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On May 02 2011 14:17 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 14:12 hmunkey wrote:
EDIT: And why Jinro/Tyler want to get in public arguments with other pros is beyond me. You guys can easily contact them in a private way and get the same information across. All I know is I've lost a lot of respect for certain people today and I'd bet the same applies to many others. Obviously, their reason for arguing in public is to try to convince EG for their next team league or other tournament organizers for future leagues. I don't think anyone expects EG to change the format or invites at this point.
Wouldn't you guys normally say like "make a new thread in the community forum for people to talk about it"?
This is an announcement thread and the last ~10 pages are people arguing o.-
Plus Tyler can talk about it on SOTG tomorrow, where IdrA is going to try to pull 20k people xD
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On May 02 2011 14:18 Cambam wrote:
I may not understand the situation completely, but the EG arguments sound similar to:
America has only 12% african americans, so why should we inconvenience the VAST MAJORITY of white people by accommodating the blacks?
yeah, you don't understand the situation. and turning this already hostile topic into a race war is not encouraging.
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On May 02 2011 14:08 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 14:02 Skipton wrote:On May 02 2011 13:59 hmunkey wrote:
There's a lot of bitching in this thread and it's pretty depressing. EG gets to pick how the tourney is set up. If Liquid doesn't like it, they don't have to play. It's pretty simple.
It doesn't matter what anyone thinks; EG is ponying up the cash so they make the rules. Get the fuck over it. And you are posting on the TEAM LIQUID FORUM. If individuals feel like expressing their discontent over something in relation to the tournament in the thread meant to discuss it, than they will express it. EG picks how the tourney is set up, in that regard you are absolutely correct. Everybody else on the internet decides how to respond to it, I'd like to state that just because this site is called "Team Liquid" it doesn't mean we don't have standards for fairness and impartiality. We put this in news, and we will cover / calendar / treat this tournament as any other major tournament regardless of whether Liquid is in it. Whether I believe either side is right in this instance doesn't change how we should treat this discussion on our site. "It's TeamLiquid's forum" should never be used to support unjustified criticism. The best result that can come of this discussion is that 1) people forget about this issue and enjoy that we have another $10,000 league, and 2) EG considers doing server switching for their next league.
The best result is not probable. In every single LR thread for this event comments complaining about team selection and 2v2 format will arise. It seems like you're trying to hold everybody up to TSL standards as well, and regardless of my belief that more tournaments should strive for TSL standards, I see many falling short.
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Two things I wanted to reinforce:
1 - The switching servers (shutdown client and reopen) and Hotkey rearranging is a problem, Hotkeys more than servers, and not being used to lag > than anything;
2 - Why the hell are Tyler and Jinro trying to dictate how EG spends their sponsor money?
And a bit of a personal note, I don't think Liquid was going to bring better games than other teams at this moment. There are teams that are better IMO, and it would make sense to accommodate Liquid if they were irreplaceable, since they are not, it is not as convenient.
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It seems rather childish to complain about a tournament being unwilling to "accomodate" a single team, when such accomodation would inconvenience the rest
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On May 02 2011 14:20 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 14:18 Cambam wrote:
I may not understand the situation completely, but the EG arguments sound similar to:
America has only 12% african americans, so why should we inconvenience the VAST MAJORITY of white people by accommodating the blacks? yeah, you don't understand the situation. and turning this already hostile topic into a race war is not encouraging.
Fair enough. Just wanted to make sure that that wasn't EG's argument.
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Braavos36402 Posts
On May 02 2011 14:21 Skipton wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 14:08 Hot_Bid wrote:On May 02 2011 14:02 Skipton wrote:On May 02 2011 13:59 hmunkey wrote:
There's a lot of bitching in this thread and it's pretty depressing. EG gets to pick how the tourney is set up. If Liquid doesn't like it, they don't have to play. It's pretty simple.
It doesn't matter what anyone thinks; EG is ponying up the cash so they make the rules. Get the fuck over it. And you are posting on the TEAM LIQUID FORUM. If individuals feel like expressing their discontent over something in relation to the tournament in the thread meant to discuss it, than they will express it. EG picks how the tourney is set up, in that regard you are absolutely correct. Everybody else on the internet decides how to respond to it, I'd like to state that just because this site is called "Team Liquid" it doesn't mean we don't have standards for fairness and impartiality. We put this in news, and we will cover / calendar / treat this tournament as any other major tournament regardless of whether Liquid is in it. Whether I believe either side is right in this instance doesn't change how we should treat this discussion on our site. "It's TeamLiquid's forum" should never be used to support unjustified criticism. The best result that can come of this discussion is that 1) people forget about this issue and enjoy that we have another $10,000 league, and 2) EG considers doing server switching for their next league. The best result is not probable. In every single LR thread for this event comments complaining about team selection and 2v2 format will arise. It seems like you're trying to hold everybody up to TSL standards as well, and regardless of my belief that more tournaments should strive for TSL standards, I see many falling short.
