On April 16 2011 06:59 RawVeganYes wrote: Since most people wont read this entire thread let alone the page before this one I will post the video again. If you think humans are designed to eat meat watch the 27-35 mintue mark of the video i believe. Humans have ZERO meat eater traits There is nothing to debate on this. Humans are born plant eaters and aquire the TASTE of meat.
Here are some main points from the video on this for those "too busy to watch"
Humans have flat teath
Humans have the large intestines the length of a plant eater-NOT designed to eat meat. Real meater eaters can't get clogged arteries. The number 1 cause of human meat eaters is heart disease.
Humans jaw moves side to side-unlike a meat eater Humans do not have claws unlike the carnivore and omnivore Humans sweat through our pores to cool ourselfs-unlike panting meat eaters Humans have digestive enzymes in our saliva which only plant eaters have
The french article is silly. Anyone can neglect their kids. And regarding former vegans, the ones previously posted who have written books. A few former vegans have had poorly planned diets and gotten pissy and wrote a book. Ok.
A poorly planned diet of ANY kind will be a problem. Why this is hard for people to understand I will not know.
What about the millions of cases of meat eating familes neglecting their kids by feeding them like a pig with a troft making them massively obese????? and putting them on the path to future health problems.
Just saying.
Yeah, as a medical doctor I'm going to say that you are absolutely 100% wrong.. Starting with your first point:
Take a fucking look at your own canines, are they flat? If you answer this question with yes, then you are indeed a mutant and have probably also developed an extra stomach, entered a symbiotic state and are thus able to break down cellulose like other plant eating animals...
I'm not even going to bother with refuting the rest, it's a genuine waste of time as it is just as easily contradicted and if you actually thought about it you would realise how little sense it makes...
I don't care what you eat, I'm not here to turn you or anything - I'm here to stop the MASSIVE amount of misinformation that is being posted on both sides... And this was one of the worst posts in the entire thread....
Herbivores have canines as well. Having canines does not make you a carnivore. I don't know about you, but the tops of my canines are indeed flat. Not very effective at tearing or cutting meat.
Hi all! Great discussion that's taking place here. I do have some things that I would like to add in a, hopefully, non-offensive manner:
What would happen if, overnight, the entire Human population turned vegetarian? This is certainly an extreme idea, but regardless, what would happen to Earth's ecosystem? Would the Earth be able to support the necessary cropland that is required of this?
In addition to this, I propose the following question: If killing animals for consumption is wrong, what about the killing of other organisms for the production of crops (deforestation, pesticides, etc.)? Is one okay, but the other not?
These are things that I have thought about for years and would value your opinions that are based on scientific inquiry (i.e., it is detrimental to fling about unsupported thoughts).
On April 12 2011 03:36 sylverfyre wrote: I'm not a vegetarian, but my girlfriend (with whom I live) is. Gonna agree that pre-prepared vegetarian food is generally pretty meh (even she won't touch a boca burger with a 10 foot pole, for example.) but you can do some really amazing things with fresh produce and some time to cook. I've added a lot of vegetarian recipes to my list of things I can cook (Spinach Lasagna, a bunch of awesome things involving zucchini and broccoli, etc.)
Man that sounds good. Do you reckon you could add that spinach lasagne recipe?
On April 16 2011 06:59 RawVeganYes wrote: Since most people wont read this entire thread let alone the page before this one I will post the video again. If you think humans are designed to eat meat watch the 27-35 mintue mark of the video i believe. Humans have ZERO meat eater traits There is nothing to debate on this. Humans are born plant eaters and aquire the TASTE of meat.
Here are some main points from the video on this for those "too busy to watch"
Humans have flat teath
Humans have the large intestines the length of a plant eater-NOT designed to eat meat. Real meater eaters can't get clogged arteries. The number 1 cause of human meat eaters is heart disease.
Humans jaw moves side to side-unlike a meat eater Humans do not have claws unlike the carnivore and omnivore Humans sweat through our pores to cool ourselfs-unlike panting meat eaters Humans have digestive enzymes in our saliva which only plant eaters have
The french article is silly. Anyone can neglect their kids. And regarding former vegans, the ones previously posted who have written books. A few former vegans have had poorly planned diets and gotten pissy and wrote a book. Ok.
