EPTI feel Starcraft 2 is very passive. - Page 24
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Natespank
Canada449 Posts
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Natespank
Canada449 Posts
Archimedes: "Give me a large enough lever and just a place to stand and I could move the world" | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
it is your choice if you want to be some 400apm sc2 beast, or some player who plays at whatever pace lets him mmm micro like anyone else. the faster, more talented player will find the gap, the chink, the timing.... this is how it was always generally like since the game evolved--past slayers_boxer's prime | ||
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Genie1
Canada333 Posts
On November 26 2011 11:57 Heldericht wrote: Actually, I'll deny that whole heartedly. Please refer to the recent Dreamhack Winter 2011 games, specifically Sheth vs ToD. http://blip.tv/day9tv/sheth-z-vs-tod-p-g1-dreamhack-winter-group-k-day-1-5766224 Insane army trades in late game. Drops by ToD constantly and overall and very exciting back and forth game. You guys are looking at BW through nostalgia tinted glasses. SC2 is an amazing, exciting game and will continue to be just that. Throwing away the first group of brood lords cost him the game because of the constant harass it was hard making brood lords and enough ground forces to make an attack. Once ToD got more then 4 bases it was over at that point he had 3 mining bases while Sheth was constantly dealing with all the harass and doing a trade for an army and losing all his main tech was another way to lose the game. The game was over for a long time but Sheth didn't want to leave and just continued to play to see if he could make anything out of it which was impossible because the income of the Protoss was greater then the income of the Zerg which is never a good sign for them. | ||
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
On November 26 2011 11:57 Heldericht wrote: Actually, I'll deny that whole heartedly. Please refer to the recent Dreamhack Winter 2011 games, specifically Sheth vs ToD. http://blip.tv/day9tv/sheth-z-vs-tod-p-g1-dreamhack-winter-group-k-day-1-5766224 Insane army trades in late game. Drops by ToD constantly and overall and very exciting back and forth game. You guys are looking at BW through nostalgia tinted glasses. SC2 is an amazing, exciting game and will continue to be just that. How many times has these argument been brought up by the people on the other side ? We bw fans looks at thing with nostalgia glasses , How is it that we are looking at our games with glasses when every time we watch a game , we get panic, worried , because our team may lose this round because of mistakes made by the individual players ? . Bw has really well developed teams and the game is just as fresh as it is , when I compared it to the game played back than in 1998 and 2011 . So much changes has been made to the game , no one in their right mind in boxer era would have expo and take multi expansion as fast as it did in the current style of playing broodwar . Game is still changing and we are seeing multiple strategies that have come up across the time , such as the queen to snipe off tanks with spawn broodling , Terran without tanks in their mech armament they are good as dead , Protoss +1 timing attack meant to destroy zergs who are greedy and wants to drone and skim on the defense . That's what baffle me with the thought of these argument keep bringing up again and again .It's getting really stale , if I am looking at a nostalgia game that still relies on boxers era 1 base build to satisfy my desire to watch broodwar than I can agree with the looking at things with nostalgia glasses .However bw current metamorphosis of new tactics and the ability to play aggressive thanks to the familiarity of macro mechanics system . It's really unpredictable what can happen on screen . Micro,Macro,multi prong drop harassment all over the map, mini battles happening at every continent of the map , every time when I see these happening on screen , I feel like I am watching broodwar again for the first time and me having the hind sight of what's happening in game because the pro players not only have to juggle between selecting every individual building to macro , he has to multi task back and forth from his base and micro to get what you are seeing on screen come alive . That to me is more than enough to stick to this game forever . | ||
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MaV_gGSC
Canada1345 Posts
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Rogerabbit_gosu
United Kingdom27 Posts
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Ohnoes02
Singapore26 Posts
Hero and sheth displayed ridiculous skill and there were engagements going all over the map the entire game. Give it time imo. Especially for the BW pros to switch over. | ||
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iky43210
United States2099 Posts
I believe the future of PvZ will be heading this way as well once people have the controls, something all of us can look forward to a year from now | ||
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Woizit
801 Posts
Boxer vs Rain was actually a unique situation because it was clear it's a situation nobody has seen before and neither player knew how to continue on from that point except to try mine more. TvT air play became a lot more refined and easier to watch in the GSL a month after that game. It should also be noted that the maps also create different activity in macro games. Daybreak seems to keep producing great macro games with the multiple quick paths/chokes. On the other hand, maps like Antiga Shipyard simply requires you to clash in the exact centre. | ||
