EPT"Infestor’s Neural Parasite can no longer target Massive units", aka. "We've removed Neural Parasite".
Patch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 322
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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 | ||
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Aando
1304 Posts
"Infestor’s Neural Parasite can no longer target Massive units", aka. "We've removed Neural Parasite". | ||
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Cyrak
Canada536 Posts
On September 10 2011 00:56 immortlone wrote: either way, you dont think pros are gonna flip about this change? That is a completely different subject and something that I think is a lot more interesting and worth discussing. I am not sure what the reaction will be. My personal thoughts (high masters P) are that this change will do very little to impact PvZ as a whole. It will remove one strong strategy vs. P leaving many others that I personally think are stronger anyway like baneling drop play. I think that the pro reaction from the more reasonable crowd (read: not Idra/Destiny/etc.) will be that this is one of a few options to make Infestors less of an all purpose awesome unit, which is necessary. The main problem with Infestors lately has been that there is never a situation where they're not incredibly strong. Perhaps now there will be some situations where they are the wrong choice. Perhaps not though, fungal/it are still incredible. I simply don't know if this is the best way to deal with PvZ problems, I don't personally think so but I do believe that this change will go live. | ||
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jdsowa
405 Posts
1) removed the neural upgrade and made it standard out of the gate 2) allowed you to neural while burrowed 3) removed the 15 second time limit and made it permanent This would encourage players to try out more cute and pesky plays. For example: 1) easier to sneak around and NP opponent's harvesters to build structures 2) could burrow and NP opponent's army while they're standing around and force them to snipe their own unit if they don't have detection 3) threat of having a burrowed infestor NP your dropship before it unloads | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On September 10 2011 01:02 lorkac wrote: It's like they gave the Infestor Hunter Seeker Missile. A powerful but useless spell. I would like to see what HSM can be used for with the new speed buff, at least they out run Flying vikings now | ||
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slicknav
1409 Posts
On September 10 2011 01:04 Blasterion wrote: I would like to see what HSM can be used for with the new speed buff, at least they out run Flying vikings now The good thing about HSM is that not it can actually hit things. However I think that it most cases, using it during combat may require you to sacrifice the raven. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
On September 10 2011 01:06 slicknav wrote: The good thing about HSM is that not it can actually hit things. However I think that it most cases, using it during combat may require you to sacrifice the raven. Depends how many PDDs you throw down. | ||
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RedDragon571
United States633 Posts
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grobo
Japan6199 Posts
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ThirdDegree
United States329 Posts
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Rorschach
United States623 Posts
On September 10 2011 00:27 jdsowa wrote: Basically, in ZvP, if the collossi are allowed to live and get off attacks, the Z army will melt away quickly. Z has to take the collossi out of the fight quickly. They can either do this by NPing, or they can send in corruptors so that the P runs his collossi away. If this change goes live, we will be back to the pre-April 2011 state of the game, where we guess how many corruptors to build so that we don't have too many worthless units left over, should we win the engagement. Is this what Blizzard intended the match-up to be? I hope not. Since April zergs have figured out how good broods are so corruptors are not useless as people are claiming. Neural essentially removes the ONLY advantage toss has over zerg which is better higher tier units. Gateway units are trash against bio AND hydra/roach. Its gotten to the point where mass infestors can be the answer for all of zergs problems. They are nothing more than a bandaid to an overall broken design. Saying all zerg units suck stacked up against toss with only infestors evening the playing field is stupid. And the answer should be that the one crutch unit steals the other players units? Fucking stupid as fuck. By all means they should get rid of neural parasite and look at some of the other core problems with zerg. My personal opinion is the roach position in the tech tree should be traded with hyrdas ala BW hydras.... Everyone here complaining about the change are just shit players and only care about how it affects them in their own shitty league. When it comes to pro play infestors with neural has the potential to be very broken turning a 200 vs 200 army into a 230 vs 170 army There is a reason we have a supply cap in the game so things are fair). I find it hilarious that people keep stating the obvious "if this change goes through no one will ever get neural parasite". Well duh, I think blizzards intent of nerfing it is to stop it from being abused like it is... That being said I don't necessarily think neural parasite is in and of itself overpowered BUT when coupled with the infestors other spells it is simply too damn versatile for a caster....... Let the downvotes commence! | ||
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Sea_Food
Finland1612 Posts
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TangYiChen
Korea (South)195 Posts
On September 10 2011 01:08 grobo wrote: The ONLY units you would ever NP are massive, i'd rather save my energy for fungals than NPing immortals. There is absolutely zero reason for you to ever get NP now. I would probably never get NP now too, but you can do some cute NP plays on ghosts and HTs  Not that it would be necessarily worth getting NP for that | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On September 10 2011 01:06 slicknav wrote: The good thing about HSM is that not it can actually hit things. However I think that it most cases, using it during combat may require you to sacrifice the raven. well zoning is pretty good but for the mana cost. it's rather unscary considering that storm is more devastating (Splash loses damage from epicenter storm is 80 dmg in the entire radius) | ||