A poorly planned diet of ANY kind will be a problem. Why this is hard for people to understand I will not know.
What about the millions of cases of meat eating familes neglecting their kids by feeding them like a pig with a troft making them massively obese????? and putting them on the path to future health problems.
Yeah, as a medical doctor I'm going to say that you are absolutely 100% wrong.. Starting with your first point:
Take a fucking look at your own canines, are they flat? If you answer this question with yes, then you are indeed a mutant and have probably also developed an extra stomach, entered a symbiotic state and are thus able to break down cellulose like other plant eating animals...
I'm not even going to bother with refuting the rest, it's a genuine waste of time as it is just as easily contradicted and if you actually thought about it you would realise how little sense it makes...
I don't care what you eat, I'm not here to turn you or anything - I'm here to stop the MASSIVE amount of misinformation that is being posted on both sides... And this was one of the worst posts in the entire thread....
Clearly you missed human anat. or phys. in your "medical" training. Plant eater's have the type of "k9"s we have.....If people would take some time out of their lives to watch the video 99% of this silly meat eater logic would not be gone from this thread.
On April 16 2011 10:41 Davey wrote: Hi all! Great discussion that's taking place here. I do have some things that I would like to add in a, hopefully, non-offensive manner:
What would happen if, overnight, the entire Human population turned vegetarian? This is certainly an extreme idea, but regardless, what would happen to Earth's ecosystem? Would the Earth be able to support the necessary cropland that is required of this?
In addition to this, I propose the following question: If killing animals for consumption is wrong, what about the killing of other organisms for the production of crops (deforestation, pesticides, etc.)? Is one okay, but the other not?
These are things that I have thought about for years and would value your opinions that are based on scientific inquiry (i.e., it is detrimental to fling about unsupported thoughts).
Most of deforisation is do to the factory farming of the meat and dairy industy. The land and resources used for plant food requires a great deal less than for meat. For example the resources on 1 acre of land can barley support 1 cow. However with the same resouces on 1 acre of land you can grow 80,000 pounds of potatos.
It's fairly common sense. We feed the majority of the earths main crops (soy, grains, water, corn etc) to factory farmed animals....and then the humans eat the animals. It is a matter of cutting out the "middle man" we do not need to eat animals. We can eat the plant resorces ourselves.
I'm not going to go did up links and references. The info is out there, alot of it even provided by the meat industry, usda etc. But the "middle man" logic should be common sense. If not I think human kind is doomed. We dont need to factory farm animals to eat them. Lets just eat the resources ourselves people! It's better for them and the earth and our future great grand kids....thats if you want them to have a nice place to live.
Someone asked about what foods to combine to get proper protein and amino acids. Generally you combine the legumes group with nuts and seeds for a complete protein source. Or you can take something like "Sunwarrior" raw protein powder for a complete amino acid profile if you live a busy life or are competing in sports etc.
On April 16 2011 06:59 RawVeganYes wrote: Since most people wont read this entire thread let alone the page before this one I will post the video again. If you think humans are designed to eat meat watch the 27-35 mintue mark of the video i believe. Humans have ZERO meat eater traits There is nothing to debate on this. Humans are born plant eaters and aquire the TASTE of meat.
Here are some main points from the video on this for those "too busy to watch"
Humans have flat teath
Humans have the large intestines the length of a plant eater-NOT designed to eat meat. Real meater eaters can't get clogged arteries. The number 1 cause of human meat eaters is heart disease.
Humans jaw moves side to side-unlike a meat eater Humans do not have claws unlike the carnivore and omnivore Humans sweat through our pores to cool ourselfs-unlike panting meat eaters Humans have digestive enzymes in our saliva which only plant eaters have
The french article is silly. Anyone can neglect their kids. And regarding former vegans, the ones previously posted who have written books. A few former vegans have had poorly planned diets and gotten pissy and wrote a book. Ok.
A poorly planned diet of ANY kind will be a problem. Why this is hard for people to understand I will not know.
What about the millions of cases of meat eating familes neglecting their kids by feeding them like a pig with a troft making them massively obese????? and putting them on the path to future health problems.
