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On December 31 2010 23:00 kaisr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2010 22:55 gen.Sun wrote:On December 31 2010 22:48 kaisr wrote:On December 31 2010 22:40 gen.Sun wrote:On December 31 2010 22:22 Jakalo wrote:On December 31 2010 20:06 n.DieJokes wrote:On December 31 2010 19:40 dogabutila wrote:If BW is better, then why the heck isn't everybody just transitioning over? This again comes down to media attention. HD, Husky, GSL, etc.. Get it straight, Teamliquid.net is NOT a bw site. It is a site for Team Liquid. That professional SC2 team you may or may not know about. This makes me ill On December 31 2010 19:48 Jakalo wrote:
If anything Starcraft 2 is beneficial to Broodwar (maybe less so in Korea, but for now lets stick to foreign scene) as some of new visitors of the site might notice Broodwar section, games streamed from Korea and terrific job our coverage teams are doing and take up BW mantle along Sc2. Would make sense in theory but this is actually crap. 1. Almost every strong foreigner has switched to sc2. 2. The entire broodwar player base tried sc2, not everyone came back. 3. Broodwar is hard, really hard and skill level is very high. Sc2 is easy to get into, the ladder matches you with fellow scrubs and the game is easier; it's not a hard choice for a newbie. I agree, its hard to go back (or start) playing Broodwar, but what I was aiming at was newcomers watching and following broodwar scene as most of us do instead of playing. Also I would appreciate not throwing ''crap'' around. I think that SC2 is overall a good thing for BW. Because I'm fully confident that the SC2 will atrophy and the foreign viewers and players will slowly drift back to BW. I'm already seeing a lot of newbies in the LR threads and the streams. It'll be tough for a year or 2 but BW will eventually come out stronger imo. fwiw I think if sc2 dies out, BW won't magically be reborn. Just look at what CS:Source and all the hype it created about esports and north american progaming did to CS 1.6... it killed both communities However I think sc2 is much more successful than cs:source and personally don't see it dying in 2 years (i mean thats when the protoss sc2 game will probably just be coming out). I think sc2 still has a long long life ahead of it. It depends on where the money goes. There's like 20 Korean companies that support eSports. All together they have like 500 billion dollars of market value. If those companies decide to invest in SC2, have it fail, then that may turn them off eSports forever. If those companies keep on investing in BW as they have been doing, then whatever happens in SC2 will not damage BW. well then you're just talking about the korean scene where BW is as active and alive as ever. Its only in the foreign scene that BW is pretty much completely dead, and theres no way korean companies would invest in foreign tournaments.
There was never even 1 foreign league in existence.
There never was a foreign BW pro scene bro, don't know what you're talking about.
I can't care less about player count on bnet, I'm talking about eSports.
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Have you never heard of WCG? MSL? ESL? Any of the leagues from a decade ago? How bout the TeamLiquid Starleague? How bout the TeamLiquid Starleague 2?
It's distasteful how wrong your post is.
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On December 31 2010 18:40 Zapdos_Smithh wrote:I began to type this just as a reply to the post, but I would rather blog it so more people actually read this rather than just looking at the length and omitting it altogether. I am not trying to start some sort of heated sc2/bw debate, I just would rather more people read this because I put a good amount of time into typing it and it's something that has been on my mind for a while now. Anyway here we go Show nested quote +On December 31 2010 18:12 evanthebouncy! wrote:
yeah i expect sc2 to grow out of style and die, smothering out bw in the process. so they'll ruin both games.
but that's to pessimistic.
In bw cheeses are actually creative and fun because the risk is so high. Do you love Boxer? Do you love when he cheeses? Of course you do!
But do you like Foxer when he cheeses?? HELL NO!! Cuz it's the SAME BULLSHIT over and over.
