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On January 10 2012 15:22 askTeivospy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 15:20 Subversive wrote:On January 10 2012 15:12 askTeivospy wrote:
rofl at some of you for justifying this. he stabbed someone to death. HE KILLED SOMEONE. Bully or not he's a murderer, but its a dumb law and dumb laws are dumb
Are you really that delusional dear internet geniuses? If he was so forward thinking to bring of knife he should have been forward thinking enough to tell someone what was going to happen I don't know. I don't like violence, but I ask myself if I think this kid would have killed someone if he hadn't of been threatened/attacked and my gut answer is no. Also told someone? What "someone is going to hurt me" .... and then what? They're not going to arrest the bully -_-. Judge found it was self-defence. Which sounds to me like it was an unlucky swipe/stab with the knife from a frightened 14yo who shouldn't have been placed in the situation in the first place. ok so the best solution to bullying is for the victim to murder the bully? calling names and throwing punches are on a much lower level than *stabbing and killing* someone
It's hard to feel sympathy for someone tormenting someone else and then dying. If it turns out that the kid who was being bullied deliberately set out to murder the other kid then obviously he's the villain. If he was forced into a horrible situation then I feel sorry for both him and the deceased.
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On January 10 2012 15:06 FJ wrote:
He really drove the point home about anti-bullying. He was only acting self defense so it's ok. It was a sharp conclusion to his bullying. I don't think he will get bullied again.
*snicker* snicker* "drove the point.. home"
but on a serious note, i dont think the kid wouldve stabbed him if he didnt think he needed to.
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The aggressor here was the bully. Why would you only be outraged when the situation has escalated to this level, but not care about the circumstances that led up to this point? If you care, you'd be against the bully and want him to stop. But I get the feeling that people who talk simplistically that "murder is murder" would tell the kid who got bullied to "suck it up" or "take it like a man". It's not so simple, and this unfortunate event was the fault of both the bully and the bullied. I'm not taking an extreme side and absolving anyone of wrongdoing. However, it's not as simple as "murder is murder". It was self-defense, and I want the school environment so that a bullied kid never has to feel like he has to defend himself like this again.
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On January 10 2012 15:25 askTeivospy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 15:23 Subversive wrote:On January 10 2012 15:17 askTeivospy wrote:On January 10 2012 15:14 Indez wrote:
You can't say "bullying, that sucks doesnt give him reason to kill" do you say that to rape victims. Saavedra was just practicing modern day social cleansing. A+ for EFFORT haha rape victims don't know they're going to get raped, and comparing bullying to rape is a joke for many facts including that everyone gets bullied and bullies someone else (face it its true unless you like lying to yourself) and not everyone gets raped / rapes others A kid died, their family is shattered likely. The kid may have been wrong for bullying someone but acting like murder is justified punishment for it makes me lol. are you immature or what? If everyone's a bully then you really have to stretch the definition. And even if we accept that as true, I've never threatened someone. And I think there are plenty of others who haven't. Physically threatening someone is disgusting. Justifying murder is also disgusting
Good thing this isn't murder
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On January 10 2012 15:25 askTeivospy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 15:23 Subversive wrote:On January 10 2012 15:17 askTeivospy wrote:On January 10 2012 15:14 Indez wrote:
You can't say "bullying, that sucks doesnt give him reason to kill" do you say that to rape victims. Saavedra was just practicing modern day social cleansing. A+ for EFFORT haha rape victims don't know they're going to get raped, and comparing bullying to rape is a joke for many facts including that everyone gets bullied and bullies someone else (face it its true unless you like lying to yourself) and not everyone gets raped / rapes others A kid died, their family is shattered likely. The kid may have been wrong for bullying someone but acting like murder is justified punishment for it makes me lol. are you immature or what? If everyone's a bully then you really have to stretch the definition. And even if we accept that as true, I've never threatened someone. And I think there are plenty of others who haven't. Physically threatening someone is disgusting. Justifying murder is also disgusting
Lol whatever man. Pick a fight with someone else. Ps its been found not to be murder 
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On January 10 2012 15:22 askTeivospy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 15:20 Subversive wrote:On January 10 2012 15:12 askTeivospy wrote:
rofl at some of you for justifying this. he stabbed someone to death. HE KILLED SOMEONE. Bully or not he's a murderer, but its a dumb law and dumb laws are dumb
Are you really that delusional dear internet geniuses? If he was so forward thinking to bring of knife he should have been forward thinking enough to tell someone what was going to happen I don't know. I don't like violence, but I ask myself if I think this kid would have killed someone if he hadn't of been threatened/attacked and my gut answer is no. Also told someone? What "someone is going to hurt me" .... and then what? They're not going to arrest the bully -_-. Judge found it was self-defence. Which sounds to me like it was an unlucky swipe/stab with the knife from a frightened 14yo who shouldn't have been placed in the situation in the first place. ok so the best solution to bullying is for the victim to murder the bully? calling names and throwing punches are on a much lower level than *stabbing and killing* someone
You have to consider the kid's condition and what was happening at that moment. He was totally cornered. The bully told him what was coming. They got out of the bus and everyone cornered him. Bully throws the first punch. Kid doesn't mess around after all the torment. Let's his rage and anger take control. He loses control and stabs the bully repeatedly without a second thought because he couldn't take the anger anymore.