Yeah, as a medical doctor I'm going to say that you are absolutely 100% wrong.. Starting with your first point:
Take a fucking look at your own canines, are they flat? If you answer this question with yes, then you are indeed a mutant and have probably also developed an extra stomach, entered a symbiotic state and are thus able to break down cellulose like other plant eating animals...
I'm not even going to bother with refuting the rest, it's a genuine waste of time as it is just as easily contradicted and if you actually thought about it you would realise how little sense it makes...
I don't care what you eat, I'm not here to turn you or anything - I'm here to stop the MASSIVE amount of misinformation that is being posted on both sides... And this was one of the worst posts in the entire thread....
Dude before your big scientific rebuttal you should have examined the source which his information was based on, it covers the argument of canines. It also presents other arguments which his summary has missed.
Also i don't appreciate the animosity in which you replied, please try and keep the debate civil and structured.
But now we have the technology and nutritional insight to not eat meat but still maintain our health. Please read the thread before presenting an arguement because i have already rebuked this idea.
Good points, it is estimated that 40-50% of humanities entire grain harvest goes to feed farm animals anually. If we were to simply eat the grain without producing meat it is not unreasonable that every person on the planet could be fed with an average of close to 4,000 calories a day.
However, because energy transmission from plants to animals to humans is very inefficient, and we produce far more meat than we really need (heart disease is the number one killer of people in the developed world), we see the food shortages that are currently taking place. It is estimated that humanity will have to increase its food production substantially in the near future, meaning that meat production will decrease.
On April 16 2011 11:54 Aurocaido wrote: Good points, it is estimated that 40-50% of humanities entire grain harvest goes to feed farm animals anually. If we were to simply eat the grain without producing meat it is not unreasonable that every person on the planet could be fed with an average of close to 4,000 calories a day.
However, because energy transmission from plants to animals to humans is very inefficient, and we produce far more meat than we really need (heart disease is the number one killer of people in the developed world), we see the food shortages that are currently taking place. It is estimated that humanity will have to increase its food production substantially in the near future, meaning that meat production will decrease.
As great as this argument is (I've used it), the reason half the world is starving is social inequality: not hypothetical food production capacity.
Vegetarian myself. Been thinking of going vegan for a couple months, but it's a difficult jump. I still live with my parents, so I think maybe once I move out the vegan switch will be easier with 100% control over what gets bought when (foodwise).
Great looking recipes on the OP! I'll try some out this weekend
This thread is like the yin to the "how many beating animal hearts have you swallowed?" thread's yang.
On April 16 2011 06:59 RawVeganYes wrote: Since most people wont read this entire thread let alone the page before this one I will post the video again. If you think humans are designed to eat meat watch the 27-35 mintue mark of the video i believe. Humans have ZERO meat eater traits There is nothing to debate on this. Humans are born plant eaters and aquire the TASTE of meat.
Here are some main points from the video on this for those "too busy to watch"
Humans have flat teath
Humans have the large intestines the length of a plant eater-NOT designed to eat meat. Real meater eaters can't get clogged arteries. The number 1 cause of human meat eaters is heart disease.
Humans jaw moves side to side-unlike a meat eater Humans do not have claws unlike the carnivore and omnivore Humans sweat through our pores to cool ourselfs-unlike panting meat eaters Humans have digestive enzymes in our saliva which only plant eaters have
The french article is silly. Anyone can neglect their kids. And regarding former vegans, the ones previously posted who have written books. A few former vegans have had poorly planned diets and gotten pissy and wrote a book. Ok.
A poorly planned diet of ANY kind will be a problem. Why this is hard for people to understand I will not know.
What about the millions of cases of meat eating familes neglecting their kids by feeding them like a pig with a troft making them massively obese????? and putting them on the path to future health problems.
Yeah, as a medical doctor I'm going to say that you are absolutely 100% wrong.. Starting with your first point:
Take a fucking look at your own canines, are they flat? If you answer this question with yes, then you are indeed a mutant and have probably also developed an extra stomach, entered a symbiotic state and are thus able to break down cellulose like other plant eating animals...
I'm not even going to bother with refuting the rest, it's a genuine waste of time as it is just as easily contradicted and if you actually thought about it you would realise how little sense it makes...