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izgodlee
Canada133 Posts
On September 10 2011 01:08 grobo wrote: The ONLY units you would ever NP are massive, i'd rather save my energy for fungals than NPing immortals. There is absolutely zero reason for you to ever get NP now. I threw up reading these posts, its the same thing as the kydarian change (omg HT will never be used ever never ever!). Nerual is still amazing against immortals if the toss has ANY stalkers in their army. | ||
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theaxis12
United States489 Posts
With the NP change the ultra's fury "ability" is completely useless, it sucked before but now it pretty much just says the ultra is a massive unit. God if it ever was an "ability" the NP resistance was the only thing that was interesting there, and obv only in ZvZ. Sorry to take the time to rant about the ultra, the build time is a much needed start. However, he just needs to straight up have more effect a larger range and area of damage. I see terran bio standing in-front of ultras grinding them down and i am like this is supposed to be our AoE unit? Zerg end game is reduced to BL infestor b/c he sucks so much, anytime he is used it is in the same mid game tempo style of denying extra bases of your opponent - not crushing their maxed crafted army. Come on blizz give us 2 usable tier 3 units - the other races have so many options. | ||
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Lonyo
United Kingdom3884 Posts
On September 10 2011 01:10 Rorschach wrote: Since April zergs have figured out how good broods are so corruptors are not useless as you claim, not even close. Neural essentially removes the ONLY advantage toss has which is better higher tier units. Gateway units are trash against bio AND hydra/roach. Its gotten to the point where mass infestors can be the answer for all of zergs problems. They are nothing more than a bandaid to an overall broken design. By all means they should get rid of neural parasite and look at some of the core problems with zerg. My personal opinion is the roach position in the tech tree should be traded with hyrdas ala BW hydras.... Agreed, infestors have become the go-to unit and are pretty much broken, but they need to fix the rest of zerg like you say if they are going to heavily nerf infestors. Terran and protoss have ways to deal with infestor NP (EMP eliminates the ability to NP, and feedback kills the infestor if it has enough energy for NP). It's just going to put zerg back to almost where they were before infestors became useful, since there are no core changes elsewhere, which is pretty stupid. | ||
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Sea_Food
Finland1612 Posts
On September 10 2011 01:11 Blasterion wrote: well zoning is pretty good but for the mana cost. it's rather unscary considering that storm is more devastating (Splash loses damage from epicenter storm is 80 dmg in the entire radius) Well ravens can fly, move faster, detect and they have PDD. Also they have more health. Imo after the patch ravens will be a harder to produce, more versatile version of high templar. | ||
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Deagle
Lithuania108 Posts
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rdj107
United States336 Posts
Specifically I'm talking about carriers/motherships and battlecruisers (bear with me). The massive ground units are an issue on their own, but their are units that work against them so I'll leave them out of this post. Currently zerg has a total of 5 units that can hit air; spores, queens, mutas, hydras, and corrupters. Spores and queens have obvious practicality issues so I'll ignore those: Mutas are a harass unit and a good one, but do not trade evenly with any unit that can hit them except stalkers/voids (?); this includes vikings and phoenixes, which honestly aren't that hard to get out along the techpaths of the high tier units mentioned. Due to this in a standard mix mutas are not a solution, as to have mutas be effective you need to invest in a lot of them which is going to cripple your ground army strength; this would only get worse if you tried infestor/muta/x due to high gas and (depending on x) supply cost. Hydras are the most viable solution to air heavy late game comps, but results have already shown that hydra heavy mixes are fragile at best and hard countered at worse. And it does need to be a heavy mix to guarantee that the hydras do anything at all; a light smattering of them honestly isn't going to do anything unless the air units specifically don't focus them. Finally corrupters...suck, which given that they are supposed to be what takes down the high tech air units is an issue. Very literally they suck huge amounts of supply for what they do, and are brought down by pretty much everything they aren't specifically supposed to counter. Voidrays, vikings, any air to ground, and indirectly even phoenixes work fine for just soaking shots while they slowly whittle down the corrupters trying to hunt down carriers that can retreat to extreme distances while still having interceptors fight. Also keep in mind that against battlecruisers, there's the danger of yamato instantly tipping the scales on corrupters trading cost effectively if the bc numbers are not constantly kept in line. Beyond unit specific issues, they all have the common weakness of needing to be in very large numbers in order to have any sort of effect. When people bring up having a proper unit composition that just isn't the way zerg works. Its strength is pumping out massed pure unit armies for the situation and when you keep units in reserve to develop a proper composition this strength falters or outright disappears. For how ineffective all of these units are making them in advance isn't feasible. Tl;dr: Neural parasite on certain units was gamebreaking, but without the threat of it against high tier air tech there will be little reason not to make them late game, bringing the issues zergs have dealing with air units into play harder than ever. | ||
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Oktyabr
Singapore2234 Posts
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