you but when i'm zerg, i love turtling terran. (FREE BASES!)
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On January 11 2012 09:57 Lebzetu wrote:Hey guys good reading, I'm not asking why I lost this game, but how to kill this specific strategy. As a Zerg player, I'm sure we all wish that we switched to terrans because of reasons like this: http://i.imgur.com/6nlLI.jpgThis terran got 6 bases on Shattered Temple. I couldnt out expand him, since the map is split in half. They do this turtle-expo static defense thing on every fucking map.
According to this description (turtle terran planetarying and walling in his bases) you should just expand to all bases before him. Result - map is not divided in yours and his halfs, but more like 75% to 25%. And then siege him with broodlords as other people correctly said before.
gl&hf
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ok so basicly his strategy is macro. so the hardest counter to this would be macro better.
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your Country52798 Posts
On January 11 2012 10:18 Lebzetu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 10:16 TehTemplar wrote:
I'm watching this thread quietly.
@OP
Do you think that whining is going to get you anywhere? How far? If your claims are true and you seek help, you shall not be afraid to post a replay and enlighten us on your mistakes. Otherwise, your thread will soon reside at the top of the closed forums, slipping into the abyss of terrible threads. Not even whining, people arent saying how to kill bases like that, which is the point of this thread.
Thou art running in circles, fair Zerg. You inform us of your dilemma which we inspect to the best of our ability and point out your mistakes; Alas, the solution is not the answer you seek, but one that widely solves many problems. Yes, the answer is macro better. Planetary fortresses have a finite number of hit points, use this to your advantage.
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Just post a replay. People stop giving you half-assed responses and help you. Win-win for a little bit of effort.
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On January 11 2012 10:16 Lebzetu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 10:13 Torte de Lini wrote:On January 11 2012 10:11 Lebzetu wrote:On January 11 2012 10:10 a176 wrote:The classic “Why did I lose this game?”. For these threads it is absolutely required that you post a replay. No exceptions. Nobody is going to be able to help you if you won’t post a replay. Too bad im not asking why I lost a game, Im talking about this strategy in general. "In a [Q] thread you may ask about a specific, situational strategy, whether that is executing it yourself of playing against it. It is very important that you keep these threads specific. A general "How to FE against Zerg?" is not acceptable. This is the most important distinction from the [H] threads. As with [H] thread you must post one or several replays. " The answer is: have better macroGeneral questions, get general answers. Poor macro. What if I blacked out the resources? Would you still say bad macro?
Brood lords. There you go
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On January 11 2012 09:57 Lebzetu wrote:
This terran got 6 bases on Shattered Temple. I couldnt out expand him, since the map is split in half.
They do this turtle-expo static defense thing on every fucking map. TalDarim is the worse, though. They get about 10 bases and make planetary with 7 turrets, a bunker with four marines and he walls off to boot.
It is true that shattered is one of the few maps that are possible split in a tvz. Tal'darim however is not. I don't know what league you play in, but I can assure you this is not a problem with balance. This is something only you can overcome. And you don't overcome this obstacle if you believe you lose games like this because of balance and not because of your play.
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On January 11 2012 10:20 saltymango wrote:
ok so basicly his strategy is macro. so the hardest counter to this would be macro better.
Good response, I understand that. Problem is that he split the map in half by doing this to his third (on the gold), his fourth, fifth, and sixth.
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On January 11 2012 10:05 Lebzetu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 10:04 halfies wrote:
lol
you basically say 'dont help me, just listen to me QQ'
also, broodlords are good Well, banelings are inefficent and he can defend it vs Broods/Ultas if he has the right army. Those are the two ways people tell me to defend it. I want help, its just those specific ways dont work.
they dont work because you have crap macro to back it up.
baneling inefficiency doesn't matter when you have 2 more bases and 2 macro hatches.
post a replay if you actually want help.
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Put yourself in better situation and macro better to start with. (post a replay or we can't help)
It's like saying: How do I win this and I post a picture when I'm (Z) is on 1 base and the terran got 5 bunkers below my ramp. It's what's leading up to it that matters.
