On May 27 2011 21:32 Deekin[ wrote: Its very safe to say that Savior wont come back to any kind of tournament in BW so why are everyone hoping for it when it wont happen?
I think it is extremely safe to say that Savior won't make a comeback in BW. KeSPA have given him a lifetime ban from e-sports. Having said this, it's funny to see that coach post a tweet pretty much with a HOW DARE HE PLAY BROOD WAR NON-COMPETITIVELY AGAIN, THE MATCH FIXING SCUMBAG type message.
Then again, if it's only KeSPA that have permabanned him from professional competition, could he technically go into Starcraft II seeing as KeSPA don't really have any control currently over that game and because the foreign progamer scene has hugely flourished for SC2 compared to how it was for BW?
In fact, I think the only thing that would really hold Savior back is his past record in the scandal and any of the negative PR generated by allowing him in (even a foreign) progaming team or league.
Seeing how overly strict KeSPA have been on trivial things such as what you can say on in-game chat, I don't think they will EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER give Savior another chance to compete in Broodwar.
GOMTV banned all the matchfixers as well. As for non-korean competitions who knows, AFAIK there haven't been any official statements on them.
He's banned from Kespa, and he's banned from GOM, and the WCG doesn't do BW anymore. There's no tournament worth entering that'll let him in. There aren't any foreign BW tournaments worth a damn, and he can't even switch to SC2 because GOM owns the GSL (probably NASL would let him in for the "story" or whatever the hell, but NASL's not worth it).
There's no way Savior's playing e-sports again. And he has no one to blame for himself for getting greedy and tarnishing the BW scene.
Koreans are really overacting about this whole scandal. Although it may be me just being used to such things happen a lot in my country: the place where noone gives a damn about anything ;O
On May 28 2011 02:10 Megatronn wrote: If Savior started playing again i'd watch BW. After reading the article about him and watching some of his games I was just amazed. Watching him play has completly changed my perspective on how I view SC2, everyone can learn something from watching Savior be amazing.
bw is more worth watching than sc2 anyways: games are closer, more thought out and exciting.
Come on... I love Savior too but the guy deserves life ban. On SC2 subject though, he should be able to play competively, idk why GOM TV followed KESPA decision, i mean, these are 2 extremely different games besides their names.
Loved the Maestro as a player, but I hate his guts as a person. He put the whole BW scene in risk for his personal gain. While I still think he deserves the title of former bonjwa for his play and a second chance in life, he definitely has no more business playing BW competitively.
On May 27 2011 21:32 Deekin[ wrote: Its very safe to say that Savior wont come back to any kind of tournament in BW so why are everyone hoping for it when it wont happen?
I think it is extremely safe to say that Savior won't make a comeback in BW. KeSPA have given him a lifetime ban from e-sports. Having said this, it's funny to see that coach post a tweet pretty much with a HOW DARE HE PLAY BROOD WAR NON-COMPETITIVELY AGAIN, THE MATCH FIXING SCUMBAG type message.
Then again, if it's only KeSPA that have permabanned him from professional competition, could he technically go into Starcraft II seeing as KeSPA don't really have any control currently over that game and because the foreign progamer scene has hugely flourished for SC2 compared to how it was for BW?
In fact, I think the only thing that would really hold Savior back is his past record in the scandal and any of the negative PR generated by allowing him in (even a foreign) progaming team or league.
Seeing how overly strict KeSPA have been on trivial things such as what you can say on in-game chat, I don't think they will EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER give Savior another chance to compete in Broodwar.
GOMTV banned all the matchfixers as well. As for non-korean competitions who knows, AFAIK there haven't been any official statements on them.
He's banned from Kespa, and he's banned from GOM, and the WCG doesn't do BW anymore. There's no tournament worth entering that'll let him in. There aren't any foreign BW tournaments worth a damn, and he can't even switch to SC2 because GOM owns the GSL (probably NASL would let him in for the "story" or whatever the hell, but NASL's not worth it).
