EPTI will also add that they should nerf EMP range if they are to nerf any spell's range, but that's, again, stupid me.
Patch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 436
| Forum Index > Closed |
Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 | ||
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sihyunie
United States108 Posts
I will also add that they should nerf EMP range if they are to nerf any spell's range, but that's, again, stupid me. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On September 16 2011 17:05 Truedot wrote: + Show Spoiler + On September 16 2011 14:37 Piledriver wrote: LOL, stop right when its convenient for you. Hippocracy much? Colossus 300/200 3:2 mineral/gas ratio 6 66% Carrier 350/250 3.5:2.5 mineral/gas ratio 6 71% Dark Templar 125/125 1:1 ratio 2 100% High Templar 50/150 1:3 ratio 2 300% gas !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No other zerg unit even comes close to this Phoenix 150/100 3:2 ratio 2 66% Observer 25/75 1:3 ratio 1 300% !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sentry 50/100 1:2 ratio 2 200% TLDR; Stop making up meaningless, retarded numbers (which have very little bearing on game balance). If you insist on actually using irrelevant numbers, then atleast have the integrity to do the right thing and post entire information. Edit: If anything I would argue that higher tier zerg units should be costlier in terms of gas (more than what they currently cost), because their lower tier, core ranged unit (roaches ) are much cheaper in terms of gas when compared to Stalker, so they get a higher amount of leftover gas to spend on higher tier units. hypocracy yourself (and you spelled it wrong anyway, didn't know we were debating hippos ideologies). No it wasn't I played BW and you're wrong. Zerg units were the cheapest at all levels. I appreciate your effort, but a certain number of banelings will precisely equal 1 viking. a certain number of hydras will precisely equal a certain number of banelings. thats the basis and point of it. That if you build X amount of Y unit, you COULD HAVE bought W amount of Z unit. Unit worth depends on whether it counters whats on the field or not. A carrier doesn't have much worth with a bunch of vikings in the air. Your attempt to ascribe worth falls short when it gets countered. the other statistics never change with conditions in the game, so they are by and large the most effective means of understanding how much of something you have, which has limited how much of some other thing you can have. Hypocracy isn't a word either, genius | ||
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cbueno
Ireland76 Posts
Its the big gap between these two and Toss, thats large.... And yes, GSL is a living proof that Terran and Zerg are far far ahead of Toss You can also add the chart above to it | ||
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cilinder007
Slovenia7251 Posts
On September 16 2011 22:06 cbueno wrote: The biggest problem here is not zerg vs terran cos on win/loose ratio they are very close. They more or less compensate each other. Its the big gap between these two and Toss, thats large.... And yes, GSL is a living proof that Terran and Zerg are far far ahead of Toss and protoss is getting buffed and zerg and terran are getting nerfs, I dont see a problem ? | ||
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ceaRshaf
Romania4926 Posts
On September 16 2011 21:28 Senx wrote: Wrong with the community - yes i agree on that. Its because of Blizzards open approach to balance which has led to the community feeling entitiled to having an opinion on everything and that if they scream loud enough, their own race will get buffed or other races nerfed. In BW people realized that it was pointless to cry about balance since Blizzard had no community involvement and the only thing that could effect balance from the community was different maps. In Broodwar players were not complaining because it became a common knowledge in the community that if you complaint about the game you must not understand it. So, people were not stopped from whining because Blizzard did not listen to them, but because there wasn't a single aspect of their complaint that was known to be real broken in the community. So, since there is so much complaint in StarCraft II, with so many supporters for the complaints, something has to be wrong. If I alone come and say that probes are the weakest and need to be buffed all of the TeamLiquid community would not agree, so it would be obviously false, but if many, many people complaint about ghosts...well...you get it. | ||
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cbueno
Ireland76 Posts
On September 16 2011 22:11 cilinder007 wrote: and protoss is getting buffed and zerg and terran are getting nerfs, I dont see a problem ? The changes to the terran affect/directed towards matchup vs zerg, The only buff thats affects Terran is WarpPrism but its not enough. But this gets neutralized with 1 viking...just one cheap unit.... Immortals its a joke to terran, they get snipped too easy... The immortals is more of a vs zerg change... the point is still that the matchup between terran and toss is still gonna be a cake walk for terran althought without a doubt the gap between toss and zerg will get very narrow.... | ||
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Deadlyfish
Denmark1980 Posts
On September 16 2011 22:13 ceaRshaf wrote: In Broodwar players were not complaining because it became a common knowledge in the community that if you complaint about the game you must not understand it. So, people were not stopped from whining because Blizzard did not listen to them, but because there wasn't a single aspect of their complaint that was known to be real broken in the community. So, since there is so much complaint in StarCraft II, with so many supporters for the complaints, something has to be wrong. If I alone come and say that probes are the weakest and need to be buffed all of the TeamLiquid community would not agree, so it would be obviously false, but if many, many people complaint about ghosts...well...you get it. Many people complain because it's in their best interest. If you're protoss and someone is complaining about ghosts then you'll just agree, why not? It's just the WoW community that has transferred over and taken with them the mentality that the game is broken and they know how to fix it - by shouting loud enough. That's not saying that the game is perfectly balanced though, but it's the mentality of many people that when they lose it's because it's a broken game. | ||
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strength
United States493 Posts
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Senx
Sweden5901 Posts
