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Evolutionary drive of homosexuality - Page 12

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Igakusei
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States610 Posts
November 30 2010 03:41 GMT
#221
On November 30 2010 12:31 eshlow wrote:
I don't understand how threads can go on this long arguing about something that is so simple.

Twin studies indicate that if one of two who is homosexual 50% of the time the other is homosexual. This is referenced in multiple studies on homozygous twins.

This indicates that there are certainly genetics factors involved with the expression of homosexuality in humans, and that there are also environmental factors.

If environmental factors did not matter and it was genetically determined then if one of the twins was homosexual there would be 100% chance that the other twin would be homosexual.


Therefore, saying someone's sexual orientation is a matter of choice is part correct, and saying someone's sexual orientation is genetically determined is part correct.

Neither is fully correct. The problem is we haven't determined when, what, how, etc. are the determining environmental factors that influence the development of homosexuality. However, we have isolated some of the genetic components which is what everyone wants to jump on and proclaim that homosexuality is not a choice and genetic. This is a gross misinterpretation of the data.

As always, nature tends to be a middle ground and does not polarize. Most things are a combination of genetic factors and environmental influence.


I thought everyone knew this, but I guess this thread has gotten off track in the last page or two because clearly some people don't.

The thread is supposed to be about how the genetic factors for homosexuality can propagate given the obvious selection against them. You can't simply answer this by saying "oh, there are also environmental factors." Even if 90% of people born with every genetic factor predisposing them towards homosexuality end up heterosexual due to environmental factors, those genetic factors will eventually disappear unless there is some selective mechanism protecting them. THAT is what we're supposed to be talking about.
eshlow
Profile Joined June 2008
United States5210 Posts
November 30 2010 03:41 GMT
#222
Here's a fairly in depth analysis of this type of stuff if people wanted a review and analysis of ACTUAL scientific data so far.... instead of randomly arguing out their butts.

http://www.tim-taylor.com/papers/twin_studies/index.html
Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength
mcc
Profile Joined October 2010
Czech Republic4646 Posts
November 30 2010 03:41 GMT
#223
On November 30 2010 12:34 AlexDeLarge wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 12:31 eshlow wrote:
I don't understand how threads can go on this long arguing about something that is so simple.

Twin studies indicate that if one of two who is homosexual 50% of the time the other is homosexual. This is referenced in multiple studies on homozygous twins.

This indicates that there are certainly genetics factors involved with the expression of homosexuality in humans, and that there are also environmental factors.

If environmental factors did not matter and it was genetically determined then if one of the twins was homosexual there would be 100% chance that the other twin would be homosexual.


Therefore, saying someone's sexual orientation is a matter of choice is part correct, and saying someone's sexual orientation is genetically determined is part correct.

Neither is fully correct. The problem is we haven't determined when, what, how, etc. are the determining environmental factors that influence the development of homosexuality. However, we have isolated some of the genetic components which is what everyone wants to jump on and proclaim that homosexuality is not a choice and genetic. This is a gross misinterpretation of the data.

As always, nature tends to be a middle ground and does not polarize. Most things are a combination of genetic factors and environmental influence.


Well there you go, you just provided the scientific proof to back up my train of thought. Glad to see i was spot on regarding the subject, even though i put in minimal effort into deconstructing it.


No you were not, because environmental does not mean societal. Nearly noone argues that only genetic factors influence it, more people argue that most(like close to 90-100%) of the influence is done before we are born, these are two different concepts. If I wanted to actually put a number to it my guess would be something like 90.
eshlow
Profile Joined June 2008
United States5210 Posts
November 30 2010 03:45 GMT
#224
On November 30 2010 12:36 mcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 12:31 eshlow wrote:
I don't understand how threads can go on this long arguing about something that is so simple.

Twin studies indicate that if one of two who is homosexual 50% of the time the other is homosexual. This is referenced in multiple studies on homozygous twins.

This indicates that there are certainly genetics factors involved with the expression of homosexuality in humans, and that there are also environmental factors.

If environmental factors did not matter and it was genetically determined then if one of the twins was homosexual there would be 100% chance that the other twin would be homosexual.


Therefore, saying someone's sexual orientation is a matter of choice is part correct, and saying someone's sexual orientation is genetically determined is part correct.

Neither is fully correct. The problem is we haven't determined when, what, how, etc. are the determining environmental factors that influence the development of homosexuality. However, we have isolated some of the genetic components which is what everyone wants to jump on and proclaim that homosexuality is not a choice and genetic. This is a gross misinterpretation of the data.

As always, nature tends to be a middle ground and does not polarize. Most things are a combination of genetic factors and environmental influence.


Also it should be noted that environmental factors do not equal choice, and in this case it seems it is far from that, see those twin studies.


On November 30 2010 12:38 Almania wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 12:31 eshlow wrote:
If environmental factors did not matter and it was genetically determined then if one of the twins was homosexual there would be 100% chance that the other twin would be homosexual.

Therefore, saying someone's sexual orientation is a matter of choice is part correct, and saying someone's sexual orientation is genetically determined is part correct.


Environmental factors does not mean choice. It means things like childhood experiences, diet, etc.

If there's ever a choice for you to make, you're not homosexual but bisexual. At least that's how I view it..


I would argue against that... to a point.

We do make choices when we are younger (albeit not very informed), and how we were raised probably does play a role as well especially likely dietary factors.

Note that monozygotic divergent twins who were raised apart do show more different than the ones that are raised together
Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength
R1CH
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Netherlands10341 Posts
November 30 2010 03:49 GMT
#225
Nothing good seems to be coming from this thread aside from unsourced or misinformed opinion and borderline flaming. If you want to continue, please use the gay starcraft players thread, but pay attention to the OP for what the thread is about.
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