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On June 10 2011 07:57 Houkka wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 07:40 drlame wrote:
Steroids are illegal to use. This keyboard is not illegal, a function the keyboard has is illegal in some games when playing online. Very situational and different. You can't really compare it lol.
What? Steroids aren't illegal. They're used as medication for several diseases (even anabolic steroids, which you're probably talking about). However, it is illegal to use them for some other purposes, like increasing body mass for bodybuilding or weightlifting. This is like a famous bodybuilder in a Bayer Pharmaceuticals ad, telling people how steroids can be used to increase body mass. The product isn't illegal, but the spokesperson is teaching you how to use it for an illegal purpose.
Medical marijuana exists. Would you call that legal? They're both similar in that regard.
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i dont think he really thought it through. he was thinking this would make stuff easier for casual gamers and sell a product. i dont think he intended it for use in competition.
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On June 10 2011 08:39 Ruscour wrote:
Medical marijuana exists. Would you call that legal? They're both similar in that regard.
I would call medical marijuana legal, yes. But I think you're missing the point. He was arguing that the use of steroids and the use of keyboard macros cannot be compared, to which I am responding that they can indeed be compared. They both can be used in a way that is legal, and in a way that is illegal. What grubby is talking about in the video is using this keyboard in a way that's against the rules. And it would be questionable even if he was talking about using the function within the rules. He is a competitive progamer, it looks bad for him to promote a function in a keyboard that is not allowed in the game he plays competitively. Just like it would look bad for Arnold Schwarzenegger to advertise medical use of anabolic steroids, because of his earlier fame in bodybuilding, in which steroids are not allowed.
So as a short answer to your question, yes. Yes I would.
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This thread has gotten like 35 more pages than it should lol...what in gods name is going on...
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that was a real wierd vid lol
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United States431 Posts
On June 10 2011 08:09 Badfatpanda wrote:
I find it amusing that after 30 pages of discussion nobody brought up the fact that Blizzard keyboards themselves have macros... His sponsor wanted him to do it, hes contractually bound to do so, big deal as long as you don't use them yourself. Congrats now this thread can move on.
yea they did bring it up actually. A LOT. you are ridiculous.
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This thread is now about how terrible the video is.
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On June 10 2011 00:10 Whitewing wrote:
Grubby is just plugging his sponsor, nothing wrong with it. It's steelseries product, if you have an issue with this kind of advertisement, take it up with them.
this guy speaks the truth.
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Update from Grubby's Fanpage on Facebook. He replied to a post on his Wall concerning this issue: https://www.facebook.com/FollowGrubby
"Hey Manuel, the scene is quite confused right now about your promo of the SteelSeries Shift keyboard. I don't think this was intentionally but it would be awesome to hear your thoughts on this. The thread on TL does have already 34 pages. Just wanted to let you know in case you have not yet seen it. -> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=231856"
Grubby
"It being a StarCraft 2 branded keyboard, SteelSeries has checked with Blizzard before producing the Shift. It is not illegal of course."
Please stop throwing shit on him.
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United States431 Posts
also, i'm not sure how one gets detected and banned for macroing w/ a keyboard. is there third party software in use? and does it interact with the game like a hack would? the way blizzard banned people in WoW for things like automated mouse clicking and such wasn't w/ their warden software, because a program like mouse machine isn't a hack and doesn't interact directly w/ the game files (like a maphack would). blizzard would actually monitor people in WoW, often based on player reports, that were unresponsive outside of doing a few actions every few seconds. afaik gamemasters were often making judgment calls when they did or did not ban players for such behavior.
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On June 10 2011 09:34 ibogdandx wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 00:10 Whitewing wrote:
Grubby is just plugging his sponsor, nothing wrong with it. It's steelseries product, if you have an issue with this kind of advertisement, take it up with them. this guy speaks the truth.
I don't think anyone (should) be mad at Grubby for being forced into doing this, however It is kind of sad he didn't say this was wrong to steelseries,etc. and shame on steelseries in doing this.
Edit:
On June 10 2011 09:36 obsKura wrote:Update from Grubby's Fanpage on Facebook. He replied to a post on his Wall concerning this issue: https://www.facebook.com/FollowGrubby"Hey Manuel, the scene is quite confused right now about your promo of the SteelSeries Shift keyboard. I don't think this was intentionally but it would be awesome to hear your thoughts on this. The thread on TL does have already 34 pages. Just wanted to let you know in case you have not yet seen it. -> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=231856"Grubby "It being a StarCraft 2 branded keyboard, SteelSeries has checked with Blizzard before producing the Shift. It is not illegal of course." Please stop throwing shit on him.
And shame on Blizzard. How are tournaments going to be able to check that? I'm not happy with their stance.
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On June 10 2011 09:36 obsKura wrote:Update from Grubby's Fanpage on Facebook. He replied to a post on his Wall concerning this issue: https://www.facebook.com/FollowGrubby"Hey Manuel, the scene is quite confused right now about your promo of the SteelSeries Shift keyboard. I don't think this was intentionally but it would be awesome to hear your thoughts on this. The thread on TL does have already 34 pages. Just wanted to let you know in case you have not yet seen it. -> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=231856"Grubby "It being a StarCraft 2 branded keyboard, SteelSeries has checked with Blizzard before producing the Shift. It is not illegal of course." Please stop throwing shit on him.
Thx for this, maybe ppl will stop downing grubby doing what his sponsor requires. What's he supposed to do, decline his main sponsor?
