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What happened in Korean stream just now. - Page 19

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Demonace34
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2493 Posts
December 14 2011 10:41 GMT
#361
On December 14 2011 19:35 Neelia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 19:14 Grettin wrote:
On December 14 2011 19:12 PET wrote:
Ok. I'm curious.

What strategies are for GOM ... ok? Is it ok to do a 6 pool? Is it ok to take 4 drones and attack? We clearly see we can't probe rush ...

Soon we will see that the minimum game requirement is 30 minutes and we get 15 minutes to "evolve" like playing on Big Game Hunters 10 years ago.


Do you understand that you can't win with a strategy like probe rush in a competition like GSL. You might not win straight-up with 6pooling, but you can follow it up and win. That is the difference between these.


Do you think you can win a GSL match with Nexus first in PvP? I'm quite certain that the chances to succeed with nexus first is about as high as the 7 probe rush. Does anyone think HerO should be punished? I don't think so.


The difference is that a 7 probe rush is a failure 99.9% of the time, Nexus first against a player who doesn't scout can actually work and be a strategy. 12 drone rush actually can work on Steppes of War back in the day, the difference is that the player doing the drone rush is trying to win, the 7 probe rush is saying, "fuck this tournament, see ya later".
NaNiwa|IdrA|HuK|iNcontroL|Jinro|NonY|Day[9]|PuMa|HerO|MMA|NesTea|NaDa|Boxer|Ryung|
Kiarip
Profile Joined August 2008
United States1835 Posts
December 14 2011 10:41 GMT
#362
On December 14 2011 19:39 vjee32 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 19:35 bluQ wrote:
On December 14 2011 19:32 vjee32 wrote:
All you babies crying that punishment is too harsh and nani did nothing AGAINST THE RULES.

Name any other professional league in any sport where trying to lose as fast as possible is not punishable?

Nani didn't broke any rules. GOM just bends their wishy-washy-you-can-interpret-it-as-you-want rules to have a basis to punish nani. If you relaly think it was against the rules why did it took them so long to figure that out?


He lost a game on purpose in a professional sport.

You tell me how that's not against the rules? (And to make this easier you can name any other sport where this is acceptable.)


... In basketball (NBA) when seeding no longer is effected teams often times don't even put their best players on the floor for a single minute...

Does anyone complain? No because these people aren't dogmatic idiots lol. The whole point of a competition is to determine the winner. that game was irrelevant with respect to determining who the winner was.

It's the tournament's organizer's responsibility to make sure that as many of the games played are meaningful as possible. This one wasn't, they shouldn't have been broadcasting it.
SenorChang
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia4730 Posts
December 14 2011 10:41 GMT
#363
I usually support GOM but this is not something I can agree with.
ლ(╹◡╹ლ)
GwSC
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1997 Posts
December 14 2011 10:41 GMT
#364
Fair, good decision.
This crap with Naniwa bm'ing tournaments was getting a little stupid. Hopefully he will learn.
raheelp
Profile Joined November 2010
United States54 Posts
December 14 2011 10:41 GMT
#365
wow what a joke go fuck yourself gom
objeCt
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden177 Posts
December 14 2011 10:42 GMT
#366
i think he deserves to be punished but not like this .-.-
m0ck
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
4194 Posts
December 14 2011 10:42 GMT
#367
On December 14 2011 19:39 vjee32 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 19:35 bluQ wrote:
On December 14 2011 19:32 vjee32 wrote:
All you babies crying that punishment is too harsh and nani did nothing AGAINST THE RULES.

Name any other professional league in any sport where trying to lose as fast as possible is not punishable?

Nani didn't broke any rules. GOM just bends their wishy-washy-you-can-interpret-it-as-you-want rules to have a basis to punish nani. If you relaly think it was against the rules why did it took them so long to figure that out?


He lost a game on purpose in a professional sport.

You tell me how that's not against the rules? (And to make this easier you can name any other sport where this is acceptable.)

It happens all the time, and it has happened before in GOM tournaments with no consequence. Throwing the game was not the issue. Maybe not pretending was.
bluQ
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Germany1724 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 10:43:08
December 14 2011 10:42 GMT
#368
On December 14 2011 19:39 vjee32 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 19:35 bluQ wrote:
On December 14 2011 19:32 vjee32 wrote:
All you babies crying that punishment is too harsh and nani did nothing AGAINST THE RULES.

Name any other professional league in any sport where trying to lose as fast as possible is not punishable?

