EPTOn September 10 2010 10:00 dras wrote:
Have you seem the MLG streams? They're pretty insane.
Have you seem the MLG streams? They're pretty insane.
i watched the halo stream actually
i was thoroughly unimpressed
Is Starcraft the hardest E-Sport? - Page 4
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billyX333
United States1360 Posts
i watched the halo stream actually i was thoroughly unimpressed | ||
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hazz
United Kingdom570 Posts
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robertdinh
803 Posts
Quake1 is probably the most skillful computer game around at top level play, but the argument could also be made for BW, they are both extremely awesome in different ways so it's hard to truly compare them against each other. SSBM and some fighting games have a legitimate reason to be on that poll, a lot of those other games are pretty much jokes compared to bw and quake though. | ||
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Bear4188
United States1797 Posts
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pallad
Poland1958 Posts
On September 10 2010 10:00 Tabbris wrote: Who the hell thinks sc2 is harder than BW? me | ||
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Coulthard
Greece3359 Posts
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Vz0
Canada378 Posts
There are people with gifted hand dexterity (aka skill) and there are people with gifted intellect (aka strategy). How "hard" this game is, is HUGELY dependent on the person. Someone with great intellect , for example "Stephen Hawking"(Lets just assume he is intellectually gifted, this is an example, whether or not this is true is irrelevant to my point) may not have succeeded if he had devoted himself to table tennis. Someone with great skill, for example "Michael Jordan" may not have succeeded had he devoted himself to Counter Strike. I know everyone will jump on me and flame OMG MAN SC1 IS THE HARDEST AND BEST GAME EVA !!! I am just spitting the logical truth. You can hold your own opinions if you wish to ignorant. and to be on topic; based on the choices given, I would definitely agree starcraft broodwar is the most difficult to master. Simply because it is a game based soley on your own ability where as almost every other game(on that list) endorses teamwork. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 10 2010 10:26 iEchoic wrote: You can't provide 'evidence' that something is harder than something else, it's entirely a matter of opinion. I just don't consider what this game takes to be 'hard', just a lot of sacrifice. CoD, for instance, is about teamwork and strategy, and requires less mechanical skill (because everyone dies nearly instantly). I think that is what makes a game hard. Developing teamwork and strategy is very hard. In a game so much about mechanics like SC, the amount of time you put in is paramount - and that's not hard to do. I'm not saying the game sucks or it's not fun, just that I don't think it's the ideal candidate for an e-sport. The thing is that many will argue that the strategic aspect of Starcraft is not lessened compared to a game like CoD--and that the mechanical demand is strictly in addition to the difficulty of developing solid strategy. | ||
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synapse
China13814 Posts
On September 10 2010 10:17 jdwashere wrote: Psychically: BW Mentally: SC2 This is subject to change. You mean: Physically: BW Mentally: BW Everything else: BW | ||
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Tabbris
Bangladesh2839 Posts
 seeing how you signed up just to say that, care to explain why? | ||
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sooch
Canada299 Posts
On September 10 2010 10:14 iEchoic wrote: SC2 isn't even close to the hardest E-Sport and neither was SC1. When people play a videogame 12-14 hours a day, it stops being about talent and starts being about who is willing to give up more of their life to compete. You don't benefit from playing that much on many games (i.e. shooters). I don't really consider that hard, just a big sacrifice. Real sports have physical limits that make them 'hard' to compete in. So you don't think that it is in fact TALENT that separates players when all the players are practicing as much as physically possible (i.e. only breaking to eat and sleep)? Any extra minutes of practice on top of the 14 hours already used would surely have such diminishing returns that the biggest factor dividing the top from the top of the top would be some kind of innate game sense or talent. Your argument is backwards. When people practice very little, an increase in practice time from 1 to 2 hours a day is a monumental 100% increase in time spent playing the game, meaning that any natural talent would probably be eclipsed by practice time. | ||
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SichuanPanda
Canada1542 Posts
On September 10 2010 10:37 HardcoreBilly wrote: It is. Sorry, in gaming, that's one of integral part of determining skill. Do people honestly think some serious theoretical equations are going through a good player's mind when he's playing SC2? At the top level, most of the actions are based purely off of instincts. 'The ability to click 10 rax faster than your opponent'. Yea and if you want to say that then its safe to say that every video game ever made is 'just clicking buttons'. Well guess what it is, but if you click those buttons faster, and in a better combination than someone else, thats skill. You can say the same thing for any sport. Hockey is 'just' shooting a puck in a net, soccer is 'just' the same thing but with a bigger net and a ball, Tennis is 'just' two people shooting a ball back and forth with rackets. You can say it about it anything, the actions of most competitive sports in and of themselves are simple actions, but the speed, timing, accuracy, and order that the professional do those actions in is what determines skill. So in a video game where the keyboard is the primary input device how fast you push buttons is very important. | ||
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Snowfield
1289 Posts
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PokePill
United States1048 Posts
Oh look the MLG players are all taking it incredibly seriously and calling out where players are, "L2, L2 1 shot!" Amazing intense team work and skill! | ||
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
People like to bash on games that are mechanically easy, but the interesting thing is being mechanically easy actually makes them more strategical. Once mechanics are mostly out of the picture, people have to exploit strategical options for a win instead of exploiting mechanical superiority. Think of it like chess - the importance of mechanical skill plays 0 part in chess skill (i.e. how fast you move the pieces). If chess suddenly became played in real-time, it wouldn't be dominated by great thinkers, it would be dominated by 15-23 year old kids who practice placing pieces as fast as they can all day. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 10 2010 10:42 iEchoic wrote: Think of it like chess - the importance of mechanical skill plays 0 part in chess skill (i.e. how fast you move the pieces). If chess suddenly became played in real-time, it wouldn't be dominated by great thinkers, it would be dominated by 15-23 year old kids who practice placing pieces as fast as they can all day. And you don't believe that at the top levels the kids who place pieces fast wouldn't *also* be great thinkers? There are levels at which mechanical superiority is the relevant factor in winning games--but at the highest levels, where mechanical gains see diminishing returns, where we see players like Flash and Jaedong, and where the term "e-sport" is most relevant, I don't see it being an exceedingly relevant factor, even in Starcraft. | ||
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Tabbris
Bangladesh2839 Posts
On September 10 2010 10:42 PokePill wrote: I am positive anyone that didn't list Brood War has not played it. Anyone who has played it and hasn't listed it is one of those people who just watch SC2 HD/Husky youtube videos in the entirety of their spare time and think both game's are easy because it looks easy. Oh look the MLG players are all taking it incredibly seriously and calling out where players are, "L2, L2 1 shot!" Amazing intense team work and skill! Thats a really arrogant view man. Quake CS and even SSBM are pretty hard games. i would put it close to BW. | ||
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
On September 10 2010 10:44 TheYango wrote: And you don't believe that at the top levels the kids who place pieces fast wouldn't *also* be great thinkers? If they were great thinkers, why wouldn't they dominate the game prior to the change? | ||
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Sadistx
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
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SichuanPanda
Canada1542 Posts
On September 10 2010 10:44 Tabbris wrote: Thats a really arrogant view man. Quake CS and even SSBM are pretty hard games. i would put it close to BW. Given that since the end of 2v2 in Korea (a long time ago) BW, and now SC2 has been purely about 1v1 brackets its really not a fair comparison of an RTS 1v1 vs (lets take CS as example) RTS 6v6 - there is a the team element and that is completely different kind of skill than what is in BW. So essentially both could be on par in terms of difficulty, but they are very different games, a good CS player, Quake player (FPS in general) would never be a good (read: pro) RTS player, and same for RTS players playing FPS. | ||
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