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Dune 2! (:
On September 10 2010 10:10 dras wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 10:07 DaCruise wrote:
SC2 will soon be the hardest e-sport if not allready.
Why? you may ask. Cause the competition is much, much higher than other games due the vast amount of players. The micro demands for BW are like exponentially higher though. Remains to be seen. The APM (micro and macro) demands are.. what your opponent forces them for you to be. BW apm demands were ridiculously low in its early stages of international competitive play.
If things go well, the easier handling of SC2 could allow players to improve the complexity of their micro and macro battles to levels never seen before in any game. Better map pool is a must, though. The current prevalence of 10-minute games off of 1 base looks just silly.
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Psychically: BW
Mentally: SC2
This is subject to change.
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The entire poll is just wrong. It depends on your talents. Some players are extremely good at reaction and have a 3rd sense in shooters so obviously for them bw would be much harder.
Some are super hyperactive and love repetition for them quake would be much much harder.
For me its def Quake, hell i cant even play that stuff >20mins without heavy headache. So its obviously much much "harder" for me than BW could ever be.
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On September 10 2010 10:14 iEchoic wrote:
SC2 isn't even close to the hardest E-Sport and neither was SC1. When people play a videogame 12-14 hours a day, it stops being about talent and starts being about who is willing to give up more of their life to compete. You don't benefit from playing that much on many games (i.e. shooters). I don't really consider that hard, just a big sacrifice.
Real sports have physical limits that make them 'hard' to compete in.
You fail to provide any evidence to suggest that SC1 isnt "even close to the hardest esport", making your post pretty redundant, considering you acknowledge that people have to train on it for 12-14 hours a day to hold a high enough standard of play.
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On September 10 2010 10:14 iEchoic wrote:
SC2 isn't even close to the hardest E-Sport and neither was SC1. When people play a videogame 12-14 hours a day, it stops being about talent and starts being about who is willing to give up more of their life to compete. You don't benefit from playing that much on many games (i.e. shooters). I don't really consider that hard, just a big sacrifice.
Hahaha what? That's what makes it hard, the fact that it takes so much practice to be good at it. How does talent = hard? Imagine a game completely based on talent; it's the easiest game in the world because the guy with the most "talent" wins every time.
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Guy here says "i would have to say resident evil remake you never know what could happen"
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On September 10 2010 10:00 dras wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 09:56 QuothTheRaven wrote:
To even suggest that Halo is more difficult than Quake, let alone SCBW, is ridiculous. Have you seem the MLG streams? They're pretty insane.
you wouldn't say that if you had ever seen a pro quake duel. the nature of thumbsticks on a controller make it impossible to turn past a certain speed. mice are only limited by your handspeed. plus movement in quake is non-trivial, and add on top of that a pretty intricate theory for map control and controlling the item respawn time (and having to time at least 3 items on separate timers mentally, and even more if you want to deny weapons), and quake is infinitely more difficult than any halo game could hope to be.
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BW no doubt; I think a more interesting question is whether WC3 or SC2 is harder.
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On September 10 2010 10:14 iEchoic wrote:
SC2 isn't even close to the hardest E-Sport and neither was SC1. When people play a videogame 12-14 hours a day, it stops being about talent and starts being about who is willing to give up more of their life to compete. You don't benefit from playing that much on many games (i.e. shooters). I don't really consider that hard, just a big sacrifice.
Real sports have physical limits that make them 'hard' to compete in.
You can still train your physical limits (a 10 minute mile to a 5 minute one) just like training your video game skills.
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On September 10 2010 10:18 deth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 10:14 iEchoic wrote:
SC2 isn't even close to the hardest E-Sport and neither was SC1. When people play a videogame 12-14 hours a day, it stops being about talent and starts being about who is willing to give up more of their life to compete. You don't benefit from playing that much on many games (i.e. shooters). I don't really consider that hard, just a big sacrifice.
Real sports have physical limits that make them 'hard' to compete in. You fail to provide any evidence to suggest that SC1 isnt "even close to the hardest esport", making your post pretty redundant, considering you acknowledge that people have to train on it for 12-14 hours a day to hold a high enough standard of play.