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a year is a long time to be bullied. he should not have let the bullying get to the stage that it did. early prevention = best solution
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On January 10 2012 15:25 askTeivospy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 15:23 Subversive wrote:On January 10 2012 15:17 askTeivospy wrote:On January 10 2012 15:14 Indez wrote:
You can't say "bullying, that sucks doesnt give him reason to kill" do you say that to rape victims. Saavedra was just practicing modern day social cleansing. A+ for EFFORT haha rape victims don't know they're going to get raped, and comparing bullying to rape is a joke for many facts including that everyone gets bullied and bullies someone else (face it its true unless you like lying to yourself) and not everyone gets raped / rapes others A kid died, their family is shattered likely. The kid may have been wrong for bullying someone but acting like murder is justified punishment for it makes me lol. are you immature or what? If everyone's a bully then you really have to stretch the definition. And even if we accept that as true, I've never threatened someone. And I think there are plenty of others who haven't. Physically threatening someone is disgusting. Justifying murder is also disgusting
So he's been bullied for a year, physically and socially abused, probably not in the best mental state ever, is under death threats, repeatedly says that he doesn't want to fight and to leave him alone and the bully attacks him anyway, possible to kill him. I'd bring the knife around and I'd probably defend myself with it too.
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On January 10 2012 15:23 acker wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 15:21 Hall0wed wrote:
If you are going to be a bully atleast practice your knife defense skills -_-
The kid was smart though, going the knife route over the gun route. Easy jail time with the gun. Stand your ground state. According to the article, "people can defend themselves if they feel threatened by any means necessary". So it's doubtful. The article could be wrong, of course. Show nested quote +On January 10 2012 15:22 StarStruck wrote:
A parent cannot help their child when they are unaware of what's going on. It's all about communication. Even if they noticed something was wrong with the boy it would probably still be hard to get an answer out of him as to what was really going on.
It's not so simple and straight forward as you make it out to be. Generally, parents instill a certain set of morals into their children, which become fairly concrete by the age of ten or so. It's clear that somewhere in the process, his parents failed in teaching him how to not be an asshole. Of course, the school takes part time duty in this after the age of six, so they bear some responsibility as well. The other option, of course, is that the kid's genes were "pro-bully" or something.
Bull fucking shit.
Teaching your kid morals is one thing. However, that's irrelevant in this case as there was a clear disconnect between line of communication between child and parent. They were obviously clueless as to what was happening.
I don't think you have any right to judge the parents on this matter based on so little info.
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As a strong proponent of the right to self defence, I am glad the judge made the decision that he did.
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1. Parents don't do good enough job/shit goes down at home --> authorities (school / police / parents) don't get involved in situation --> shitty ending. Sometimes the bully dies, the victim dies, the victim gets messed up the head, or the victim becomes bitter. It's a very sad state of affairs. It's so hard to find forgiveness for someone who was an awful person in the past and then realizes it and changes.
2. I would never move to the US, but I LOVE the self defence laws that are there in place to protect people like this kid.
3. I really fucking hate bullying and I can't say that I blame the kid for knifing his bully, but it would have been better if he didn't die. I think bullies should get SERIOUSLY told about what they're doing to others and how bullying can fuck up people for life... and then get sent to juvenile.
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On January 10 2012 15:24 OrangeSoda wrote:
why do people blame the schools? I don't see what they can do, watching for 250-2500 people( however many people you got at your school) is hard to do. It is easy to look at the situation and know what should of happened if you are out of highschool, but you gotta remember this is a kid still, and they still do stupid things.
I agree, bullying sometimes goes on behind the teachers backs.
A kid in my school was always bullied by a couple of kids. He was quiet and stuck to himself and only had one friend and the other kids were always up to no good. The kid seemed nice, just a recluse who lived a poor life with his mom, but he was different because he had a rich family somewhere else.
One day, news spread that he was going to get beat up again after school by those guys. Stupidly, we did nothing about it, we just waited for school to finish and then went to take a side seat at the action. He was playing basket ball and the two kids beat the shit out of him on the basketball court.
Afterwards, we never saw him again. At that age, of course rumor was he died, but he probably moved away with family. I hope it was to somewhere nice.
Just shows, unless the teacher knows they can't stop it, and it's hard to know.
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On January 10 2012 15:29 xiaofan wrote:
a year is a long time to be bullied. he should not have let the bullying get to the stage that it did. early prevention = best solution
If there way a magical way to turn off bullying, someone would have announced it already
Fact of the matter is that many bully cases come to unfortunate ends just because the bullied cannot do anything to stop it.
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On January 10 2012 15:29 xiaofan wrote:
a year is a long time to be bullied. he should not have let the bullying get to the stage that it did. early prevention = best solution
So the onus is on the victim? I can envisage plenty of attempts to get the bullying to stop and nothing changing. I agree it would have been better if someone was resolved before this, but I can't blame the kid getting bullied.
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On January 10 2012 15:07 firehand101 wrote:
he is only a kid, but still murder is murder
So defending your own life makes you a murder? Funny world where criminals can do what they want and when they get hurt or killed during their crimes everyone is defending the poor criminals =( Seriously he bullied that kid for over a year, even the nicest dog will bite you if you keep violating it for such a long period. Thats humans and animals nature, protect your own life!
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lol at the idiots defending the bully by saying murder isnt the way if the kid does nothing things stay the same believing otherwise is delusional authorities and schools do nothing so in the end its either the bully dies or the kids commits the better outcome has arisen, things don't change in a world where change isnt accepted, so its either defend yourself or nothing changes.
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On January 10 2012 15:32 Voltaire wrote:
As a strong proponent of the right to self defence, I am glad the judge made the decision that he did.
I feel this way also, not sure why parents / teachers / police (as they could have hopefully put an end to it) weren't informed if it had reached this level, but of course I have no idea about the circumstances.
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This is awesome, true american spirit in this judge. America is not a country where you beg the authorities to take care of every problem for you, It's a country where you stand up for what is right and handle yourself accordingly.
No man in the wrong can stand up against a fellow that’s in the right and keeps on a-comin.
There's a lesson to be learned about threatening other people here, and hopefully in the future everyone is wiser about escalating things to violence because this is how it can end up.
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EPT