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I think it is appropriate for Grubby to sponsor this keyboard because an pro-amateur using macros could be at best just as good as Grubby is at SC2, but not better. Macros may help you ameliorate your macro, or even your micro with some tweaking, but no third part software or hardware will help your decision making. It is ironic because Grubby has good mechanics now, but loses games constantly because of his awful decisions.
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On June 10 2011 08:15 AzurewinD wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 08:09 Badfatpanda wrote:
I find it amusing that after 30 pages of discussion nobody brought up the fact that Blizzard keyboards themselves have macros... His sponsor wanted him to do it, hes contractually bound to do so, big deal as long as you don't use them yourself. Congrats now this thread can move on. O' White Knight of White Knights. Ye hath rode to our rescue. Long shall we shower praises of sweet blissful harmony upon thy vaunted head for... ...Claiming to read 30 pages of discussion and missing each post in which several people have already submitted the same point you have, only to be disproven time and time again when someone points out Blizzard doesn't explicitly encourage you to use macro keys specifically for Starcraft 2 in the way Steelseries did in their advertisement. In fact, they have banned people in the past and continue to assert that any macro setup involving 1 key press being mapped to multiple actions is a bannable offense. I thank you for delivering us from the darkness. You are a true hero.
/sarcasm. sry I really only skimmed the first 10, but there is really no other implication for having macros on a Blizzard marketed SC2 product other than "hey we support this keyboard for this game". Oh whoops our TOS don't support macros...mixed messages ftw =D. So ya, Blizzard "explicitly encourage you to use macro..." to anyone who can put macros + keyboard for SC2 together. So no, even though there is not a public video advertisement of it, I am not disproven of anything. The people in this thread bashing Grubby for following the wishes of his sponsor should really direct their attention towards Steelseries instead if they must be angry at someone. All I was trying to say.
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On June 10 2011 06:53 IronMonocle wrote:
Using "macro functions" on a keyboard isn't cheating, and if it is against blizzard terms of use then the terms should be changed. Civil law works in a similar way as outdated or broken laws are constantly being changed removed or adapted.
It's Blizzard's game, they can make rules like this as much as they damn well please. This has nothing to do with law. By playing their game, you agree to their rules, period.
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On June 10 2011 09:36 obsKura wrote:Update from Grubby's Fanpage on Facebook. He replied to a post on his Wall concerning this issue: https://www.facebook.com/FollowGrubby"Hey Manuel, the scene is quite confused right now about your promo of the SteelSeries Shift keyboard. I don't think this was intentionally but it would be awesome to hear your thoughts on this. The thread on TL does have already 34 pages. Just wanted to let you know in case you have not yet seen it. -> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=231856"Grubby "It being a StarCraft 2 branded keyboard, SteelSeries has checked with Blizzard before producing the Shift. It is not illegal of course." Please stop throwing shit on him.
Of course the keyboard is legal. The macros they present in that video however are not.
I agree that Grubby isn't the main bad guy here, but Steelseries should have shit in plentyfull quantities thrown at them for this retarded guide that will get you banned if it's ever detected in any sort of online play. And all play besides the campaign is played online afaik.
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I know Grubby himself doesn't wish to promote cheating, he is just doing it to be paid. But isnt this analogous to a high profile sporting figure endorsing the use of steroids/illegal supplements? How is it not the same?
Edit: sorry if it's been mentioned, I'm not about to look through 40 pages to confirm.
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On June 10 2011 09:36 obsKura wrote:Update from Grubby's Fanpage on Facebook. He replied to a post on his Wall concerning this issue: https://www.facebook.com/FollowGrubby"Hey Manuel, the scene is quite confused right now about your promo of the SteelSeries Shift keyboard. I don't think this was intentionally but it would be awesome to hear your thoughts on this. The thread on TL does have already 34 pages. Just wanted to let you know in case you have not yet seen it. -> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=231856"Grubby "It being a StarCraft 2 branded keyboard, SteelSeries has checked with Blizzard before producing the Shift. It is not illegal of course." Please stop throwing shit on him.
We all agree that the keyboard is legal within the first 5 pages of this thread. However, the vid on Youtube is actually more about telling people about how awesome macros are, that is what makes it kind of disgusting.
Grubby is not to blame here, but he needs to react to this a little bit more cautious than he does now.
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On June 10 2011 10:38 Ryder. wrote:
I know Grubby himself doesn't wish to promote cheating, he is just doing it to be paid. But isnt this analogous to a high profile sporting figure endorsing the use of steroids/illegal supplements? How is it not the same?
Edit: sorry if it's been mentioned, I'm not about to look through 40 pages to confirm.
It's somewhere between that and a swimmer advertising a swimsuit that isn't allowed in official competitions.
First off, Steroids have a direct effect on your health and should never be taken if your doctor didn't proscribe it. So that's not really a fair comparision.
Secondly, no one knows if Grubby knows that this isn't allowed on ladder. Just look in this thread, there are a lot of people that didn't knew and even a few who still don't believe it.
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Are people mainly upset about the fact that they are presenting the fact that it is possible? or the fact it exists?
Almost every logitech/razer/steelseries keyboard has programmable macro keys etc, just kind of confused, I beleive it was Jinro and maybe TLO who when they got sponsored by Razer said they use the Blackwidow, the Blackwidow is also capable of binding macros that produce more than one action per press, so does this make them bad guys too?
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EPT
