• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:03
CEST 12:03
KST 19:03
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy18ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
$5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy2GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding3Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win0[BSL22] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6
StarCraft 2
General
Quebec Clan still alive ? BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info
Tourneys
GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding $5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion BW General Discussion so ive been playing broodwar for a week straight. Gypsy to Korea Pros React To: JaeDong vs Queen
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro24 Group F [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL22] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CEST [BSL22] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CEST
Strategy
Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game Nintendo Switch Thread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Loot Boxes—Emotions, And Why…
TrAiDoS
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Electronics
mantequilla
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1795 users

Evolutionary drive of homosexuality - Page 12

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 10 11 12 All
Igakusei
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States610 Posts
November 30 2010 03:41 GMT
#221
On November 30 2010 12:31 eshlow wrote:
I don't understand how threads can go on this long arguing about something that is so simple.

Twin studies indicate that if one of two who is homosexual 50% of the time the other is homosexual. This is referenced in multiple studies on homozygous twins.

This indicates that there are certainly genetics factors involved with the expression of homosexuality in humans, and that there are also environmental factors.

If environmental factors did not matter and it was genetically determined then if one of the twins was homosexual there would be 100% chance that the other twin would be homosexual.


Therefore, saying someone's sexual orientation is a matter of choice is part correct, and saying someone's sexual orientation is genetically determined is part correct.

Neither is fully correct. The problem is we haven't determined when, what, how, etc. are the determining environmental factors that influence the development of homosexuality. However, we have isolated some of the genetic components which is what everyone wants to jump on and proclaim that homosexuality is not a choice and genetic. This is a gross misinterpretation of the data.

As always, nature tends to be a middle ground and does not polarize. Most things are a combination of genetic factors and environmental influence.


I thought everyone knew this, but I guess this thread has gotten off track in the last page or two because clearly some people don't.

The thread is supposed to be about how the genetic factors for homosexuality can propagate given the obvious selection against them. You can't simply answer this by saying "oh, there are also environmental factors." Even if 90% of people born with every genetic factor predisposing them towards homosexuality end up heterosexual due to environmental factors, those genetic factors will eventually disappear unless there is some selective mechanism protecting them. THAT is what we're supposed to be talking about.
eshlow
Profile Joined June 2008
United States5210 Posts
November 30 2010 03:41 GMT
#222
Here's a fairly in depth analysis of this type of stuff if people wanted a review and analysis of ACTUAL scientific data so far.... instead of randomly arguing out their butts.

http://www.tim-taylor.com/papers/twin_studies/index.html
Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength
mcc
Profile Joined October 2010
Czech Republic4646 Posts
November 30 2010 03:41 GMT
#223
On November 30 2010 12:34 AlexDeLarge wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 12:31 eshlow wrote:
I don't understand how threads can go on this long arguing about something that is so simple.

Twin studies indicate that if one of two who is homosexual 50% of the time the other is homosexual. This is referenced in multiple studies on homozygous twins.

This indicates that there are certainly genetics factors involved with the expression of homosexuality in humans, and that there are also environmental factors.

If environmental factors did not matter and it was genetically determined then if one of the twins was homosexual there would be 100% chance that the other twin would be homosexual.


Therefore, saying someone's sexual orientation is a matter of choice is part correct, and saying someone's sexual orientation is genetically determined is part correct.

Neither is fully correct. The problem is we haven't determined when, what, how, etc. are the determining environmental factors that influence the development of homosexuality. However, we have isolated some of the genetic components which is what everyone wants to jump on and proclaim that homosexuality is not a choice and genetic. This is a gross misinterpretation of the data.

As always, nature tends to be a middle ground and does not polarize. Most things are a combination of genetic factors and environmental influence.


Well there you go, you just provided the scientific proof to back up my train of thought. Glad to see i was spot on regarding the subject, even though i put in minimal effort into deconstructing it.


