• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 09:23
CET 15:23
KST 23:23
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview12Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info3herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 26-Feb 1): herO, Clem, ByuN, Classic win1RSL Season 4 announced for March-April5Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win3Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8
StarCraft 2
General
HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview StarCraft 2 Not at the Esports World Cup 2026 Weekly Cups (Jan 26-Feb 1): herO, Clem, ByuN, Classic win Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued
Tourneys
HomeStory Cup 28 RSL Season 4 announced for March-April $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) KSL Week 85 OSC Season 13 World Championship
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 510 Safety Violation Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Can someone share very abbreviated BW cliffnotes? Liquipedia.net NEEDS editors for Brood War BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2 [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10
Strategy
Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Path of Exile Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Play, Watch, Drink: Esports …
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1744 users

Evolutionary drive of homosexuality - Page 12

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 10 11 12 All
Igakusei
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States610 Posts
November 30 2010 03:41 GMT
#221
On November 30 2010 12:31 eshlow wrote:
I don't understand how threads can go on this long arguing about something that is so simple.

Twin studies indicate that if one of two who is homosexual 50% of the time the other is homosexual. This is referenced in multiple studies on homozygous twins.

This indicates that there are certainly genetics factors involved with the expression of homosexuality in humans, and that there are also environmental factors.

If environmental factors did not matter and it was genetically determined then if one of the twins was homosexual there would be 100% chance that the other twin would be homosexual.


Therefore, saying someone's sexual orientation is a matter of choice is part correct, and saying someone's sexual orientation is genetically determined is part correct.

Neither is fully correct. The problem is we haven't determined when, what, how, etc. are the determining environmental factors that influence the development of homosexuality. However, we have isolated some of the genetic components which is what everyone wants to jump on and proclaim that homosexuality is not a choice and genetic. This is a gross misinterpretation of the data.

As always, nature tends to be a middle ground and does not polarize. Most things are a combination of genetic factors and environmental influence.


I thought everyone knew this, but I guess this thread has gotten off track in the last page or two because clearly some people don't.

The thread is supposed to be about how the genetic factors for homosexuality can propagate given the obvious selection against them. You can't simply answer this by saying "oh, there are also environmental factors." Even if 90% of people born with every genetic factor predisposing them towards homosexuality end up heterosexual due to environmental factors, those genetic factors will eventually disappear unless there is some selective mechanism protecting them. THAT is what we're supposed to be talking about.
eshlow
Profile Joined June 2008
United States5210 Posts
November 30 2010 03:41 GMT
#222
Here's a fairly in depth analysis of this type of stuff if people wanted a review and analysis of ACTUAL scientific data so far.... instead of randomly arguing out their butts.

http://www.tim-taylor.com/papers/twin_studies/index.html
Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength
mcc
Profile Joined October 2010
Czech Republic4646 Posts
November 30 2010 03:41 GMT
#223
On November 30 2010 12:34 AlexDeLarge wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 12:31 eshlow wrote:
I don't understand how threads can go on this long arguing about something that is so simple.

Twin studies indicate that if one of two who is homosexual 50% of the time the other is homosexual. This is referenced in multiple studies on homozygous twins.

This indicates that there are certainly genetics factors involved with the expression of homosexuality in humans, and that there are also environmental factors.

If environmental factors did not matter and it was genetically determined then if one of the twins was homosexual there would be 100% chance that the other twin would be homosexual.


Therefore, saying someone's sexual orientation is a matter of choice is part correct, and saying someone's sexual orientation is genetically determined is part correct.

Neither is fully correct. The problem is we haven't determined when, what, how, etc. are the determining environmental factors that influence the development of homosexuality. However, we have isolated some of the genetic components which is what everyone wants to jump on and proclaim that homosexuality is not a choice and genetic. This is a gross misinterpretation of the data.

As always, nature tends to be a middle ground and does not polarize. Most things are a combination of genetic factors and environmental influence.


Well there you go, you just provided the scientific proof to back up my train of thought. Glad to see i was spot on regarding the subject, even though i put in minimal effort into deconstructing it.