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okrane
France265 Posts
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Micket
United Kingdom2163 Posts
I feel the other matchups are pretty dynamic, unless Terran goes mech. But I feel Terran mech is far harder than bio or P deathball and so does not happen enough to really add to the total passivity of the game. | ||
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archonOOid
1983 Posts
OP likes ZvT and TvT but doesn't mention ZvZ or PvP because those match-ups are very aggressive. It leaves out pvz and pvt match-ups which makes me think that OP ha either a negative attitude towards the players or the game design. Both those cases doesn't make for fruitful discussions as he didn't specify why that is but just a problem he has observed. C- piece. | ||
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BroodWarHD
136 Posts
Look at the foreign BW scene. Players make a lot of errors, theres tons of sloppiness and strategic mistakes, bad tactics. And yet, the games are incredibly entertaining to watch. I gotta agree that theres still a bit of that x-factor, those magic sparkles that Browder and co will have to figure out in the sc2 gameplay, including establishing defenders advantage in order for splitting up armies to have a smaller penalty, so as to have the grand feel of BW lategame. | ||
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cHeK
United States35 Posts
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
On November 26 2011 14:40 Natespank wrote: Speaking of passive games... anybody see Tod vs Happy earlier at Dreamhack? Seriously, look it up, it's hilarious- Day9 had me almost falling out of my seat laughing. I don't think it's been uploaded onto his blip channel yet. | ||
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B4_WheeL
Lithuania47 Posts
but still the game is pretty active because both games require multitasking if your multitasking is lacking of course the game will look more passive On November 23 2011 12:48 eSuBuildings wrote: Starcraft 2 is more like chess where late late game situations tend to become a matter of waiting and unit control rather than tactics. Well chess endgames don't have much tactics too it is all about waiting and execution. | ||
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razy
Russian Federation899 Posts
On November 27 2011 00:27 archonOOid wrote: OP has the wrong topic! It should be I dislike the tossball. OP likes ZvT and TvT but doesn't mention ZvZ or PvP because those match-ups are very aggressive. It leaves out pvz and pvt match-ups which makes me think that OP ha either a negative attitude towards the players or the game design. Both those cases doesn't make for fruitful discussions as he didn't specify why that is but just a problem he has observed. C- piece. PvZ is becoming great match up because players start to figure out with what they can get away in midgame (zergs aggressively expanding and forcing some response from toss who choose massive tech and harass). PvT will become fun as well once protoss will understand that they need faster third for that extra gas otherwise they'll continue struggling to fight 2 vs 2 base against bio-terrans while slowly expanding. Such kind of play favours terran a lot. | ||
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Lavi
Bangladesh793 Posts
On November 27 2011 00:20 Micket wrote: Once slow, no multitask, deathballing Protosses start losing their games, the faster SC2 will develop and move away from passive play. Unfortunately, defensive, turtly, deathball Protoss still wins most of the time and is easy to do. Furthermore, when it starts losing, Protoss starts whining, create sad zealot fanclubs, Blizzard buffs Toss and they go back to deathballing. I feel the other matchups are pretty dynamic, unless Terran goes mech. But I feel Terran mech is far harder than bio or P deathball and so does not happen enough to really add to the total passivity of the game. I'm starting to think sc2 developer really likes the deathball style... like day9 said emp is like mosquito bite radius now. MaNa already showed pre nerf of emp, toss is incredibly powerful with splitting templar and such which differentiated him as one of the better toss...I can't help but feel mosquito bite emp radius just sending the wrong message of promoting the same old deathballs. Another thing is bio vs deathball... happy vs tod lol. Thankfully I believe HOTS will kind of fix this assuming tvp will hopefully turn into mech vs deathball.... so it will become more interesting by default as the quicker deathball maneuvers around the slower mech train. | ||
eourcs
United States459 Posts
On November 27 2011 00:54 razy wrote: PvZ is becoming great match up because players start to figure out with what they can get away in midgame (zergs aggressively expanding and forcing some response from toss who choose massive tech and harass). PvT will become fun as well once protoss will understand that they need faster third for that extra gas otherwise they'll continue struggling to fight 2 vs 2 base against bio-terrans while slowly expanding. Such kind of play favours terran a lot. PvT will become really boring once people realize that sitting on 3-4 bases with a deathball and accumulating money + gateways is the best way to play. Mana and Hasuobs have been doing this for the last 8-10 months, and they rarely lose PvT. But no, we're still gonna have idiots doing 2base allins and then complaining about balance once it stops working. | ||
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