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Marradron
Netherlands1586 Posts
I'll pay for it if it pleases me. I never download games though. If it is not worth my money it is not worth me playing it. Movies on the other hand. When they're been on tv or some payview channel it is in my opinion up for grasbs. Anyone with a recording device could have taped it. I just happen to have one of those 'tapes'. | ||
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shikheh
136 Posts
On June 23 2011 21:14 Greentellon wrote: Not having enough money to buy the product, or if the product isn't available in your area, are the only justifications I can accept for doing pirate stuff. But honestly speaking, 95% of the pirates I have met do it because it's free (and they can drink their money or something similar). How can not having enough money a justification to commit a crime? It is maybe more understandable if it was like basic necessity such as water or food but..come on.. | ||
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HeIios
Sweden2523 Posts
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MadPretty
United States101 Posts
On June 23 2011 21:06 mdb wrote: What. Thats makes no sense. Piracy is not "when someone takes your car, but you still have the car, so you haven't lost anything" lol. Piracy is when you have 2 milions cars, and someone steals on of the cars, and he doesnt give you the money for it and you still have ~ 2 milions cars, but you lost the profit ot the stolen car. imo What he's trying to say is that if you pirate a game, you are not reducing the available copies of the game. It's not like he went into Wal-Mart or Gamestop and snatched a copy from the stock room. The giant argument is should approximate amount of pirated copies be considered loss? If someone was not going to buy the game anyway due to poor reviews or general disinterest or just lack of disposable funds, do you actually count this as profit loss? What if someone pirates a game with poor reviews, but ends up loving it? In this day and age of social media and one button ad sharing, it could be said that the pirate is helping certain games thrive. | ||
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Shinrae
United Kingdom95 Posts
On June 23 2011 20:58 StarcraftXTZM wrote: swear to never do this deed again it was just this once. Just like you said when you were a kid and mastrubated for the first time. I'll have you know it was the complete opposite. Must have bust one out about 5 times that day. Greatest discovery ever. Spoilered since it's quite large, but the image nicely sums up how I feel about piracy. + Show Spoiler + Edit: Apparently it doesn't fit right or something. So here's a link: http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/2136/piratek.png ![[image loading]](http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/2136/piratek.png) | ||
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TheFrankOne
United States667 Posts
On June 23 2011 21:12 Argoneus wrote: How about - You are selling games, someone who was going to buy the game steals it, uploads it. 5000 people play it, 3000 people from that 5000 don't follow the game release scene so they couldn't buy the game, because they didn't know about it. Then they visit torrents and download this fresh game. 1500 from these 3000 will really like the game and buy it, the rest doesn't like the game and they won't buy it, but since they don't follow releases, they wouldn't have bought it anyway. So, one guy "stole" your game, 2000 people pirated it (some of these could buy the game too, lets say 500), but 1500(+500) others bought it, which is kinda profitable. I love this world that supposedly exists where people regularly pirate and then legally buy a game. I would never do that and never have, it is a waste of money, I already have a copy of the game illegally, why would I need another one? I'd love to think that piracy doesn't hurt companies, but cmon, you people can't seriously believe that companies are better off without trying to stop piracy. | ||
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Marradron
Netherlands1586 Posts
On June 23 2011 21:16 shikheh wrote: How can not having enough money a justification to commit a crime? It is maybe more understandable if it was like basic necessity such as water or food but..come on.. What makes something a crime ? General consensus in my opninion. These days most people have at one point or another downloaded some music sonic at the least. Laws are nice, but if the general consensus is to ignore a law it has little value. | ||
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Deleted User 124618
1142 Posts
On June 23 2011 21:16 shikheh wrote: How can not having enough money a justification to commit a crime? It is maybe more understandable if it was like basic necessity such as water or food but..come on.. Software can be copied without any loss to the original copy. But doing so illegally means the original sellers don't get the money they would have gotten if the person had bought it. But if the person didn't have the money to buy the product in the first place, or he couldn't for some reason, then the seller didn't lose that profit either. This is such a nice excuse to tell but honestly it's very rare that you really couldn't afford it. I mean come on, almost every person out there wastes money on things. But as you can see, this applies to software only. | ||
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Shinrae
United Kingdom95 Posts
On June 23 2011 21:18 TheFrankOne wrote: I love this world that supposedly exists where people regularly pirate and then legally buy a game. I would never do that and never have, it is a waste of money, I already have a copy of the game illegally, why would I need another one? I'd love to think that piracy doesn't hurt companies, but cmon, you people can't seriously believe that companies are better off without trying to stop piracy. Only recently I went through steam and got myself legit copies of game's I'd pirated in the past and actually enjoyed. However rare it might be, we do exist. And just look at the feedback for Deus Ex: HR since the leaked build hit the torrent sites. Before the leak, this game was widely expected to be a fail and an insult to the original. I wasn't even going to get it. It looked horrible. I felt insulted. But I took a play through of this build, essentially just a demo. And my word, I, and many others really enjoyed it and re-added my pre-order. Why? Because they've made an amazing game and many people want to show support for developers who do so. If it hadnt been for pirating this early release, I would have covered my eyes, ears and screamed viral pretending the game didn't exist. | ||
