I most often always have a problem killing a zerg if it gets to late game. My main strat is to either 4 gate or early voids to break their 2nd. I have had great late games where harass would eventually outweigh the z's macro, but on infrequent occasions. But recently a lot of z's are getting mass queens and several spines. This nearly defeats all early aggretion from protoss. I am a upper diamond player and i used to win most PvZ's with a timed 2 void push. After Day9's mass queen vid i now find it very hard to break zerg early game. I know one solution is to not push em early, but does anyone know any counter to this mass queen defense?

TheBrofessor

Canada429 Posts

April 21 2011 01:33 GMT

This should probably be in the strategy section, but if you notice a Zerg relying heavily on queens and spine crawlers early game, abuse the fact that they really cant attack you for a while. Macro up heavily and just go for a standard unit composition.

Haplo_33

Sweden383 Posts

April 21 2011 01:34 GMT

Anything that isn't air, that is on the ground will counter mass queens, save probes.

imbs

United Kingdom320 Posts

April 21 2011 01:34 GMT

On April 21 2011 10:24 Mezumay wrote:
I most often always have a problem killing a zerg if it gets to late game. My main strat is to either 4 gate or early voids to break their 2nd.

is that you, cruncher?

User was banned for this post.

Almin

United States583 Posts

April 21 2011 01:34 GMT

1) Research Blink
2) Blink in their main
3) Autowin.

Coming from a masters zerg.

iCCup.Nove

United States260 Posts

April 21 2011 01:35 GMT

Mass queen builds get late gas, just expo and you'll be fine. Don't try to push any one base play.

1Eris1

United States5797 Posts

April 21 2011 01:35 GMT

The first problem is that you say you do a 4 gate or some kind of stargate rush to deny their 2nd. If this fails, you will be extremely far behind on economy, and they can probably transition into mass queens or mass corrupters for all they care and win

Tatari

United States1179 Posts

April 21 2011 01:39 GMT

Macro up for one of two deathballs (void ray/colossus, mass blink stalker/colossus), get to 200/200, enjoy a-moved win.

Ignore the a-moved win part, it still requires micro >_>.

And that seems like a somewhat cheesy opening. 2 void push? If you know they're massing spines and queens, that's an indicator that you should aim for a macro game.

dondo

United States53 Posts

April 21 2011 01:43 GMT

Im quite surprised that the same strat that is hard for u to deal with has made my games against Z so much easier and it sounds as if we are around the same level rank wise. mass queens weakens early agression but it allows for a really easy 3rd assuming u have map awareness (where his queens are) and also make sure to snipe creep tumors. The idea behind mass queens is that it is usually meant as a way to take out early aggression whilst still able to allocate larva to drones. A great way to exploit there allocation of minerals to queens/drones. Thus if u macro and get ur nat running there shouldnt be a need for early game harass. However the only way to find out if they are going for the mass queens is to scout probably best with hallucinated phenix. Upon finding out that mass queens is what your up against u should just kill creep tumors and take a 3rd. The reasoning behind the 3rd is that unless the creep is very well spread the zerg army lacks alot of moblilty. If the zerg uses the queens for the late game purpose and that is the problem HTs using feedback would be my recommendation most of the time it ends up 1 hitting them. I hope this helps.

rbx270j

Canada540 Posts

April 21 2011 01:45 GMT

#10

you can still warp in feedbacks, ya know. Having a few Templar in your army can really cut down on the available transfuses, and as long as you can get within range, Archons can really put the hurt on because Queens can't do much to pure ground forces in terms of dps.

DroneAllDay

United States140 Posts

April 21 2011 01:55 GMT

#11

I can see by your low post count that you are fairly new to the forums (ha-ha ironic, seeing how this is my first post) Anyways, first of all, you should probably first of all spice up your post with more information and most importantly, replays of you losing to this unit composition. However I would more strongly suggest to instead visit this different forum page that I have a link further on to, something also tells me that this is more of Spanishiwa's no gas ZvX that has become more popular lately but in either case here is a link to another post of a discussion of how to possibly beat such an early game(and the usual mid/late game compositions resulted from such an opener) that is used in the The Ice Fisher Build But if I were to assume that your mechanics were not the actual reason of your loss instead of the lack of knowledge on such a composition I would personally suggest that once a build in the early game is scouted seeing how such a composition, although strong is also incredibly immobile and thus proper response would be taking a fast 3rd base, as it is near impossible to do any sort of punishment with slow-lings which is the most mobile unit that zergs will have for a long time with this build.