No you were not, because environmental does not mean societal. Nearly noone argues that only genetic factors influence it, more people argue that most(like close to 90-100%) of the influence is done before we are born, these are two different concepts. If I wanted to actually put a number to it my guess would be something like 90.
eshlow
Profile Joined June 2008
United States5210 Posts
November 30 2010 03:45 GMT
#224
On November 30 2010 12:36 mcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 12:31 eshlow wrote:
I don't understand how threads can go on this long arguing about something that is so simple.

Twin studies indicate that if one of two who is homosexual 50% of the time the other is homosexual. This is referenced in multiple studies on homozygous twins.

This indicates that there are certainly genetics factors involved with the expression of homosexuality in humans, and that there are also environmental factors.

If environmental factors did not matter and it was genetically determined then if one of the twins was homosexual there would be 100% chance that the other twin would be homosexual.


Therefore, saying someone's sexual orientation is a matter of choice is part correct, and saying someone's sexual orientation is genetically determined is part correct.

Neither is fully correct. The problem is we haven't determined when, what, how, etc. are the determining environmental factors that influence the development of homosexuality. However, we have isolated some of the genetic components which is what everyone wants to jump on and proclaim that homosexuality is not a choice and genetic. This is a gross misinterpretation of the data.

As always, nature tends to be a middle ground and does not polarize. Most things are a combination of genetic factors and environmental influence.


Also it should be noted that environmental factors do not equal choice, and in this case it seems it is far from that, see those twin studies.


On November 30 2010 12:38 Almania wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 12:31 eshlow wrote:
If environmental factors did not matter and it was genetically determined then if one of the twins was homosexual there would be 100% chance that the other twin would be homosexual.

Therefore, saying someone's sexual orientation is a matter of choice is part correct, and saying someone's sexual orientation is genetically determined is part correct.


Environmental factors does not mean choice. It means things like childhood experiences, diet, etc.

If there's ever a choice for you to make, you're not homosexual but bisexual. At least that's how I view it..


I would argue against that... to a point.

We do make choices when we are younger (albeit not very informed), and how we were raised probably does play a role as well especially likely dietary factors.

Note that monozygotic divergent twins who were raised apart do show more different than the ones that are raised together
Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength
R1CH
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Netherlands10342 Posts
November 30 2010 03:49 GMT
#225
Nothing good seems to be coming from this thread aside from unsourced or misinformed opinion and borderline flaming. If you want to continue, please use the gay starcraft players thread, but pay attention to the OP for what the thread is about.
AdministratorTwitter: @R1CH_TL
TL+ Member
Prev 1 10 11 12 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 57m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 233
ProTech86
SortOf 42
StarCraft: Brood War
Killer 1532
Jaedong 660
Zeus 288
Mini 250
Hyun 226
Stork 170
Soma 94
EffOrt 77
hero 64
Hm[arnc] 61
[ Show more ]
ToSsGirL 61
Sharp 52
Rush 50
ggaemo 46
sSak 43
Backho 40
ZerO 39
Soulkey 38
Shinee 27
Nal_rA 22
Bale 20
scan(afreeca) 18
Barracks 17
NaDa 14
Sacsri 12
GoRush 12
Mong 12
Movie 11
soO 9
ajuk12(nOOB) 9
Sexy 5
Dota 2
Gorgc3743
XcaliburYe769
XaKoH 533
NeuroSwarm99
canceldota71
League of Legends
JimRising 430
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss1342
allub180
edward90
Other Games
singsing1070
crisheroes314
Mew2King52
ZerO(Twitch)9
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV351
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 9
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 30
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• escodisco172
• iopq 14
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1036
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Team League
57m
RotterdaM233
CranKy Ducklings
23h 57m
WardiTV Team League
1d
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 4h
BSL
1d 8h
n0maD vs perroflaco
TerrOr vs ZZZero
MadiNho vs WolFix
DragOn vs LancerX
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 23h
WardiTV Team League
2 days
OSC
2 days
BSL
2 days
Sterling vs Azhi_Dahaki
Napoleon vs Mazur
Jimin vs Nesh
spx vs Strudel
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
GSL
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Elite League 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W2
IPSL Spring 2026
Escore Tournament S2: W3
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
RSL Revival: Season 5
WardiTV TLMC #16
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.