Boxer cheese/micro is phenominal, it's something you CANNOT do and you jizz your pants watching it. Foxer? Same o' bull over and over, which is just retarded. Sadly enough, because SC2 players haven't seen BW, they think Foxer cheeses are new and innovative and amazing. What keeps SC2 going in my opinion...is the fans who support it competitively who did NOT play BW. This huge fanbase is growing and growing, creating a group of elitist SC2 players who believe that SC2 is the first (and best) competitive game out there. This is mainly fueled by HuskyStarcraft and HD, along with GSL and all the tournaments putting money into a game that is very new. What happens when you try to break down a huge army of ignorant people? They get defensive. This has created the arguments of which game is better. Anybody who says SC2 is better than BW clearly has not played BW and is ignorant. If BW is better, then why the heck isn't everybody just transitioning over? This again comes down to media attention. HD, Husky, GSL, etc.. I distinctly remember a statement Husky made in their HDH Tournament. At the beginning of a match, he stated: "SC2...the greatest competitive RTS game ever created" Now keep in mind, this was said roughly 3-4 months after SC2 beta was even released! It's hype! that's all SC2 really is, just a big load of hype. Husky himself KNEW at that time, the complexity of BW was greater than SC2. This is simply logical because SC2 is a brand new frigging video game while BW was out and developed for 11 years! You cannot say at that time, SC2 is better than BW, it would not make sense for somebody to say that who played competitive BW! Also, why would people go to a game that has a regular of roughly 500-600 people on their competitive ladder when SC2 has...I don't even what to know. What is the purpose of getting good at a game that is hardly supported by media, as well as being near god-damn impossible to be deemed as "good"? There is NO motivation to go to BW for new SC2 players. They want attention, they want instant gratification of "being good" (achieveable by these leagues made by blizzard), they want to beat their friends and be good at a game. That's simply it. This huge fanbase (husky has like 350k subscribers? nevake had like a peak of 10k) is now dominant EVEN IN TL! TEAMLIQUID.NET...the EPITOME of foreigner BW...is now dominated by SC2 players. How the hell are people going to convert to BW when even the most hardcore BW site out there is overrun by these SC2 players? I'll tell you, there is NEAR NO reason to convert. This is why SC2 is even still alive today. The game is a good rts, but it doesn't even come CLOSE to BW. Will it? Never, I can never see that happening. Blizzard has already indicated that they are doing shit their own way whether we like it or not. Bye bye high-ground advantage which allows in-depth strategies, bye bye attack move, Blizzard couldn't care less. To them, SC2 is making so much effing money it's not even funny. GSL and HD and Husky support this by pumping in more and more and more people into competitive SC2 by the god damn day. Eventually though, people will get bored of this game like every game hyped up by media. This is already prevalent in blogs like this...the game is BORING. Even some SC2 players are losing interest (more blogs proving this). Only then in my opinion, when SC2 starts to die off, people may want that rush of RTS again and may find BW to replace it. However I see this as a long process that is just barely starting to intiate.
Ugh, your post is so full of hypocrisy that it hurts me.
Firstly, you say that SC2 only exist because fans that have not played BW support it. Which is a bit of a weird point since 99% of the best foreigner BW players have switched over to SC2. In fact, some of the biggest BW legends have made the switch; Boxer, NaDa, JulyZerg. Furthermore I dare say that more than 50% of people that visited teamliquid for BW also like watching SC2.
It's a weird statement overall since you're saying that Starcraft 2 attracts people not initially involved in Starcraft. Which can only mean it does something good as a game.
No-one thinks MarineKing is creative because he occasionally cheeses. People think he's creative because he introduced Marine heavy play in all MU's and made it work by great micro. Foxer and Boxer were creative because they can make things work through control, not because they cheese a lot. If Boxer had kept bunker rushing every game, I'm pretty sure people would have gotten tired of it. The only reason those rushes were riskier was because BW was more figured out than SC2 is today, and even then, cheese is always risky, hence it's called cheese.
Saying that Boxer cheese is awesome because you jizz your pants when he does it is not really proof of anything, just that Boxer turns you on. When MarineKing cheeses and makes it work because of great control (just like Boxer did) and then calling it "the same 'ol bull" is just you playing down his accomplishments since you don't like SC2. You try to use your own experience and biased POV as proof, it doesn't work that way.
I watched BW before SC2 was out and I still think Foxer's marine play is creative ... wow, there must be something wrong with me because I don't behave the way you predicted ...
And then you follow up with:
"What happens when you try to break down a huge army of ignorant people? They get defensive. This has created the arguments of which game is better. Anybody who says SC2 is better than BW clearly has not played BW and is ignorant."
It's funny that you don't even realise you are posting this rant because you are defensive of BW. You're posting this because you can't handle the fact that SC2 is more popular than the game you love and as such you get agressive (defensive) by insulting SC2 fans, calling them ignorant. You then show how ignorant you are yourself and claim that everyone who thinks SC2 is better hasn't played BW ... just wow, how can you even remotely believe you have the authority to say such a thing in the name of everyone that played BW? How you can even believe this is true for everyone just boggles my mind.