Dali.

New Zealand689 Posts

April 21 2011 01:55 GMT

#12

If you see this gasless build you can simply expand with safety. The zergs army has no aggressive potential whatsoever in the early to mid game period. Spines, queens and slow lings will do no harm to you. Just macro up and play for the long game.

If I see a protoss going forge first, but throwing up 5 cannons, there's no way im going to try and break that. The same logic should apply to zerg. If they've invested heavily in defense, simply macro like crazy while scouting to see when he transitions into aggression.

ducis

Canada96 Posts

April 21 2011 01:57 GMT

#13

Queens are really hard to reinforce, so just keep pouding them with the ground unit of your choice

Mezumay

United States14 Posts

April 21 2011 02:04 GMT

#14

Wow, very good feedback. My main problem with the strats given is it is hard to scout zerg after they get their first couple pairs of lings out. So, I dont know if their going a normal ling/roach build or the mass queen/drone build. i liked my 1 base aggression build that would follow with a second, but relying on hallucination would void that. That said I think that means I cant be aggressive before my 2nd.

Mezumay

United States14 Posts

April 21 2011 02:06 GMT

#15

On April 21 2011 10:34 imbs wrote:

Show nested quote +

is that you, cruncher?

lol, i was watching a cruncher video when this topic came to mind.

Turgid

United States1623 Posts

April 21 2011 02:09 GMT

#16

On April 21 2011 11:04 Mezumay wrote:
Wow, very good feedback. My main problem with the strats given is it is hard to scout zerg after they get their first couple pairs of lings out. So, I dont know if their going a normal ling/roach build or the mass queen/drone build. i liked my 1 base aggression build that would follow with a second, but relying on hallucination would void that. That said I think that means I cant be aggressive before my 2nd.

Zerg is usually pretty easy to scout IMO. Aside from observers and hallucinated/real phoenixes, you can always just poke around with a probe and try to get a glimpse of their unit composition. Unless you're playing against very good players they'll probably just show their roaches or their blind spine crawlers or their lings and you know accordingly what kind of a midgame they want.

tree.hugger

Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts

April 21 2011 02:09 GMT

#17

Queens are excellent on early game defense, and completely and totally impotent on offensive. Take a third and tech. When the zerg ramps up production you'll be more than prepared. In fact, you'll have at least four colossi.

Learn to play late game. You can't force agression on a zerg who is focusing heavily on defense. If you have problems scouting, research hallucination after warpgates and hallucinate a phoenix every minute or so. You'll know when to start making gateway units if you are diligent about this.

Mezumay

United States14 Posts

April 21 2011 02:15 GMT

#18

On April 21 2011 11:09 tree.hugger wrote:
Queens are excellent on early game defense, and completely and totally impotent on offensive. Take a third and tech. When the zerg ramps up production you'll be more than prepared. In fact, you'll have at least four colossi.

Learn to play late game. If you have problems scouting, research hallucination after warpgates and hallucinate a phoenix every minute or so.

Everyone keeps telling me to take a third when i havent figured out how to pressure when building my 2nd. Give up pressure? Or change my aggression altogether?

WarChimp

Australia943 Posts

April 21 2011 02:18 GMT

#19

I don't even understand how mass queens is a viable strategy at all.... They are slow, they don't do a whole lot of damage, and they can't get a nice concave on your troops. The only thing that is mildly decent about them is transfuse. But anything other then that I don't see how its possible to lose to that?

Guess just do your usual unit composition. Zealots, Stalkers, Colossus. Just macro, more Warp Gates :D

hmunkey

United Kingdom1973 Posts

April 21 2011 02:25 GMT

#20

What? Unless you 4 gate, in which case you don't really need to scout, you should be getting a robo. Zerg basically has no way to deny scouting by observers. Hell, you can even run a stalker in their base sometimes.

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