• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 17:06
CEST 23:06
KST 06:06
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash8[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy16ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6Aligulac acquired by REPLAYMAN.com/Stego Research8Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool49Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win4
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy Aligulac acquired by REPLAYMAN.com/Stego Research Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2) herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Season 4 announced for March-April StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) WardiTV Mondays World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
Mutation # 519 Inner Power The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat
Brood War
General
Behind the scenes footage of ASL21 Group E ASL21 General Discussion A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
Azhi's Colosseum - Foreign KCM [ASL21] Ro24 Group F [ASL21] Ro24 Group E 🌍 Weekly Foreign Showmatches
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game General RTS Discussion Thread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2331 users

Evolutionary drive of homosexuality - Page 12

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 10 11 12 All
Igakusei
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States610 Posts
November 30 2010 03:41 GMT
#221
On November 30 2010 12:31 eshlow wrote:
I don't understand how threads can go on this long arguing about something that is so simple.

Twin studies indicate that if one of two who is homosexual 50% of the time the other is homosexual. This is referenced in multiple studies on homozygous twins.

This indicates that there are certainly genetics factors involved with the expression of homosexuality in humans, and that there are also environmental factors.

If environmental factors did not matter and it was genetically determined then if one of the twins was homosexual there would be 100% chance that the other twin would be homosexual.


Therefore, saying someone's sexual orientation is a matter of choice is part correct, and saying someone's sexual orientation is genetically determined is part correct.

Neither is fully correct. The problem is we haven't determined when, what, how, etc. are the determining environmental factors that influence the development of homosexuality. However, we have isolated some of the genetic components which is what everyone wants to jump on and proclaim that homosexuality is not a choice and genetic. This is a gross misinterpretation of the data.

As always, nature tends to be a middle ground and does not polarize. Most things are a combination of genetic factors and environmental influence.


I thought everyone knew this, but I guess this thread has gotten off track in the last page or two because clearly some people don't.

The thread is supposed to be about how the genetic factors for homosexuality can propagate given the obvious selection against them. You can't simply answer this by saying "oh, there are also environmental factors." Even if 90% of people born with every genetic factor predisposing them towards homosexuality end up heterosexual due to environmental factors, those genetic factors will eventually disappear unless there is some selective mechanism protecting them. THAT is what we're supposed to be talking about.
eshlow
Profile Joined June 2008
United States5210 Posts
November 30 2010 03:41 GMT
#222
Here's a fairly in depth analysis of this type of stuff if people wanted a review and analysis of ACTUAL scientific data so far.... instead of randomly arguing out their butts.

http://www.tim-taylor.com/papers/twin_studies/index.html
Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength
mcc
Profile Joined October 2010
Czech Republic4646 Posts
November 30 2010 03:41 GMT
#223
On November 30 2010 12:34 AlexDeLarge wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 12:31 eshlow wrote:
I don't understand how threads can go on this long arguing about something that is so simple.

Twin studies indicate that if one of two who is homosexual 50% of the time the other is homosexual. This is referenced in multiple studies on homozygous twins.

This indicates that there are certainly genetics factors involved with the expression of homosexuality in humans, and that there are also environmental factors.

If environmental factors did not matter and it was genetically determined then if one of the twins was homosexual there would be 100% chance that the other twin would be homosexual.


Therefore, saying someone's sexual orientation is a matter of choice is part correct, and saying someone's sexual orientation is genetically determined is part correct.

Neither is fully correct. The problem is we haven't determined when, what, how, etc. are the determining environmental factors that influence the development of homosexuality. However, we have isolated some of the genetic components which is what everyone wants to jump on and proclaim that homosexuality is not a choice and genetic. This is a gross misinterpretation of the data.

As always, nature tends to be a middle ground and does not polarize. Most things are a combination of genetic factors and environmental influence.


Well there you go, you just provided the scientific proof to back up my train of thought. Glad to see i was spot on regarding the subject, even though i put in minimal effort into deconstructing it.


No you were not, because environmental does not mean societal. Nearly noone argues that only genetic factors influence it, more people argue that most(like close to 90-100%) of the influence is done before we are born, these are two different concepts. If I wanted to actually put a number to it my guess would be something like 90.
eshlow
Profile Joined June 2008
United States5210 Posts
November 30 2010 03:45 GMT
#224
On November 30 2010 12:36 mcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 12:31 eshlow wrote:
I don't understand how threads can go on this long arguing about something that is so simple.

Twin studies indicate that if one of two who is homosexual 50% of the time the other is homosexual. This is referenced in multiple studies on homozygous twins.

This indicates that there are certainly genetics factors involved with the expression of homosexuality in humans, and that there are also environmental factors.

If environmental factors did not matter and it was genetically determined then if one of the twins was homosexual there would be 100% chance that the other twin would be homosexual.


Therefore, saying someone's sexual orientation is a matter of choice is part correct, and saying someone's sexual orientation is genetically determined is part correct.

Neither is fully correct. The problem is we haven't determined when, what, how, etc. are the determining environmental factors that influence the development of homosexuality. However, we have isolated some of the genetic components which is what everyone wants to jump on and proclaim that homosexuality is not a choice and genetic. This is a gross misinterpretation of the data.

As always, nature tends to be a middle ground and does not polarize. Most things are a combination of genetic factors and environmental influence.


Also it should be noted that environmental factors do not equal choice, and in this case it seems it is far from that, see those twin studies.


On November 30 2010 12:38 Almania wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 12:31 eshlow wrote:
If environmental factors did not matter and it was genetically determined then if one of the twins was homosexual there would be 100% chance that the other twin would be homosexual.

Therefore, saying someone's sexual orientation is a matter of choice is part correct, and saying someone's sexual orientation is genetically determined is part correct.


Environmental factors does not mean choice. It means things like childhood experiences, diet, etc.

If there's ever a choice for you to make, you're not homosexual but bisexual. At least that's how I view it..


I would argue against that... to a point.

We do make choices when we are younger (albeit not very informed), and how we were raised probably does play a role as well especially likely dietary factors.

Note that monozygotic divergent twins who were raised apart do show more different than the ones that are raised together
Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength
R1CH
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Netherlands10342 Posts
November 30 2010 03:49 GMT
#225
Nothing good seems to be coming from this thread aside from unsourced or misinformed opinion and borderline flaming. If you want to continue, please use the gay starcraft players thread, but pay attention to the OP for what the thread is about.
AdministratorTwitter: @R1CH_TL
TL+ Member
Prev 1 10 11 12 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 54m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 667
elazer 165
ProTech137
UpATreeSC 106
CosmosSc2 3
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 11854
Soma 254
Rush 146
HiyA 71
IntoTheRainbow 9
Sexy 8
Dota 2
syndereN226
canceldota120
capcasts94
League of Legends
Reynor62
Counter-Strike
fl0m1525
taco 24
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0162
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu423
Other Games
summit1g3250
tarik_tv3133
FrodaN2307
ceh9513
ToD288
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• musti20045 5
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 40
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21221
• WagamamaTV359
League of Legends
• TFBlade1406
Other Games
• imaqtpie1202
• Shiphtur234
Upcoming Events
OSC
2h 54m
RSL Revival
12h 54m
TriGGeR vs Cure
ByuN vs Rogue
Big Brain Bouts
18h 54m
Replay Cast
1d 2h
RSL Revival
1d 12h
Maru vs MaxPax
BSL
1d 21h
RSL Revival
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
BSL
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-31
WardiTV Winter 2026
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 21
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W1
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.