I don't care what you eat, I'm not here to turn you or anything - I'm here to stop the MASSIVE amount of misinformation that is being posted on both sides... And this was one of the worst posts in the entire thread....
Dude before your big scientific rebuttal you should have examined the source which his information was based on, it covers the argument of canines. It also presents other arguments which his summary has missed.
Also i don't appreciate the animosity in which you replied, please try and keep the debate civil and structured.
But now we have the technology and nutritional insight to not eat meat but still maintain our health. Please read the thread before presenting an arguement because i have already rebuked this idea.
You haven't disproved this "arguement" just by saying we have "nutritional insight." What exactly is that supposed to mean anyway? Grains? Soy products? Do you intend to talk about the lipid hypothesis under the assumption that all science is infallible?
Sounds to me like you're just dodging valid research.
I became vegetarian about 10 years ago, I was about 20, has been easy, except for people asking me "why did you become vegetarian" so I try to avoid the subject
I tend to get very lethargic if I don't keep up vitamin B12 levels, which is very hard to do on a vegetarian diet, so I usually take tablets. Other than that, a general balanced diet works good.
I am always amused when overweight unfit people get all concerned about whether I am getting enough nutrients
On April 12 2011 03:35 frogurt wrote: Eggs are vegetarian, fish is not
"Vegetarians" annoy me, if you eat fish you aren't vegetarian, you just dont like red meat. But i guess it's better than nothing.
I've also heard of people who eat a steak a month to keep their iron levels up. Thats more steak than most people eat >:O and can easily be remedied with iron pills or mushrooms, olives, pseudo-meats etc.
On April 16 2011 11:54 Aurocaido wrote: Good points, it is estimated that 40-50% of humanities entire grain harvest goes to feed farm animals anually. If we were to simply eat the grain without producing meat it is not unreasonable that every person on the planet could be fed with an average of close to 4,000 calories a day.
However, because energy transmission from plants to animals to humans is very inefficient, and we produce far more meat than we really need (heart disease is the number one killer of people in the developed world), we see the food shortages that are currently taking place. It is estimated that humanity will have to increase its food production substantially in the near future, meaning that meat production will decrease.
As great as this argument is (I've used it), the reason half the world is starving is social inequality: not hypothetical food production capacity.
Vegetarian myself. Been thinking of going vegan for a couple months, but it's a difficult jump. I still live with my parents, so I think maybe once I move out the vegan switch will be easier with 100% control over what gets bought when (foodwise).
Great looking recipes on the OP! I'll try some out this weekend
This thread is like the yin to the "how many beating animal hearts have you swallowed?" thread's yang.
It's not just about feeding starving people. The point is that we are factory farming animals when we can simply eat the plant resources and water ourselves. The death is not needed. It is a terrible waste of resources, land, etc. Also factory farming is the main reason for deforistation. So much more goes along with this. Factory farms are also the #1 cause of polluting clean water lakes and rivers. The list goes on. There are what 7 billion people on this planet? 50 years from now there will be billions more people. Earth is not getting any bigger.
On April 16 2011 11:54 Aurocaido wrote: Good points, it is estimated that 40-50% of humanities entire grain harvest goes to feed farm animals anually. If we were to simply eat the grain without producing meat it is not unreasonable that every person on the planet could be fed with an average of close to 4,000 calories a day.
However, because energy transmission from plants to animals to humans is very inefficient, and we produce far more meat than we really need (heart disease is the number one killer of people in the developed world), we see the food shortages that are currently taking place. It is estimated that humanity will have to increase its food production substantially in the near future, meaning that meat production will decrease.
As great as this argument is (I've used it), the reason half the world is starving is social inequality: not hypothetical food production capacity.
Vegetarian myself. Been thinking of going vegan for a couple months, but it's a difficult jump. I still live with my parents, so I think maybe once I move out the vegan switch will be easier with 100% control over what gets bought when (foodwise).
Great looking recipes on the OP! I'll try some out this weekend
This thread is like the yin to the "how many beating animal hearts have you swallowed?" thread's yang.
People are not starving because of inequality, they are staving because of poverty. Poverty and inequality are not the same thing. Meat is many times more expensive than grain.