No you were not, because environmental does not mean societal. Nearly noone argues that only genetic factors influence it, more people argue that most(like close to 90-100%) of the influence is done before we are born, these are two different concepts. If I wanted to actually put a number to it my guess would be something like 90.
eshlow
Profile Joined June 2008
United States5210 Posts
November 30 2010 03:45 GMT
#224
On November 30 2010 12:36 mcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 12:31 eshlow wrote:
I don't understand how threads can go on this long arguing about something that is so simple.

Twin studies indicate that if one of two who is homosexual 50% of the time the other is homosexual. This is referenced in multiple studies on homozygous twins.

This indicates that there are certainly genetics factors involved with the expression of homosexuality in humans, and that there are also environmental factors.

If environmental factors did not matter and it was genetically determined then if one of the twins was homosexual there would be 100% chance that the other twin would be homosexual.


Therefore, saying someone's sexual orientation is a matter of choice is part correct, and saying someone's sexual orientation is genetically determined is part correct.

Neither is fully correct. The problem is we haven't determined when, what, how, etc. are the determining environmental factors that influence the development of homosexuality. However, we have isolated some of the genetic components which is what everyone wants to jump on and proclaim that homosexuality is not a choice and genetic. This is a gross misinterpretation of the data.

As always, nature tends to be a middle ground and does not polarize. Most things are a combination of genetic factors and environmental influence.


Also it should be noted that environmental factors do not equal choice, and in this case it seems it is far from that, see those twin studies.


On November 30 2010 12:38 Almania wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 30 2010 12:31 eshlow wrote:
If environmental factors did not matter and it was genetically determined then if one of the twins was homosexual there would be 100% chance that the other twin would be homosexual.

Therefore, saying someone's sexual orientation is a matter of choice is part correct, and saying someone's sexual orientation is genetically determined is part correct.


Environmental factors does not mean choice. It means things like childhood experiences, diet, etc.

If there's ever a choice for you to make, you're not homosexual but bisexual. At least that's how I view it..


I would argue against that... to a point.

We do make choices when we are younger (albeit not very informed), and how we were raised probably does play a role as well especially likely dietary factors.

Note that monozygotic divergent twins who were raised apart do show more different than the ones that are raised together
Overcoming Gravity: A Systematic Approach to Gymnastics and Bodyweight Strength
R1CH
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Netherlands10341 Posts
November 30 2010 03:49 GMT
#225
Nothing good seems to be coming from this thread aside from unsourced or misinformed opinion and borderline flaming. If you want to continue, please use the gay starcraft players thread, but pay attention to the OP for what the thread is about.
AdministratorTwitter: @R1CH_TL
TL+ Member
Prev 1 10 11 12 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
12:00
#72
WardiTV969
TKL 217
IndyStarCraft 215
Rex171
IntoTheiNu 16
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
TKL 217
IndyStarCraft 215
Rex 171
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 6444
Sea 5955
Flash 2554
Bisu 2276
Horang2 1564
Hyuk 1516
Shuttle 1299
Mini 690
Stork 515
Light 514
[ Show more ]
EffOrt 497
GuemChi 487
Soulkey 471
BeSt 458
Snow 434
ZerO 404
firebathero 303
actioN 302
ggaemo 260
hero 243
Hyun 148
Sharp 125
Mong 101
Aegong 93
Pusan 69
Barracks 64
Killer 58
ToSsGirL 43
JYJ 30
Free 27
Shinee 24
Backho 21
Hm[arnc] 20
Shine 18
scan(afreeca) 15
Terrorterran 15
SilentControl 15
yabsab 14
zelot 12
Sacsri 12
910 11
ajuk12(nOOB) 10
HiyA 10
ivOry 5
Dota 2
singsing3222
qojqva1891
Dendi566
Fuzer 227
XcaliburYe104
Counter-Strike
fl0m2347
olofmeister2080
zeus892
byalli591
edward84
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King83
Other Games
B2W.Neo1458
Liquid`RaSZi1393
hiko429
crisheroes353
Pyrionflax188
Happy135
Hui .127
Sick108
QueenE63
ZerO(Twitch)20
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 7
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota262
League of Legends
• Nemesis9501
• TFBlade840
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
10h 37m
WardiTV Invitational
21h 37m
Replay Cast
1d 9h
The PondCast
1d 19h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 21h
Replay Cast
2 days
RongYI Cup
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-02-02
HSC XXVIII
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS4
Rongyi Cup S3
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W7
Escore Tournament S1: W8
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.