There's no way Savior's playing e-sports again. And he has no one to blame for himself for getting greedy and tarnishing the BW scene.
Since when was getting payed to play a video game not worth it? There are enough Sc2 tourny's outside of Korea if he wanted to make money that way he could, and it would def be worth it. I don't care if he plays or not, but you cannot say, well its just not worth it.
MLG, Dreamhack, IPL, NASL, WCG, Other Asian countries like Taiwan and China (< I even feel like I'm missing a big one there). The money is there, and its still a video game. Honestly if you can grind the 8-10 hours of 1v1's a day, its probably the best way a young man could ever make money... (from his POV, besides gambling of course HAHAAHAH)
Even if he was allowed to play BW again, he'd probably lose like he did after his prime. SC2 is a different ball game, but I'd speculate that he'd end up like July, doing okay but not amazing.
On May 28 2011 03:27 Callous wrote: Even if he was allowed to play BW again, he'd probably lose like he did after his prime. SC2 is a different ball game, but I'd speculate that he'd end up like July, doing okay but not amazing.
I think savior could probably do better than July, because Savior was better at his peak than July ever was. Zerg especially is very different, but Savior was a also a pretty good Terran player. I think that Savior playing as T in SC2 could do quite well. I doubt we'll ever know, however.
Towards the end of his career, I definitely felt Savior had lost his edge, so I'm not sure he could have won another title. A huge part of it of course was ZvZ. Savior's role in pioneering modern ZvZ is badly understated (I really consider it to have been Savior to start planning builds and strategies that reduce fluky-ness in the match-up -- although true modern ZvZ clearly didn't start until Jaedong), but even though he helped create it... turned out that he was awful at it.
ZvT and even ZvP also. In his prime he was always one step ahead. Always. But later in his career he just wasn't.
On May 28 2011 04:04 Mortality wrote: Towards the end of his career, I definitely felt Savior had lost his edge, so I'm not sure he could have won another title. A huge part of it of course was ZvZ. Savior's role in pioneering modern ZvZ is badly understated (I really consider it to have been Savior to start planning builds and strategies that reduce fluky-ness in the match-up -- although true modern ZvZ clearly didn't start until Jaedong), but even though he helped create it... turned out that he was awful at it.
ZvT and even ZvP also. In his prime he was always one step ahead. Always. But later in his career he just wasn't.
because of the match making stuff. You can't be too sure that he actually "lost his edge" or not. He might have been paid to lose...... technically (I wasn't part of the scene, but I'm just stating... idk ;o)
On May 28 2011 03:27 Callous wrote: Even if he was allowed to play BW again, he'd probably lose like he did after his prime. SC2 is a different ball game, but I'd speculate that he'd end up like July, doing okay but not amazing.
He wouldn't do as well as July. He wouldn't even do as "well" as Boxer. Who's he going to practice with? Even if Dreamhack/NASL/IEM/IPL let him play (and that's a pretty big fucking if. MLG certainly won't; it's in a player exchange with GSL. I highly doubt he'd be invited to TSLs either), ICCUP.Testbug, Terminus RE, and Crossfire SE aren't on the ladder, so he'd need to play customs to practice them, a situation that'll just get worse and worse as new GSL maps come out and get adopted by tournaments. What team would pick him up? He's a toxic asset in Korea (even ignoring that he can't play there), and none of the foreign teams want to touch him.
Pretty much the only league where I could even conceivably see Savior allowed it is the that-desperate-for-ratings and "narrative-driven" NASL, and you can't live off NASL if it's the only tournament you're allowed in.
Savior COULD set up a stream, and try and make a living that way (which worked out well for ROOTDestiny), but his professional gaming career is for all intents and purposes dead. Maybe he can coach unethical Korean kids or something.