Plenty of people have transitioned to SC2 so I don't really get this point, the people in BW nowadays have mostly only played that game their entire life, it isn't much of a suprise that they wouldn't abandon ship as soon as SC2 came out. They have a job now and can always switch when/ if BW dies out.
Then you say Husky can't claim that SC2 is the best RTS of all time since SC2 is new ... but somehow you feel SC2 is ripe enough for you to decide that BW is better than SC2? Logic?
BW only has 500-600 active people on ladder and you blame that on the fact not more people play the game? Circular argument much?
Husky has 350k subscribers. Nevake had 10k at most, again what does this prove besides the fact that SC2 is more popular than BW has ever been?
TeamLiquid as a team has switched to SC2, and obviously SC2 has done the site/ team good. If you can't handle there being more SC2 than BW around maybe you should start your own hardcore BW site (no SC2 noobs allowed?) because you're not ignorant or elitist like them.
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On December 31 2010 19:36 .Aar wrote:
You telling me SC2 is boring doesn't make it boring.
I think that this is the most important post in this thread.
Why should we care that you say SC2 is boring? People who watch SC2 (and there are a lot of them) obviously don't find it boring. What are you trying to accomplish? Do you think that saying that it's boring somehow makes people feel that it's boring? Good luck with that.
Maybe if in a few years SC2 implodes you'll bring this back and tells us all how you were right. I hope it makes you feel a bit better inside.
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On December 31 2010 23:24 Craton wrote:
Have you never heard of WCG? MSL? ESL? Any of the leagues from a decade ago? How bout the TeamLiquid Starleague? How bout the TeamLiquid Starleague 2?
It's distasteful how wrong your post is.
:S I've been following BW since 2005.
Those are not real leagues bro. They have like 1 tournament a year, they maintain no rankings, they don't keep any pros employed, they pay out less than my high school robotics club, and I don't call myself a pro robot maker.
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On December 31 2010 23:31 Saechiis wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2010 18:40 Zapdos_Smithh wrote:I began to type this just as a reply to the post, but I would rather blog it so more people actually read this rather than just looking at the length and omitting it altogether. I am not trying to start some sort of heated sc2/bw debate, I just would rather more people read this because I put a good amount of time into typing it and it's something that has been on my mind for a while now. Anyway here we go On December 31 2010 18:12 evanthebouncy! wrote:
yeah i expect sc2 to grow out of style and die, smothering out bw in the process. so they'll ruin both games.
but that's to pessimistic.
In bw cheeses are actually creative and fun because the risk is so high. Do you love Boxer? Do you love when he cheeses? Of course you do!
But do you like Foxer when he cheeses?? HELL NO!! Cuz it's the SAME BULLSHIT over and over.
Boxer cheese/micro is phenominal, it's something you CANNOT do and you jizz your pants watching it. Foxer? Same o' bull over and over, which is just retarded. Sadly enough, because SC2 players haven't seen BW, they think Foxer cheeses are new and innovative and amazing. What keeps SC2 going in my opinion...is the fans who support it competitively who did NOT play BW. This huge fanbase is growing and growing, creating a group of elitist SC2 players who believe that SC2 is the first (and best) competitive game out there. This is mainly fueled by HuskyStarcraft and HD, along with GSL and all the tournaments putting money into a game that is very new. What happens when you try to break down a huge army of ignorant people? They get defensive. This has created the arguments of which game is better. Anybody who says SC2 is better than BW clearly has not played BW and is ignorant. If BW is better, then why the heck isn't everybody just transitioning over? This again comes down to media attention. HD, Husky, GSL, etc.. I distinctly remember a statement Husky made in their HDH Tournament. At the beginning of a match, he stated: "SC2...the greatest competitive RTS game ever created" Now keep in mind, this was said roughly 3-4 months after SC2 beta was even released! It's hype! that's all SC2 really is, just a big load of hype. Husky himself KNEW at that time, the complexity of BW was greater than SC2. This is simply logical because SC2 is a brand new frigging video game while BW was out and developed for 11 years! You cannot say at that time, SC2 is better than BW, it would not make sense for somebody to say that who played competitive BW! Also, why would people go to a game that has a regular of roughly 500-600 people on their competitive ladder when SC2 has...I don't even what to know. What is the purpose of getting good at a game that is hardly supported by media, as well as being near god-damn impossible to be deemed as "good"? There is NO motivation to go to BW for new SC2 