On April 15 2011 14:11 forgotten0ne wrote: ... and we wonder why so many people are unhealthy these days.
Really? Who wonders that? I'm pretty sure everyone knows why...I mean, that's not...not a big mystery or anything. There's no Ripley's Believe it or Not about "Why so many people are fat" or anything.
On April 16 2011 05:44 CorporationsRule wrote: Part of the evolutionary diet perspective is to admit that we can never fully understand anything in science because the world is infinitely complex, so to be able to say "after analyzing milk I think it has everything you need" even though it is not what we evolved eating (after being weened from our mother's breast milk of course) is not something that can ever be completely proven.
That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Just disregard everything humanity has learned over thousands of years and try to eat like cavemen did? What was the average life expectancy for a caveman? How about height?
"Hey, this 4'9'', toothless man who's middle-aged at 20 seems like he's got everything figured out, what with his total disregard for personal hygiene and his incomprehension of toilet paper. Give me what he's having!"
Jeez, I heard about the "paleo-diet" and I thought it made a lot of sense, but I also assumed that there was some actually science behind it. I mean, how do these people think we even know what cavemen ate at all? Is that really the basis for the idea? That is just absurd.
On April 16 2011 06:59 RawVeganYes wrote: Since most people wont read this entire thread let alone the page before this one I will post the video again. If you think humans are designed to eat meat watch the 27-35 mintue mark of the video i believe. Humans have ZERO meat eater traits There is nothing to debate on this. Humans are born plant eaters and aquire the TASTE of meat.
Here are some main points from the video on this for those "too busy to watch"
Humans have flat teath
Humans have the large intestines the length of a plant eater-NOT designed to eat meat. Real meater eaters can't get clogged arteries. The number 1 cause of human meat eaters is heart disease.
Humans jaw moves side to side-unlike a meat eater Humans do not have claws unlike the carnivore and omnivore Humans sweat through our pores to cool ourselfs-unlike panting meat eaters Humans have digestive enzymes in our saliva which only plant eaters have
The french article is silly. Anyone can neglect their kids. And regarding former vegans, the ones previously posted who have written books. A few former vegans have had poorly planned diets and gotten pissy and wrote a book. Ok.
A poorly planned diet of ANY kind will be a problem. Why this is hard for people to understand I will not know.
What about the millions of cases of meat eating familes neglecting their kids by feeding them like a pig with a troft making them massively obese????? and putting them on the path to future health problems.
Yeah, as a medical doctor I'm going to say that you are absolutely 100% wrong.. Starting with your first point:
Take a fucking look at your own canines, are they flat? If you answer this question with yes, then you are indeed a mutant and have probably also developed an extra stomach, entered a symbiotic state and are thus able to break down cellulose like other plant eating animals...
I'm not even going to bother with refuting the rest, it's a genuine waste of time as it is just as easily contradicted and if you actually thought about it you would realise how little sense it makes...
I don't care what you eat, I'm not here to turn you or anything - I'm here to stop the MASSIVE amount of misinformation that is being posted on both sides... And this was one of the worst posts in the entire thread....
Dude before your big scientific rebuttal you should have examined the source which his information was based on, it covers the argument of canines. It also presents other arguments which his summary has missed.
Also i don't appreciate the animosity in which you replied, please try and keep the debate civil and structured.
But now we have the technology and nutritional insight to not eat meat but still maintain our health. Please read the thread before presenting an arguement because i have already rebuked this idea.
You haven't disproved this "arguement" just by saying we have "nutritional insight." What exactly is that supposed to mean anyway? Grains? Soy products? Do you intend to talk about the lipid hypothesis under the assumption that all science is infallible?
Sounds to me like you're just dodging valid research.
"This hypothesis also provides an explanation for the early apparent correlation between encephalization in the early homonids and the incorporation of increasingly large amounts of animal derived food into the diet."