On May 28 2011 03:27 Callous wrote: Even if he was allowed to play BW again, he'd probably lose like he did after his prime. SC2 is a different ball game, but I'd speculate that he'd end up like July, doing okay but not amazing.
He wouldn't do as well as July. He wouldn't even do as "well" as Boxer. Who's he going to practice with? Even if Dreamhack/NASL/IEM/IPL let him play (and that's a pretty big fucking if. MLG certainly won't; it's in a player exchange with GSL. I highly doubt he'd be invited to TSLs either), ICCUP.Testbug, Terminus RE, and Crossfire SE aren't on the ladder, so he'd need to play customs to practice them, a situation that'll just get worse and worse as new GSL maps come out and get adopted by tournaments. What team would pick him up? He's a toxic asset in Korea (even ignoring that he can't play there), and none of the foreign teams want to touch him.
Pretty much the only league where I could even conceivably see Savior allowed it is the that-desperate-for-ratings and "narrative-driven" NASL, and you can't live off NASL if it's the only tournament you're allowed in.
Savior COULD set up a stream, and try and make a living that way (which worked out well for ROOTDestiny), but his professional gaming career is for all intents and purposes dead. Maybe he can coach unethical Korean kids or something.
Either way, it's better if Savior doesn't play SC2 even if he could. He's already a legend (in more ways than one), and he'll always be remembered as "Ma Bonjwa", despite his match fixing scandal. There's no need for him to play SC2 and perform mediocre and ruin his already shit reputation, due to the reasons you listed and many more. He's done with progaming.
On May 28 2011 03:27 Callous wrote: Even if he was allowed to play BW again, he'd probably lose like he did after his prime. SC2 is a different ball game, but I'd speculate that he'd end up like July, doing okay but not amazing.
July's done pretty well SC2. He's the fifth Korea to go to MLG, and currently the highest ranked player in NASL, plus second place in GSL. But if Savior had the chance he could roll foreign SC2. Despite the easier nature of SC2 people still don't macro and micro perfectly .
On May 28 2011 19:41 Mooncat wrote: Btw. does sAviOr still stream games somewhere? If so, when and where?
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
He plays for fun just like you and me since hes no longer a progamer anymore. I highly doubt he would stream anything as it attracts unwanted attention and if he would hed probably go under a unknown alias.
On May 27 2011 21:32 Deekin[ wrote: Its very safe to say that Savior wont come back to any kind of tournament in BW so why are everyone hoping for it when it wont happen?
I think it is extremely safe to say that Savior won't make a comeback in BW. KeSPA have given him a lifetime ban from e-sports. Having said this, it's funny to see that coach post a tweet pretty much with a HOW DARE HE PLAY BROOD WAR NON-COMPETITIVELY AGAIN, THE MATCH FIXING SCUMBAG type message.
Then again, if it's only KeSPA that have permabanned him from professional competition, could he technically go into Starcraft II seeing as KeSPA don't really have any control currently over that game and because the foreign progamer scene has hugely flourished for SC2 compared to how it was for BW?
In fact, I think the only thing that would really hold Savior back is his past record in the scandal and any of the negative PR generated by allowing him in (even a foreign) progaming team or league.
Seeing how overly strict KeSPA have been on trivial things such as what you can say on in-game chat, I don't think they will EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER give Savior another chance to compete in Broodwar.
GOMTV banned all the matchfixers as well. As for non-korean competitions who knows, AFAIK there haven't been any official statements on them.
He's banned from Kespa, and he's banned from GOM, and the WCG doesn't do BW anymore. There's no tournament worth entering that'll let him in. There aren't any foreign BW tournaments worth a damn, and he can't even switch to SC2 because GOM owns the GSL (probably NASL would let him in for the "story" or whatever the hell, but NASL's not worth it).
There's no way Savior's playing e-sports again. And he has no one to blame for himself for getting greedy and tarnishing the BW scene.