players. They want attention, they want instant gratification of "being good" (achieveable by these leagues made by blizzard), they want to beat their friends and be good at a game. That's simply it. This huge fanbase (husky has like 350k subscribers? nevake had like a peak of 10k) is now dominant EVEN IN TL! TEAMLIQUID.NET...the EPITOME of foreigner BW...is now dominated by SC2 players. How the hell are people going to convert to BW when even the most hardcore BW site out there is overrun by these SC2 players? I'll tell you, there is NEAR NO reason to convert. This is why SC2 is even still alive today. The game is a good rts, but it doesn't even come CLOSE to BW. Will it? Never, I can never see that happening. Blizzard has already indicated that they are doing shit their own way whether we like it or not. Bye bye high-ground advantage which allows in-depth strategies, bye bye attack move, Blizzard couldn't care less. To them, SC2 is making so much effing money it's not even funny. GSL and HD and Husky support this by pumping in more and more and more people into competitive SC2 by the god damn day. Eventually though, people will get bored of this game like every game hyped up by media. This is already prevalent in blogs like this...the game is BORING. Even some SC2 players are losing interest (more blogs proving this). Only then in my opinion, when SC2 starts to die off, people may want that rush of RTS again and may find BW to replace it. However I see this as a long process that is just barely starting to intiate. Ugh, your post is so full of hypocrisy that it hurts me. Firstly, you say that SC2 only exist because fans that have not played BW support it. Which is a bit of a weird point since 99% of the best foreigner BW players have switched over to SC2. In fact, some of the biggest BW legends have made the switch; Boxer, NaDa, JulyZerg. Furthermore I dare say that more than 50% of people that visited teamliquid for BW also like watching SC2. It's a weird statement overall since you're saying that Starcraft 2 attracts people not initially involved in Starcraft. Which can only mean it does something good as a game. No-one thinks MarineKing is creative because he occasionally cheeses. People think he's creative because he introduced Marine heavy play in all MU's and made it work by great micro. Foxer and Boxer were creative because they can make things work through control, not because they cheese a lot. If Boxer had kept bunker rushing every game, I'm pretty sure people would have gotten tired of it. The only reason those rushes were riskier was because BW was more figured out than SC2 is today, and even then, cheese is always risky, hence it's called cheese. Saying that Boxer cheese is awesome because you jizz your pants when he does it is not really proof of anything, just that Boxer turns you on. When MarineKing cheeses and makes it work because of great control (just like Boxer did) and then calling it "the same 'ol bull" is just you playing down his accomplishments since you don't like SC2. You try to use your own experience and biased POV as proof, it doesn't work that way. I watched BW before SC2 was out and I still think Foxer's marine play is creative ... wow, there must be something wrong with me because I don't behave the way you predicted ... And then you follow up with: "What happens when you try to break down a huge army of ignorant people? They get defensive. This has created the arguments of which game is better. Anybody who says SC2 is better than BW clearly has not played BW and is ignorant." It's funny that you don't even realise you are posting this rant because you are defensive of BW. You're posting this because you can't handle the fact that SC2 is more popular than the game you love and as such you get agressive (defensive) by insulting SC2 fans, calling them ignorant. You then show how ignorant you are yourself and claim that everyone who thinks SC2 is better hasn't played BW ... just wow, how can you even remotely believe you have the authority to say such a thing in the name of everyone that played BW? How you can even believe this is true for everyone just boggles my mind. Plenty of people have transitioned to SC2 so I don't really get this point, the people in BW nowadays have mostly only played that game their entire life, it isn't much of a suprise that they wouldn't abandon ship as soon as SC2 came out. They have a job now and can always switch when/ if BW dies out. Then you say Husky can't claim that SC2 is the best RTS of all time since SC2 is new ... but somehow you feel SC2 is ripe enough for you to decide that BW is better than SC2? Logic? BW only has 500-600 active people on ladder and you blame that on the fact not more people play the game? Circular argument much? Husky has 350k subscribers. Nevake had 10k at most, again what does this prove besides the fact that SC2 is more popular than BW has ever been? TeamLiquid as a team has switched to SC2, and obviously SC2 has done the site/ team good. If you can't handle there being more SC2 than BW around maybe you should start your own hardcore BW site (no SC2 noobs allowed?) because you're not ignorant or elitist like them.