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Slaytilost
Netherlands968 Posts
As wikipedia defines theft: In criminal law, theft is the illegal taking of another person's property without that person's freely-given consent. Software developers dont give you consent to download their products, thus its theft. Yes, they lose money because people download software, no not 100% of the people that downloaded it would have purchased the product, but there are people that would have. | ||
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shikheh
136 Posts
On June 23 2011 21:22 Shinrae wrote: Only recently I went through steam and got myself legit copies of game's I'd pirated in the past and actually enjoyed. However rare it might be, we do exist. I think the problem is that it is rare not whether such type of people exist or not. | ||
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BadWolf0
United States300 Posts
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BobbyT
United States48 Posts
Property as we legally define it is merely a bundle of rights over an object. These rights include: 1) Exclusion 2) Alienation (right to sell) 3) Possession 4) Right of use Stealing is defined as any action which deprives a property owner of at least one of their rights over the object. What confuses people in the case of piracy and stealing is that stealing, as we usually experience it, takes the right of possession or the right of use from the original owner. Piracy however, only takes the right of exclusion away from the owner. All other rights are maintained. This is still stealing however, since property rights over the object have been violated. On June 23 2011 21:00 Argoneus wrote: I don't like when people call piracy "stealing". Stealing is, when someone steals your car and its not there the next day. Piracy is, when someone takes your car, but you still have the car, so you haven't lost anything. If I was to pirate a game, chances are I wouldn't buy it anyway, so I don't think people lose profit because of that. Argoneus, you are confusing two separate things. As for your first example Stealing is indeed when someone takes your car. They are violating all four of your typical property rights over the object. But your second example is talking about "lost profits", which has nothing to do with stealing. Lost profits would be how much damage the theft did, but it has nothing to do with whether your property rights were violated. | ||
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shikheh
136 Posts
On June 23 2011 21:22 Slaytilost wrote: I really dont get why this should be discussed at all, but here we go. As wikipedia defines theft: Software developers dont give you consent to download their products, thus its theft. Yes, they lose money because people download software, no not 100% of the people that downloaded it would have purchased the product, but there are people that would have. I agree. It does not matter if torrent results in net profit or net loss. The problem is that you are using someone's intellectual property without paying or getting consent from the developers for the permission/access. Hence, torrent is a form of theft I would argue. | ||
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TheFrankOne
United States667 Posts
On June 23 2011 21:23 shikheh wrote: I think the problem is that it is rare not whether such type of people exist or not. Buying games through steam you enjoyed in the past is not as good for the developers financial statements and profit margins as buying them new. Unless 'the past' is a few months, not years as I assume. I have also done that, because I no longer had the pirated copy and it was like $5 for a new one, not $50. | ||
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Gunther
Germany139 Posts
On June 23 2011 21:18 TheFrankOne wrote: I love this world that supposedly exists where people regularly pirate and then legally buy a game. I would never do that and never have, it is a waste of money, I already have a copy of the game illegally, why would I need another one? I'd love to think that piracy doesn't hurt companies, but cmon, you people can't seriously believe that companies are better off without trying to stop piracy. Because often times the pirated version might have stability issues or not be able to be played online. I know I've bought games that I had pirated previously, mostly because I said to myself, I would have bought that game had it been impossible for me to get for free. Morally, I can sleep just fine pirating something I'd have no intention of buying, but if I buy something I would have bought without pirating I don't have that on my conscious. | ||
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Deleted User 124618
1142 Posts
How about creating a copy of someone else's property? If your real world property analog applies to software too, wouldn't making copies be legal, because I can craft my own copy of neighbors wooden chair? | ||
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Popss
Sweden176 Posts
People who say otherwise just have a bad consience about stealing. | ||
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MiyaviTeddy
Canada697 Posts
On June 23 2011 21:12 Qzy wrote: You would never download a car, right? Then we agree. omfg quote of the day | ||
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ShAsTa
Belgium2841 Posts
On June 23 2011 21:22 Slaytilost wrote: I really dont get why this should be discussed at all, but here we go. As wikipedia defines theft: Software developers dont give you consent to download their products, thus its theft. No. You are not "taking" it, you are making a copy. It is not theft. It's copyright infringement. Edit(just read BobbyT's post): (If theft really is defined in terms of those 4 rights) Isn't the right of exclusion only violated by the person who copied the original? When this person uploads it, he gives permission to download his copy. Other downloaders are not violating the original owner's right of exclusion. | ||
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