Nani didn't broke any rules. GOM just bends their wishy-washy-you-can-interpret-it-as-you-want rules to have a basis to punish nani. If you relaly think it was against the rules why did it took them so long to figure that out?


He lost a game on purpose in a professional sport.

You tell me how that's not against the rules? (And to make this easier you can name any other sport where this is acceptable.)

Because THERE IS NOT FUCKING WRITTEN RULE which hinders you to do that. Read the rules of GOMs Tournys.
And please ... ONCE watch for example any european soccer league when its the last play day. You will see SO effin many teams which played very unmotivated because the result wont change a fuck.
Why they still play? Because they would get sued hardcore if they dont.
Did Naniwa played? Yes.
Did he played without any motivation? Yes.
Should he then have gone for 2 proxy gates instead? What would it change? Nothing.

You just cant compare traditonal sports with eSports 1-to-1.

Try it with chess and you will see that the analogy fits WAYS more than traditonal sports.
www.twitch.tv/bluquh (PoE, Starbow, HS)
Kiarip
Profile Joined August 2008
United States1835 Posts
December 14 2011 10:42 GMT
#369
On December 14 2011 19:41 Demonace34 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 19:35 Neelia wrote:
On December 14 2011 19:14 Grettin wrote:
On December 14 2011 19:12 PET wrote:
Ok. I'm curious.

What strategies are for GOM ... ok? Is it ok to do a 6 pool? Is it ok to take 4 drones and attack? We clearly see we can't probe rush ...

Soon we will see that the minimum game requirement is 30 minutes and we get 15 minutes to "evolve" like playing on Big Game Hunters 10 years ago.


Do you understand that you can't win with a strategy like probe rush in a competition like GSL. You might not win straight-up with 6pooling, but you can follow it up and win. That is the difference between these.


Do you think you can win a GSL match with Nexus first in PvP? I'm quite certain that the chances to succeed with nexus first is about as high as the 7 probe rush. Does anyone think HerO should be punished? I don't think so.


The difference is that a 7 probe rush is a failure 99.9% of the time, Nexus first against a player who doesn't scout can actually work and be a strategy. 12 drone rush actually can work on Steppes of War back in the day, the difference is that the player doing the drone rush is trying to win, the 7 probe rush is saying, "fuck this tournament, see ya later".

probe rush against a player that doesn't micro can also win.
zestzorb
Profile Joined August 2010
Thailand776 Posts
December 14 2011 10:42 GMT
#370
On December 14 2011 18:38 CryingPoo wrote:
Mr.Chae has announced that they made Code S seeds for a professional minded pro-gamer not for an amateur prize money hunter.


Very well put by Mr. Chae
dormer
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1314 Posts
December 14 2011 10:42 GMT
#371
On December 14 2011 19:40 onemanlan wrote:
So manner buildings, mule drops/spam-scans, and dancing aren't considered offensive actions, yet probe rushing is? Asinine, those actions seem way more offensive to the other player, in my opinion, than what Nani did. This whole deal has me worried on the Korean outlook of things. I'm glad they're good at games, but this seems way out of proportion.


Yeah, I understand that those things are just "accepted" and worker rushing isn't, so I totally understand Gom / Chae being upset. I just think it's too ambiguous to warrant such hard punishment.
Artosis: "You need to hold my hand." Tasteless: "I'm very good at that."
snailz
Profile Joined April 2011
Croatia900 Posts
December 14 2011 10:42 GMT
#372
i won't boycott GSL

but i won't support it either.

i loved you Mister Chae, where did we go wrong TT
"I am saying that there are 300 current pros and semi-pros that have the potential to come in and dominate SC2 at any moment, with a latency of a few months from the day they switch." - intrigue
Razakel
Profile Joined April 2011
Ireland466 Posts
December 14 2011 10:43 GMT
#373
Seems to be a lot of people disagreeing with each other. Maybe put a poll in the OP to see how the community feels about this overall, one that agrees with GOMs decision and one that disagrees. And the obligatory "I don't give a shit" option
BigBadBeaver
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada272 Posts
December 14 2011 10:43 GMT
#374
On December 14 2011 19:39 Taeng wrote:
Show nested quote +
- During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours

Offended the opponent/ audience? Nope (paranoid fans maybe).

I beg to differ
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=294331
zestzorb
Profile Joined August 2010
Thailand776 Posts
December 14 2011 10:43 GMT
#375
On December 14 2011 19:42 Kiarip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 19:41 Demonace34 wrote:
On December 14 2011 19:35 Neelia wrote:
On December 14 2011 19:14 Grettin wrote:
On December 14 2011 19:12 PET wrote:
Ok. I'm curious.

