For some reason, I love roaches, even in ZvT. However, it seems to me that roaches cannot counter marines, if the marines have medivacs. I've had a couple of games where I massed roaches (with some lings to even out the gas, and maybe a few mutas just to mess with the medivacs), and I outbased the guy, he let my macro kick in, etc., and I just went nuts. I even out-upgraded the guy in the most recent game. My plan was to tech to Ultras, which usually win the the game if I can get more than 3 or so. Then, the marines just overrun my roaches. So, is the ONLY counter to marines (not including final tech units) banelings? Are roaches just useless after medivacs come out? Granted, I should use burrow a little better, but...do marine and medivacs really beat roaches? For some reason, that just seems backwards to me.

English

United States475 Posts

November 26 2010 04:45 GMT

I think a replay would help

Avril_Lavigne

United States446 Posts

November 26 2010 04:47 GMT

they counter marines but not marines paired with medivacs, you're gonna need a larger force to beat that. that's like does roaches paired with baneling beat marines with medivacs? it's the same thing. Anyway, yes banelings are just about the best unit to counter mass marine medivac. they're even better than ultras imo. Ultras are a waste of resources and can sometimes cos you the game if you don't have a 2k min 800 gas income.

StrifeCro

United States69 Posts

November 26 2010 04:48 GMT

theres 0 units in sc2 of all 3 races that counter marines that aren't AOE units by themselves. i'm even almost sure that theres 0 combinations of non aoe units that counter marines equal costs mixing together.

ev8

United States112 Posts

November 26 2010 04:56 GMT

terran building MM while letting you macro? infestor/bling/pinch of roach if you have the warren. bon apetit

z00t

Australia976 Posts

November 26 2010 05:00 GMT

Roaches have slightly shorter range than Marines, and Marines are also smaller than Roaches, so you'll have more Marines attacking than Roaches in any given square area of space.

It's actually a kind of interesting relationship because while Roaches are good against Marines, they can be overwhelmed.

Just remember that DPS is not the Roach's forte; so against Terran infantry you're going to need support. Personally, I wouldn't recommend Roaches at all against a dedicated Terran infantry army. Get Roaches in an emergency if you have to, but I'd rely on Speedlings + Banes + Muta. Only the best Terrans can micro like Foxer, so don't worry about Banes performing poorly against Marines

sparkyk24

49 Posts

November 26 2010 05:08 GMT

On November 26 2010 14:00 z00t wrote:
Roaches have slightly shorter range than Marines, and Marines are also smaller than Roaches, so you'll have more Marines attacking than Roaches in any given square area of space.

It's actually a kind of interesting relationship because while Roaches are good against Marines, they can be overwhelmed.

Just remember that DPS is not the Roach's forte; so against Terran infantry you're going to need support. Personally, I wouldn't recommend Roaches at all against a dedicated Terran infantry army. Get Roaches in an emergency if you have to, but I'd rely on Speedlings + Banes + Muta. Only the best Terrans can micro like Foxer, so don't worry about Banes performing poorly against Marines

Thanks. My worries are largely concerned around my inability to uber micro, partially due to skill and partially due to my computer. But honestly....I just played a game where I owned a dude with lings.

And to the guy who doesn't like ultras...I never go ultras unless I have at least 3 bases, and I'm pretty uncomfortable with it if I don't have 4. But banelings, imho, aren't as good of game finishers late game. Because you destroy their army, and most of your is destroyed. With ultras, you destroy their army, then destroy their base ^_^ But ultras, banes, lings, and mutas is what I just demolished a guy with. Okay, I'm convinced. I'll train my banelings better :p

Enervate

United States1769 Posts

November 26 2010 05:09 GMT

Why does it seem backwards to you that marine and medivac would beat roaches? Roaches are cheap low tech units. They do fine against marines in low numbers. But a medivac is a t3 unit. And mass marines are extremely cost-effective dps-wise. The counter to massable weak units is AoE units, so why not go banelings? Roaches aren't useless. Just use infestors and banelings with them, if you really want to use roaches. Although, it would probably be better to use mutas instead.

Subversion

South Africa3627 Posts

November 26 2010 05:10 GMT

The short answer is that in large numbers, no.

Massive amounts of marines with stim and medivac support are cost-effective against Roaches.

A good composition against this heavy Marine-medivac style is Roach-baneling with good creep spread. Thats what the Koreans favour.

z00t

Australia976 Posts

November 26 2010 05:13 GMT

#10

On November 26 2010 14:09 Enervate wrote:
Although, it would probably be better to use mutas instead.

Although Mutas can be good for picking off the trickle of Marine/Medivac reinforcements, or for keeping the Terran player in their base and unable to push out; I definitely wouldn't recommend Mutalisks as a straight-up counter to Marine/Medivac

MementoMori

Canada419 Posts

November 26 2010 05:19 GMT

#11

On November 26 2010 14:00 z00t wrote:
Roaches have slightly shorter range than Marines, and Marines are also smaller than Roaches, so you'll have more Marines attacking than Roaches in any given square area of space.

Yeah I think this is the whole reason really. A roach can pretty easily beat 2 marines, so for cost it seems ok. But when you get in to big battles, there are just so many more marines shooting than roaches because so many more can fit in to an area. But of course, banelings solves that issue! Even if you don't kill a lot of them they at least get them to spread out, which is very needed for roaches to be effective