Haa thanx for this post..I was shocked reading OP because it sounds really too elitist (in a bad, bad way).
I'm 36, I bought sc and bw the day of release and I follow pro scene since Boxer, and I still like sc2, I love Foxer's sick marine micro. I think broodwar is better, and even if I played broodwar for like 8 years every weekend doing lans with friends, I still have fun with sc2. But this doesn't make me spit on some group of people "who don't understand".
I don't know how sc2 will turn out, but starcraft wasn't exactly perfect at release, and if the expansions brings some cool units with potential (like reaver or lurkers) it could become a great game.
If I were as elitist as you, I'd say you miss being part of a small "underground" group that hate to see his passion becoming a mainstream thing because he can't define himself anymore as undergound. But with age and maturity you'll understand that you don't need something like that to define yourself and you'll accept that people like different things without them being wrong.
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On December 31 2010 22:40 gen.Sun wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2010 22:22 Jakalo wrote:On December 31 2010 20:06 n.DieJokes wrote:On December 31 2010 19:40 dogabutila wrote:If BW is better, then why the heck isn't everybody just transitioning over? This again comes down to media attention. HD, Husky, GSL, etc.. Get it straight, Teamliquid.net is NOT a bw site. It is a site for Team Liquid. That professional SC2 team you may or may not know about. This makes me ill On December 31 2010 19:48 Jakalo wrote:
If anything Starcraft 2 is beneficial to Broodwar (maybe less so in Korea, but for now lets stick to foreign scene) as some of new visitors of the site might notice Broodwar section, games streamed from Korea and terrific job our coverage teams are doing and take up BW mantle along Sc2. Would make sense in theory but this is actually crap. 1. Almost every strong foreigner has switched to sc2. 2. The entire broodwar player base tried sc2, not everyone came back. 3. Broodwar is hard, really hard and skill level is very high. Sc2 is easy to get into, the ladder matches you with fellow scrubs and the game is easier; it's not a hard choice for a newbie. I agree, its hard to go back (or start) playing Broodwar, but what I was aiming at was newcomers watching and following broodwar scene as most of us do instead of playing. Also I would appreciate not throwing ''crap'' around. I think that SC2 is overall a good thing for BW. Because I'm fully confident that the SC2 will atrophy and the foreign viewers and players will slowly drift back to BW. I'm already seeing a lot of newbies in the LR threads and the streams. It'll be tough for a year or 2 but BW will eventually come out stronger imo.
If we can hold the hydra all in. The advantage will be ours ^^.
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On January 01 2011 00:00 MrCon wrote:
[
Haa thanx for this post..I was shocked reading OP because it sounds really too elitist (in a bad, bad way).
I'm 36, I bought sc and bw the day of release and I follow pro scene since Boxer, and I still like sc2, I love Foxer's sick marine micro. I think broodwar is better, and even if I played broodwar for like 8 years every weekend doing lans with friends, I still have fun with sc2. But this doesn't make me spit on some group of people "who don't understand".
I don't know how sc2 will turn out, but starcraft wasn't exactly perfect at release, and if the expansions brings some cool units with potential (like reaver or lurkers) it could become a great game.
If I were as elitist as you, I'd say you miss being part of a small "underground" group that hate to see his passion becoming a mainstream thing because he can't define himself anymore as undergound. But with age and maturity you'll understand that you don't need something like that to define yourself and you'll accept that people like different things without them being wrong.
It's not about being elitist at all. I can see what the point of the author is, so I don't fully agree with him. I never really cared for SCII before the Beta started. I got a key for the first wave, played a bunch of games (200-300) and the game never caught me. I stopped caring again, since it isn't fun - for me. I respect other people and their opinions.