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On January 11 2012 10:16 Lebzetu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 10:13 Torte de Lini wrote:On January 11 2012 10:11 Lebzetu wrote:On January 11 2012 10:10 a176 wrote:The classic “Why did I lose this game?”. For these threads it is absolutely required that you post a replay. No exceptions. Nobody is going to be able to help you if you won’t post a replay. Too bad im not asking why I lost a game, Im talking about this strategy in general. "In a [Q] thread you may ask about a specific, situational strategy, whether that is executing it yourself of playing against it. It is very important that you keep these threads specific. A general "How to FE against Zerg?" is not acceptable. This is the most important distinction from the [H] threads. As with [H] thread you must post one or several replays. " The answer is: have better macroGeneral questions, get general answers. Poor macro. What if I blacked out the resources? Would you still say bad macro?
Maybe not, but it'd still be true, lol.
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On January 11 2012 10:26 Lebzetu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 10:20 saltymango wrote:
ok so basicly his strategy is macro. so the hardest counter to this would be macro better. Good response, I understand that. Problem is that he split the map in half by doing this to his third (on the gold), his fourth, fifth, and sixth.
then i guess the fault is you let him take his third, 4th, 5th, 6th so easily.
unless he massed vikings, i'm not sure how broods would not work. even just sending 3-4 to two bases each would be enough, and use your main army to take him out while he reposition to defend against broods.
now, if you didnt have broods by the time he had 6 bases, fault would be macro.
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to kill the reinforced base in your picture: broodlords.
if you want to know what to do when his army comes out, show us a replay so we can see what his army consists of. using a single picture is an awful way to ask a question. likely, the answer will be broodlord, infestor, corruptor anyways. so....
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ur macro is bad dude, fix that and u can beat terrans ezpz
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Do you realize you have infestors? You can make a ton of infested Terrans, lose no minerals and continually harass?
He has no AA, +1 mutas and 10 mutas takes out all those turrents easily.
You can use lings to kill all those AA before the planetary kills them all and then mutas rape.
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I'm no expert on ZvT, but I've been here long enough to realize that any strategy is invincible if there is no replay. Players beat players, not strats beat strats or Race beats race. The ZvT experts can give you vague answers like they have here, but of course there will always be some negative or problem with them (If there was no weakness to going banelings as an example, it would be T that would be saying, "how the fuck do I beat this T strat?") Until they see a replay, we're all just wasting time.
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I main Z and play a lot of T and Random, and TvZ is BY FAR my most difficult matchup in the game. Not so coincidentally, ZvT is my best matchup. Unless T puts constant pressure on Z, T WILL get rolled. If T's macro isn't better, T will get rolled. If T's decision making isn't better, T will get rolled.
Stop whining about a given strat (in this case, 6 base turtle... wtf...) and improve your macro and decision making. And lmao @ floating 5k minerals but claiming your macro is not the problem. At that point you might as well take 30 drones and cover the middle of the map with spines to slow any pushes.
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If he makes all those bases without you doing anything about it, you probably didn't have vision of the map. You're telling us he expertly deflected your attempts to deny his expansions, or he did it when you weren't paying attention? PFs don't build instantly, hell they cant even be lifted into place.
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your Country52798 Posts
On January 11 2012 10:26 Lebzetu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 10:20 saltymango wrote:
ok so basicly his strategy is macro. so the hardest counter to this would be macro better. Good response, I understand that. Problem is that he split the map in half by doing this to his third (on the gold), his fourth, fifth, and sixth.
This creates a problem for him, ruining his good fortune and strengthening thy possibilities. Air harassment shall be strong, for he relies in unmoving, fixed towers and can be defeated by concentrating on where he is weak. Go now, fair Zerg, and post thy replay as an example of thy difficulties.
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#1 Turn up the details, we have 2012!
#2 If Terrans turtle like crazy just expand all over the place or drop their main...
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PS, you should change the OP from "How the fk do I kill this" to - "How can I let my macro slip for 10 minutes and allow my terran opponent to get 6 bases but still win". As my jiu jitsu coach says when students ask how to escape certain positions, "don't let him get it in the first place".
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17066 Posts
I don't understand why you're still making horrible threads in the SC2 strategy forum despite numerous warnings.
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EPT
