EPTWhy don't we lay claim to Ireland? Sure it's got a lot of Irish people there but it's pretty nearby so let's give it a(nother) shot.
The Falklands or las Malvinas? - Page 23
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philly5man
United Kingdom356 Posts
Why don't we lay claim to Ireland? Sure it's got a lot of Irish people there but it's pretty nearby so let's give it a(nother) shot. | ||
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On June 17 2012 06:13 DeepElemBlues wrote: Britain cared about the islands before oil exploration was done, so why do people keep talking about oil? Oh wait... because oil is the bogeyman. Number one straw to grasp if you want to disagree and express your knee-jerk antipathy, but don't really have a reason why. Must be oil! That's a weird line of reasoning. If it wasn't for natural resources this would be a non-issue. It would be something like Gibraltar: a low level nuisance for the countries involved completely ignored by everyone else. | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
On June 17 2012 06:54 philly5man wrote: Although I'm British I don't really care about the Falklands remaining British - but logically it seems that they are British, and that's that? Not in Argentinian waters and inhabited almost entirely by British people. Why don't we lay claim to Ireland? Sure it's got a lot of Irish people there but it's pretty nearby so let's give it a(nother) shot. Fair enough, let Ireland have a vote like the Falklands has had. See if they want to be part of England.. -_- This is going to sound incredibly callous but I've always felt the Falklands has just been a political punching bag for Argentinian politicians. I don't see the significance of the territorial claim at all except as political currency. Pretty good to say to the constituents "Oh yeah, well I took our islands back from them!". Hard to say they were incompetent if they challenged a great nation and won right? .. Okay, let's take my country for example. Guam is a unincorporated territory. They have continually voiced their intent to be part of the United States, although it is not incorporated like a State is. Now let's say tomorrow they wanted to join Micronesia. Vote, done. They can do what they like. If the Falkland Islands voted to become part of Argentina then I would have no objection. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On June 17 2012 07:49 Probe1 wrote: Fair enough, let Ireland have a vote like the Falklands has had. See if they want to be part of England.. -_- This is going to sound incredibly callous but I've always felt the Falklands has just been a political punching bag for Argentinian politicians. I don't see the significance of the territorial claim at all except as political currency. Pretty good to say to the constituents "Oh yeah, well I took our islands back from them!". Hard to say they were incompetent if they challenged a great nation and won right? .. Okay, let's take my country for example. Guam is a unincorporated territory. They have continually voiced their intent to be part of the United States, although it is not incorporated like a State is. Now let's say tomorrow they wanted to join Micronesia. Vote, done. They can do what they like. If the Falkland Islands voted to become part of Argentina then I would have no objection. I'm fairly certain philly was being sarcastic... | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
On June 17 2012 06:08 docvoc wrote: Most UK and Argentinians feel very strongly on the issue, as I'm sure you do Kwark, can you explain to us why? I understand the debate about is it ours, but why hasn't the debate just been stopped? I'm actually very confused, I know that GoTunk said that its common practice to look outward in south america cuz the inner politics isn't very good at all with the economic side being specifically corrupt, is that the main reason? The reason that I (as a brit) feel strongly about it is that 1982 is the most recent occasion of a foreign state invading and trying to occupy British land and British people. As an analogy for a American, I would say that the Falklands could be compared to Hawaii. If a foreign state invaded Hawaii I am sure that American citizens would want their military to defend it. | ||
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Zooper31
United States5711 Posts
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Scheme
United Kingdom210 Posts
I'm very surprised that the Argentinian president keeps bringing this up. With all the problems a government needs to deal with, this surely can't be priority. It feels like Fernández uses the Falklands like Bush used 911. | ||
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autosuggested
Ireland22 Posts
On June 17 2012 08:12 Zooper31 wrote: Why not just ask the people on the island who they want to belong to? I understand it might be British dominated vote because they have owned it for so long but thats simply how it is now. There's a referendum planned for early next year, not that the result will be hard to predict. | ||
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mostevil
United Kingdom611 Posts
On June 17 2012 07:49 Probe1 wrote: Fair enough, let Ireland have a vote like the Falklands has had. See if they want to be part of England.. -_- This is going to sound incredibly callous but I've always felt the Falklands has just been a political punching bag for Argentinian politicians. I don't see the significance of the territorial claim at all except as political currency. Pretty good to say to the constituents "Oh yeah, well I took our islands back from them!". Hard to say they were incompetent if they challenged a great nation and won right? .. Okay, let's take my country for example. Guam is a unincorporated territory. They have continually voiced their intent to be part of the United States, although it is not incorporated like a State is. Now let's say tomorrow they wanted to join Micronesia. Vote, done. They can do what they like. If the Falkland Islands voted to become part of Argentina then I would have no objection. Hmmm it seems pretty confusing that there's an argument here at all. Indeed the UK position is similar to the above. If the people vote to be part of Argentina (or any other nation) then they can be. You have an island that's been British for 200 years, thats never had a real Argentinian presence other than an invasion force in the 80's. It's a self governing population that almost unanimously wants to remain a british territory for protection. Do some people just not realise this or are people proposing forced ethnic cleansing? British imperialism is long dead but the UK governments not going to just abandon these people. If Argentina wants it that badly they should be making offers to the people not trying to get the UN to hand it to them... I suspect they'd have to offer a whole lot though given the history. | ||