A thing I could observe was the vast majority switching, leaving you behind and start to characterize you as some stubborn broodwar-die-hard, that is just too old and conservative to accept changes. Then again the community somehow transformed in great parts, always telling stories how SCII would help the foreign E-Sports scene and how this game would own everything. I disagree. I don't see any chances for the e-Sports scene (whatever this is) to grow because of SCII being hyped all over the place. People start to give up their work and focus on SCII only, or at least pretend to do so. If they want to, I don't stop them. What really gets to me, and that's the point I will never ever understand, is why people still come to what's left of broodwar and saying our community would be dead, and at the same time saying that they are a bit bored by SCII for now. But all will eventually change the game needs still to be balanced bla bla bla, more add-ons coming, bla bla bla, so join the new SCII hype and get over your old game bla bla bla.
Hell I don't want to, and I even don't want to hear about the game, because I do not care, not because I hate it. It's a good game, but I have a hard time to even compare it to my beloved Broodwar. The point what most people miss is that a game should be fun, not e-sports or a money making job that pays you off well enough to actually spend the rest of your life in luxury or whatever. It's not about what the majority thinks, it's what about gives you fun in your spare time. That's at least my opinion, and that's why I still like SCBW more than any other game, because it's fun and it's even fun to be part of "the dead community".
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On December 31 2010 19:40 dogabutila wrote:
Get it straight, Teamliquid.net is NOT a bw site. It is a site for Team Liquid. That professional SC2 team you may or may not know about.
Dude look at the banner.. What's written under the "teamliquid" ?
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On January 01 2011 00:32 Gecko[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On January 01 2011 00:00 MrCon wrote:
[
Haa thanx for this post..I was shocked reading OP because it sounds really too elitist (in a bad, bad way).
I'm 36, I bought sc and bw the day of release and I follow pro scene since Boxer, and I still like sc2, I love Foxer's sick marine micro. I think broodwar is better, and even if I played broodwar for like 8 years every weekend doing lans with friends, I still have fun with sc2. But this doesn't make me spit on some group of people "who don't understand".
I don't know how sc2 will turn out, but starcraft wasn't exactly perfect at release, and if the expansions brings some cool units with potential (like reaver or lurkers) it could become a great game.
If I were as elitist as you, I'd say you miss being part of a small "underground" group that hate to see his passion becoming a mainstream thing because he can't define himself anymore as undergound. But with age and maturity you'll understand that you don't need something like that to define yourself and you'll accept that people like different things without them being wrong.
It's not about being elitist at all. I can see what the point of the author is, so I don't fully agree with him. I never really cared for SCII before the Beta started. I got a key for the first wave, played a bunch of games (200-300) and the game never caught me. I stopped caring again, since it isn't fun - for me. I respect other people and their opinions. A thing I could observe was the vast majority switching, leaving you behind and start to characterize you as some stubborn broodwar-die-hard, that is just too old and conservative to accept changes. Then again the community somehow transformed in great parts, always telling stories how SCII would help the foreign E-Sports scene and how this game would own everything. I disagree. I don't see any chances for the e-Sports scene (whatever this is) to grow because of SCII being hyped all over the place. People start to give up their work and focus on SCII only, or at least pretend to do so. If they want to, I don't stop them. What really gets to me, and that's the point I will never ever understand, is why people still come to what's left of broodwar and saying our community would be dead, and at the same time saying that they are a bit bored by SCII for now. But all will eventually change the game needs still to be balanced bla bla bla, more add-ons coming, bla bla bla, so join the new SCII hype and get over your old game bla bla bla. Hell I don't want to, and I even don't want to hear about the game, because I do not care, not because I hate it. It's a good game, but I have a hard time to even compare it to my beloved Broodwar. The point what most people miss is that a game should be fun, not e-sports or a money making job that pays you off well enough to actually spend the rest of your life in luxury or whatever. It's not about what the majority thinks, it's what about gives you fun in your spare time. That's at least my opinion, and that's why I still like SCBW more than any other game, because it's fun and it's even fun to be part of "the dead community".
OP is painting everyone that likes SC2 as an ignorant elitists and claims only people that haven't played BW could be stupid enough to like SC2 ... which is what makes him an elitist. No-one cares that he doesn't like SC2, it's just that he doesn't like SC2 in every thread he posts in and insults the people that do like the game better than BW.
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Calgary25996 Posts
On December 31 2010 18:40 Zapdos_Smithh wrote:
I began to type this just as a reply to the post, but I would rather blog it so more people actually read this rather than just looking at the length and omitting it altogether.
Dumb. I will close this every time. Can you imagine if people did this for every comment they wrote? "Oh, I'll just open a new thread so more people read it."
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EPT