On September 16 2011 22:13 ceaRshaf wrote: In Broodwar players were not complaining because it became a common knowledge in the community that if you complaint about the game you must not understand it. So, people were not stopped from whining because Blizzard did not listen to them, but because there wasn't a single aspect of their complaint that was known to be real broken in the community. So, since there is so much complaint in StarCraft II, with so many supporters for the complaints, something has to be wrong. If I alone come and say that probes are the weakest and need to be buffed all of the TeamLiquid community would not agree, so it would be obviously false, but if many, many people complaint about ghosts...well...you get it. No its because people now know blizzard are listening and that they want community feedback. This gives everyone and their dog a reason to voice their opinion as loud as possible. Experience and skill is not relevant, its all about quantity. If a bunch of diamond players complain about something Its clearly valid, right? Because of the amount of complaints. .. The complaints will never stop for this reason, regardless of how balanced the game is. If someone loses in SC:BW its because they're bad. If someone loses in SC2 its because the game is broken (opens up TL.net and comments in x patch thread) Thats just mentality the sc2 community has had ever since SC2 beta. | ||
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Raven068
United States90 Posts
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Crosswind
United States279 Posts
You will no longer be able to break a siege line as well with NP. Well-controlled colossi (same speed, 2 more range) will never get shot by infestors. Zerg is already probably one of the most positioning-reliant races - this makes them moreso. -Cross | ||
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HaXXspetten
Sweden15718 Posts
On September 16 2011 22:06 cbueno wrote: The biggest problem here is not zerg vs terran cos on win/loose ratio they are very close. They more or less compensate each other. Its the big gap between these two and Toss, thats large.... And yes, GSL is a living proof that Terran and Zerg are far far ahead of Toss You can also add the chart above to it On September 15 2011 05:01 HaXXspetten wrote: Just gotta ask, how come every single person I ever meet spells "lose" with two O's? -.- Felt like I had to point this out again -.- | ||
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cbueno
Ireland76 Posts
On September 16 2011 22:40 HaXXspetten wrote: Felt like I had to point this out again -.- while i admit my mistake, it should be "lose" the other guy is correct to spell it "loose". Now if we are going to point this out which is outside the topic, i am going to make you look bad too... "over doing" is not spelled "over-doing" and we can keep going in circles...a troll is always a troll! | ||
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Warzilla
Czech Republic311 Posts
On September 16 2011 23:03 cbueno wrote: while i admit my mistake, it should be "lose" the other guy is correct to spell it "loose". Now if we are going to point this out which is outside the topic, i am going to make you look bad too... "over doing" is not spelled "over-doing" and we can keep going in circles...a troll is always a troll! Lol he wasnt trolling you, he said that lots of people make this mistake - seriously youre more trolling than him, why dont you discuss the recent infestor NP range change instead of shitting around here.. And you do that alot i was looking around. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On September 16 2011 22:27 strength wrote: Reduced infestor is even worse imho. Tanks, and collos will be able to snipe the investor ALOT easier and maybe even immortals since they are gonna have 6 range. OH wells, better then not having it at all hehe Im Zerg, and I complained alot about the original "massive"-change... But how is range 7 worse than not being able to control them at all? I think the change is alright, very tough and maybe 7.5 or 8 range would be better, as it was already close to undoable to NP really well controlled colossi and I would give Infestors a range advantage over Thors, but I think this might play out OK. Infestors will still be playable imo, but you might want to transition into something else earlier, which is easier to do through the ultralisk change (oh god, how long did we wait for this?!) | ||
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Havefa1th
United States245 Posts
IMO there needs to be no more patches until HOTS. Let this game balance itself out... it's what happened to BW. People complain that toss is UP, they'll get their Bisus and Storks eventually and everything will even out. This game is just too young for this kind of shenanigans. | ||
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Ryder.
1117 Posts
On September 16 2011 23:03 cbueno wrote: while i admit my mistake, it should be "lose" the other guy is correct to spell it "loose". Now if we are going to point this out which is outside the topic, i am going to make you look bad too... "over doing" is not spelled "over-doing" and we can keep going in circles...a troll is always a troll! No actually the other guy spelt it wrong too... Lose; opposite of win, to be unsuccessful Loose; not tight fitting Surprising how many people get this wrong :p Anyway really looking forward to this patch, especially immortal and warp prism change; seen a lot of immortal usage on streams lately, it's funny how even just an impending buff can encourage the use of a unit. | ||
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cbueno
Ireland76 Posts
On September 16 2011 23:35 YosHGo wrote: Lol he wasnt trolling you, he said that lots of people make this mistake - seriously youre more trolling than him, why dont you discuss the recent infestor NP range change instead of shitting around here.. And you do that alot i was looking around. He changed topic so its unecesary. In my book this is a troll. Well as someone said above already, its a change that was required and most zerg even prefer this rather than the other...so i dont see whats wrong... So i dont see where i am "shitting" here.... My point as simple, the gap between zerg and terran is very small but terran vs toss is large,... So again i dont see myself "shitting" here... | ||
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razy
Russian Federation899 Posts
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iblink
Netherlands36 Posts
On September 16 2011 18:43 Drakeblitz wrote: This thread is the perfect answer to why SC2 will never be like BW. User was temp banned for this post. You are right, SC2 will never be like BW. It will be better than it. The problem is you are too elitist, too short-minded and too impatient to understand that. Not only you, but people that write articles about elephants and bw elitists as well. Years will pass, you will understand why. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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