What strategies are for GOM ... ok? Is it ok to do a 6 pool? Is it ok to take 4 drones and attack? We clearly see we can't probe rush ...

Soon we will see that the minimum game requirement is 30 minutes and we get 15 minutes to "evolve" like playing on Big Game Hunters 10 years ago.


Do you understand that you can't win with a strategy like probe rush in a competition like GSL. You might not win straight-up with 6pooling, but you can follow it up and win. That is the difference between these.


Do you think you can win a GSL match with Nexus first in PvP? I'm quite certain that the chances to succeed with nexus first is about as high as the 7 probe rush. Does anyone think HerO should be punished? I don't think so.


The difference is that a 7 probe rush is a failure 99.9% of the time, Nexus first against a player who doesn't scout can actually work and be a strategy. 12 drone rush actually can work on Steppes of War back in the day, the difference is that the player doing the drone rush is trying to win, the 7 probe rush is saying, "fuck this tournament, see ya later".

probe rush against a player that doesn't micro can also win.


No you can't
Monsen
Profile Joined December 2002
Germany2548 Posts
December 14 2011 10:43 GMT
#376
On December 14 2011 19:40 StatorFlux wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 19:32 vjee32 wrote:
All you babies crying that punishment is too harsh and nani did nothing AGAINST THE RULES.

Name any other professional league in any sport where trying to lose as fast as possible is not punishable?


Not going to argue, just provide and example that it could be otherwise -
As far as I know: Professional cycling!

You have people slow pedaling, you have people riding only 3 days out of a week long race and then calling it quits just for the sake of training, you have agreements in the peloton where you don't attack and teams helping each other with favours.

You have show races where the riders are paid and the winner's are agreed upon beforehand.

And pretty anything goes, except buying real races (latest controversy Vino vs Kolobnev) and doing PED (although it is probably prevalent amongst some).

And it is accepted because everyone is doing it.

Naniwa should've known better though.


Yeah, and professional cycling has been doing so well as an spectator sport for the last dozen years. Well done them.
11 years and counting- TL #680
Weemoed
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands741 Posts
December 14 2011 10:43 GMT
#377
On December 14 2011 19:42 zestzorb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 18:38 CryingPoo wrote:
Mr.Chae has announced that they made Code S seeds for a professional minded pro-gamer not for an amateur prize money hunter.


Very well put by Mr. Chae


So, Stephano should not be in Code S as well then? He only cares about money (and I love him).
Bring me to space, and let me wander there forever
Auren
Profile Joined November 2011
United States82 Posts
December 14 2011 10:43 GMT
#378
Did I miss it or why hasn't this been announced on the english stream as well?
Veldril
Profile Joined August 2010
Thailand1817 Posts
December 14 2011 10:43 GMT
#379
On December 14 2011 19:41 Kiarip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 19:39 vjee32 wrote:
On December 14 2011 19:35 bluQ wrote:
On December 14 2011 19:32 vjee32 wrote:
All you babies crying that punishment is too harsh and nani did nothing AGAINST THE RULES.

Name any other professional league in any sport where trying to lose as fast as possible is not punishable?

Nani didn't broke any rules. GOM just bends their wishy-washy-you-can-interpret-it-as-you-want rules to have a basis to punish nani. If you relaly think it was against the rules why did it took them so long to figure that out?


He lost a game on purpose in a professional sport.

You tell me how that's not against the rules? (And to make this easier you can name any other sport where this is acceptable.)


... In basketball (NBA) when seeding no longer is effected teams often times don't even put their best players on the floor for a single minute...

Does anyone complain? No because these people aren't dogmatic idiots lol. The whole point of a competition is to determine the winner. that game was irrelevant with respect to determining who the winner was.

It's the tournament's organizer's responsibility to make sure that as many of the games played are meaningful as possible. This one wasn't, they shouldn't have been broadcasting it.


People don't complain because they know it is a chance for reserve players to show their skill and if they play really well they can be promoted to A-team. Or it can be used to give new players experience in a real game.

Please don't compare team sports with an individual sports. They are totally different.
Without love, we can't see anything. Without love, the truth can't be seen. - Umineko no Naku Koro Ni
Archontas
Profile Joined September 2010
United States319 Posts
December 14 2011 10:43 GMT
#380
I don't agree with what Naniwa did, but this is way too harsh a punishment. As well as a ridiculous stretch of what appears to be a very vaguely worded rule - what, dancing units and manner mules aren't offensive?
If you ban me, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
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