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autosuggested
Ireland22 Posts
On June 17 2012 08:19 Scheme wrote: Is it something about the month of June that causes the Falkland issue to come out on TL? The anniversary of the end of the Falklands War, I guess. | ||
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Scheme
United Kingdom210 Posts
On June 17 2012 08:24 autosuggested wrote: The anniversary of the end of the Falklands War, I guess. ahhhh...That makes sense. I noticed that all posts were made in June. I knew that it started in April but hadn't realised it was this long. Cheers | ||
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coverpunch
United States2093 Posts
The volume is only a dull roar in the UK because they have bigger fish to fry. Between the European Economic Crisis, the Diamond Jubilee, and the Olympics, a minor war over some obscure islands in the south Atlantic is not exactly at the top of the list. And anyways, President Kirchner needs nationalism because her re-election is on the ropes. Prime Minister David Cameron is almost guaranteed to lose his job already, he's just hoping to not F up too much any more and go down in history as the worst PM since Neville Chamberlain. | ||
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autosuggested
Ireland22 Posts
On June 17 2012 06:54 philly5man wrote: Why don't we lay claim to Ireland? Sure it's got a lot of Irish people there but it's pretty nearby so let's give it a(nother) shot. Hey buddy, let sleeping dogs lie! Eight hundred years and all that.  | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
On June 17 2012 07:03 hypercube wrote: That's a weird line of reasoning. If it wasn't for natural resources this would be a non-issue. It would be something like Gibraltar: a low level nuisance for the countries involved completely ignored by everyone else. Ownership of the islands was not a non-issue or a low-level nuisance to either Argentina or Britain well before people started speculating that there might be oil underneath the sea floor surrounding the islands. Serious discussion about looking for oil there didn't even start until the 1990s and exploration just started taking place a few years ago. This materialistic deterministic view of international politics leaves much to be desired; it isn't comprehensive and it's importance is exaggerated and it misses the forest for the trees. It's a relic of Marxist theory - one of the few still given credence by anyone - where everything is explained by economic interests and pressures, or they are at least paramount. Oil is not the reason or even a reason Britain won't give them up and it isn't the reason Argentina wants them. | ||
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LagT_T
Argentina535 Posts
On June 17 2012 07:49 Probe1 wrote: Fair enough, let Ireland have a vote like the Falklands has had. See if they want to be part of England.. -_- This is going to sound incredibly callous but I've always felt the Falklands has just been a political punching bag for Argentinian politicians. I don't see the significance of the territorial claim at all except as political currency. Pretty good to say to the constituents "Oh yeah, well I took our islands back from them!". Hard to say they were incompetent if they challenged a great nation and won right? .. Okay, let's take my country for example. Guam is a unincorporated territory. They have continually voiced their intent to be part of the United States, although it is not incorporated like a State is. Now let's say tomorrow they wanted to join Micronesia. Vote, done. They can do what they like. If the Falkland Islands voted to become part of Argentina then I would have no objection. I'm from Argentina and I can confirm that the bolded part is so sadly true. I hope the islands stay under british goverment, their inhabitants seem to be happy that way. | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
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GarethGore
United Kingdom59 Posts
Me personally I don't care, as far as I'm concerned its whatever the islanders there what to do whether its remain british or turn to Argentinian. I've never met any Argentines to discuss this/people from the Island. I would think it would be slightly sad to give the Island back after having a war over it though. I think it only became a issue when the war happened and people were like but bro we fought a war over it! But as i said a vote for the islanders would be best in my view | ||
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Rassy
Netherlands2308 Posts
1-british 2-argentinian 3-independant. It would be kinda funny if the islands where so rich with oil that it would be like a 2nd kuweit and the people would vote independant. Nearly everyone in favor of letting the people vote would suddenly find it a terrible idea. @below: yes people might fear that but i guess they could be safe. If they realy got lot of oil they can just buy american protection like the gulf states. We have to asume that they wont be invaded, i wanted to give this example just to show people that manny only like the idea of voting, because they expect the vote to be favourable. | ||
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hzflank
United Kingdom2991 Posts
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