I think we should hold the biggest international team leagues to the highest standard. Currently, the GCPL and this new league have the biggest prize pools and most prestige, so it's really not that weird to want what you believe to be the fairest/best standards in such a tournament. I hope they consider changing it for next time.
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Iraq1230 Posts
me and ret would destroy 2v2. it seems very strange that the people behind this team league keep talking about the players in kr. we are only 3 so thats not the major problem. the problem is that NA is starting to become the place to play at when it comes to leagues. thats just not the right move especially when most us players have moved to the eu server anyway.
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Braavos36402 Posts
On May 02 2011 14:09 NightAngel wrote:
You mean Team Liquid will not have another avenue to display it's rapid decline in performance? Too bad.
On May 02 2011 14:18 NightAngel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 11:43 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
... I hope more players can find themselves in a position to demand the highest standards rather than saying yes to everything that meets their lowest standards. I should demand that you not be in any future tournaments, then.
I'll give you one, two is not a coincidence.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51706 Posts
On May 02 2011 14:18 NightAngel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 11:43 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
... I hope more players can find themselves in a position to demand the highest standards rather than saying yes to everything that meets their lowest standards. I should demand that you not be in any future tournaments, then.
I should demand that you don't post then.
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On May 02 2011 14:21 Jotoco wrote:
Two things I wanted to reinforce:
1 - The switching servers (shutdown client and reopen) and Hotkey rearranging is a problem, Hotkeys more than servers, and not being used to lag > than anything;
2 - Why the hell are Tyler and Jinro trying to dictate how EG spends their sponsor money?
And a bit of a personal note, I don't think Liquid was going to bring better games than other teams at this moment. There are teams that are better IMO, and it would make sense to accommodate Liquid if they were irreplaceable, since they are not, it is not as convenient.
They aren't.. and if you think they are you need to go back and reread their posts. They made a reasonable request for them, and EG made a reasonable decision for them.
If anything EG is hurt most by this.
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lol @ the idea that switching servers between games is somehow fair. Anyone whose ever played a game at a high level should know that having the same latency every game is more important than having a lower latency.
This whole bs argument makes me miss broodwar where both players in a 1v1 game had the same latency since the connection was between them instead of hosted on the server.
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Russian Federation949 Posts
Honestly- this controversy is awesome. Because right now every sc2 pro seems like a nice guy and we are just looking at bunch of friends playing. Cant until some rivalry's develop and we start having grudges and open challenges. Much better for spectators
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On May 02 2011 14:23 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 14:09 NightAngel wrote:
You mean Team Liquid will not have another avenue to display it's rapid decline in performance? Too bad. Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 14:18 NightAngel wrote:On May 02 2011 11:43 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
... I hope more players can find themselves in a position to demand the highest standards rather than saying yes to everything that meets their lowest standards. I should demand that you not be in any future tournaments, then. I'll give you one, two is not a coincidence.
Thanks. I was sort of concerned about him.
Regardless of the controversy, this is definitely going to be an excellent tournament and I'm looking forward to seeing the games. Hopefully Liquid can make the next one. I can't think of much else that needs to be said.
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It seems like people are getting quite worked up about this. Probably much more so than the EG and Liquid guys did during the decision. I imagine that it was just offer the invitation, ask for alternate servers, respectfully decline and respectfully decline. The tournament will still be great, EG will still be great and Liquid will still be great.
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Ahh, I would have liked to see FXO and Liquid over sixjax and MYM. Im excited for this though!
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On May 02 2011 14:17 ExquisiteRed wrote:
I think drewbie has the right idea
I can't decipher the first half of his post at all. o.O
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On May 02 2011 14:18 Cambam wrote:
I may not understand the situation completely, but the EG arguments sound similar to:
America has only 12% african americans, so why should we inconvenience the VAST MAJORITY of white people by accommodating the blacks?
Apples and oranges much? Come on now...
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I don't really think there is a "fair" way for NA/EU/KR to all play each other in an online tournament without potentially compromising the quality of the competition. I definitely understand EG's decision here though its unfortunate TL isn't in. Haypro if you and Ret played 2s vs NA players what server would it be played on? 
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51706 Posts
the entire liquid team is spread over 3 server its not fair to the opposing teams to accommodate latency change to their play.
I'd also like to say that since liquid is not playing MYM will destroy all.Mondragon FTW!!!
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EPT