I'm not saying this research is wrong, i agree that animal derived food allowed our brains to develop. What i mean by nutritional insight is that we now understand what nutrients we require to maintain our bodies and can develop alternatives to animal derived food. Note the term "early homonids," which means dependence on meat is specific to primates and not modern humans
On April 16 2011 12:00 RosaParksStoleMySeat wrote:
On April 16 2011 11:51 frogurt wrote:
On April 16 2011 09:36 eshlow wrote:
On April 16 2011 08:44 frogurt wrote:
On April 16 2011 07:14 Ghostcom wrote:
On April 16 2011 06:59 RawVeganYes wrote: Since most people wont read this entire thread let alone the page before this one I will post the video again. If you think humans are designed to eat meat watch the 27-35 mintue mark of the video i believe. Humans have ZERO meat eater traits There is nothing to debate on this. Humans are born plant eaters and aquire the TASTE of meat.
Here are some main points from the video on this for those "too busy to watch"
Humans have flat teath
Humans have the large intestines the length of a plant eater-NOT designed to eat meat. Real meater eaters can't get clogged arteries. The number 1 cause of human meat eaters is heart disease.
Humans jaw moves side to side-unlike a meat eater Humans do not have claws unlike the carnivore and omnivore Humans sweat through our pores to cool ourselfs-unlike panting meat eaters Humans have digestive enzymes in our saliva which only plant eaters have
The french article is silly. Anyone can neglect their kids. And regarding former vegans, the ones previously posted who have written books. A few former vegans have had poorly planned diets and gotten pissy and wrote a book. Ok.
A poorly planned diet of ANY kind will be a problem. Why this is hard for people to understand I will not know.
What about the millions of cases of meat eating familes neglecting their kids by feeding them like a pig with a troft making them massively obese????? and putting them on the path to future health problems.
Yeah, as a medical doctor I'm going to say that you are absolutely 100% wrong.. Starting with your first point:
Take a fucking look at your own canines, are they flat? If you answer this question with yes, then you are indeed a mutant and have probably also developed an extra stomach, entered a symbiotic state and are thus able to break down cellulose like other plant eating animals...
I'm not even going to bother with refuting the rest, it's a genuine waste of time as it is just as easily contradicted and if you actually thought about it you would realise how little sense it makes...
I don't care what you eat, I'm not here to turn you or anything - I'm here to stop the MASSIVE amount of misinformation that is being posted on both sides... And this was one of the worst posts in the entire thread....
Dude before your big scientific rebuttal you should have examined the source which his information was based on, it covers the argument of canines. It also presents other arguments which his summary has missed.
Also i don't appreciate the animosity in which you replied, please try and keep the debate civil and structured.
But now we have the technology and nutritional insight to not eat meat but still maintain our health. Please read the thread before presenting an arguement because i have already rebuked this idea.
You haven't disproved this "arguement" just by saying we have "nutritional insight." What exactly is that supposed to mean anyway? Grains? Soy products? Do you intend to talk about the lipid hypothesis under the assumption that all science is infallible?
Sounds to me like you're just dodging valid research.
"This hypothesis also provides an explanation for the early apparent correlation between encephalization in the early homonids and the incorporation of increasingly large amounts of animal derived food into the diet."
I'm not saying this research is wrong, i agree that animal derived food allowed our brains to develop. What i mean by nutritional insight is that we now understand what nutrients we require to maintain our bodies and can develop alternatives to animal derived food.Note the term "early homonids," which means dependence on meat is specific to primates and not modern humans
So what you're saying is that opposed to it being good for us to eat the foods our ancestors ate, we have new "nutritional insight" (I love the lack of any real clarity on this by the way) that shows we can do this artificially, under the assumption that any artificially created foods in the history of mankind have ever been anything less than detrimental to our health?
The problem I have with veganism isn't on a moral level. I think that if you all oppose the meat industry, it is a completely fair thing to do. I just dislike the vast amounts of misinformation and lack of evidence you base it all on.
How is now knowing what nutrients we need and being aware of it and getting them soley from plants artificial? Last time I checked plants weren't artificial. What he ment was alternative to the typical meat eating diet. Not specifically something artificial I believe. You makes 0 sense. Every single thing that our body needs has a plant source, even B12. How in the world do you think the animals your eating (the vegan or semi vegan ones) get their nutrients lol.
If someone is concerned they can take a small amount of vegan supplements. It's no more artificial than someone drinking a coke.
EPT