Since when was getting payed to play a video game not worth it? There are enough Sc2 tourny's outside of Korea if he wanted to make money that way he could, and it would def be worth it. I don't care if he plays or not, but you cannot say, well its just not worth it.
MLG, Dreamhack, IPL, NASL, WCG, Other Asian countries like Taiwan and China (< I even feel like I'm missing a big one there). The money is there, and its still a video game. Honestly if you can grind the 8-10 hours of 1v1's a day, its probably the best way a young man could ever make money... (from his POV, besides gambling of course HAHAAHAH)
Several issues with that.
1) Savior probably barely knows a word of English unlike some other Korean players in the pro-gaming scene like Cella, SeleCT etc.
2) There would virtually be NO place in Korea apart from Ladder for him to practice. No Korean SC2 team would want to sign him for all the negative PR it would generate both towards their team and the Korean SC2 scene in general and even then he cannot be used for any Korean SC2 events (basically just the GSL) because Gretech have upheld the KeSPA lifetime ban in their own leagues. The benefits of being in a pro-gaming team and having the training schedule and practice partners would greatly outweigh just grinding a crapload of Ladder games.
3) Would a foreign team or league even be willing to take him on after the match fixing scandal?
Having said this, if say..... ROOT Gaming for instance signed him as an up-and-coming Starcraft II player, it could have very mixed reactions from the fans. Some may be happy to see the return of a Brood War bonjwa while others may just boycott ROOT over giving a criminal another chance.
The money is there, and its still a video game. Honestly if you can grind the 8-10 hours of 1v1's a day
No offence mate, but if grinding 8 - 10 hours of a videogame a day could make you a professional, how how come we're seeing videogame addiction rehab clinics pop up rather than a load more professional WoW players?
I didn't mean that negatively towards anybody who has suffered from what they call videogame addiction or an addictive personality, but I don't think professional status is just determined by how many hours you play. I think there needs to be a certain degree of skill and talent to be a progamer.
On May 28 2011 04:04 Mortality wrote: Towards the end of his career, I definitely felt Savior had lost his edge, so I'm not sure he could have won another title. A huge part of it of course was ZvZ. Savior's role in pioneering modern ZvZ is badly understated (I really consider it to have been Savior to start planning builds and strategies that reduce fluky-ness in the match-up -- although true modern ZvZ clearly didn't start until Jaedong), but even though he helped create it... turned out that he was awful at it.
ZvT and even ZvP also. In his prime he was always one step ahead. Always. But later in his career he just wasn't.
because of the match making stuff. You can't be too sure that he actually "lost his edge" or not. He might have been paid to lose...... technically (I wasn't part of the scene, but I'm just stating... idk ;o)
All the games thrown were PL. Please explain Savior's lack of SL advancement?
On May 28 2011 04:04 Mortality wrote: Towards the end of his career, I definitely felt Savior had lost his edge, so I'm not sure he could have won another title. A huge part of it of course was ZvZ. Savior's role in pioneering modern ZvZ is badly understated (I really consider it to have been Savior to start planning builds and strategies that reduce fluky-ness in the match-up -- although true modern ZvZ clearly didn't start until Jaedong), but even though he helped create it... turned out that he was awful at it.
ZvT and even ZvP also. In his prime he was always one step ahead. Always. But later in his career he just wasn't.
because of the match making stuff. You can't be too sure that he actually "lost his edge" or not. He might have been paid to lose...... technically (I wasn't part of the scene, but I'm just stating... idk ;o)
All the games thrown were PL. Please explain Savior's lack of SL advancement?
Savior v Upmagic was supposed to be thrown in the msl I'm pretty sure...
Savior is banned from Kespa and Gom, but he isn't banned from Afreeca nor is he banned from playing SC in general.
So what did he do wrong here? why is he getting so much shit?
He did something wrong before, and received his deserved punishment, and that is the end of the story. It is very discriminating of us to ridicule him after he received his punishments.
EPT