You can't provide 'evidence' that something is harder than something else, it's entirely a matter of opinion. I just don't consider what this game takes to be 'hard', just a lot of sacrifice. CoD, for instance, is about teamwork and strategy, and requires less mechanical skill (because everyone dies nearly instantly). I think that is what makes a game hard. Developing teamwork and strategy is very hard. In a game so much about mechanics like SC, the amount of time you put in is paramount - and that's not hard to do.
I'm not saying the game sucks or it's not fun, just that I don't think it's the ideal candidate for an e-sport.
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i literally laughed out loud irl when I saw WoW Arena on the list
hahahahaha, you're a funny man
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On September 10 2010 10:17 jdwashere wrote:
Psychically: BW
Mentally: SC2
This is subject to change.
Agree
I also like how some ppl say BW is harder to play than SC2 as a good thing like if the ability to click 10 rax manualy faster than your oponent is a great skill to have.
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On September 10 2010 10:28 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
i literally laughed out loud irl when I saw WoW Arena on the list
hahahahaha, you're a funny man
Comedy option.
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I think if you made this poll on a wc3 board SC1 would still win.
For me it is close between quake and SC1, voted SC1 though.
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Starcraft: Brood War yes, I think it's because it's just one of the oldest games that's been around, I think it's the hardest to compete at the top level.
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I think when you're talking about the 'hardest' e-sport, the only intelligent metric is a game's skill ceiling. Otherwise, you're trying to figure out how to compare too many radically different aspects. I think that's also what makes Brood War so exemplary, it having spawned an incredibly competitive pro scene that's still very dynamic more than 10 years after the original game was released. I'd vote for Brood War being the hardest, but I'll be the first to admit that I'm biased. My take on some of the others:
Starcraft 2: Simply too early to get an accurate measure. It's reasonable to conclude that it's not as 'hard' at a basic level as BW is, simply because of the interface/hotkey changes, but to take the argument any further than that I think is jumping the gun.
Warcraft III: Gets a lot of shit on this site due to the (mostly good-natured) rivalry over which is the 'best' Blizzard RTS. Does seem to have a lower skill cap than BW though, due to lower army cap, easier macro mechanics, lack of map changes, and incentive through upkeep mechanic to keep armies small. WC3 is definitely a more micro-oriented game than BW, though, so it could be argued that the skill-set is simply different.
Halo 3: I don't care how good your teamwork is, the nature of the Xbox controller means you're always going to be more limited in potential skill than an equivalent CS team. Plus Halo 3 is bad.
WoW Arena: Also an e-sport that gets a lot of shit from SC players, somewhat undeservedly. The constant patches/gear changes/class changes make it radically different from most esports events, but the amount of skill involved is considerable, regardless. Similar to Halo 3, the mechanics of the game tend to cap certain skill areas, specifically the global cooldown.
Fighting Games: Not my area of expertise or even knowledge, I'm not even qualified to make generalized judgements.
Counter-Strike: Lots of skill in terms of twitch aiming and teamwork, very difficult to compare to the RTS skillset. I do see more depth of strategy and skill potential in an RTS-type game, though. The things that were good in CS 5 years ago are still good; the same can't really be said for BW.
Quake: One of, if not the fastest FPS game, requires a lot of concentration to keep track of spawn times, positioning, and the sort of twitch reaction that's required at a high level. The competitive scene tends to revolve around duel rather than teamplay like CS, so hard to compare the two.
Team Fortress: I don't know of anything that would suggest that TF(2) is harder than CS or Quake.
My (biased) ranking:
SC:BW
Quake
CS
WoW Arena
TF
SC2
Halo 3
Fighting games not ranked, I have no idea. I hear SSBM is the hardest, though.
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On September 10 2010 10:29 Alexstrasas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 10:17 jdwashere wrote:
Psychically: BW
Mentally: SC2
This is subject to change. Agree I also like how some ppl say BW is harder to play than SC2 as a good thing like if the ability to click 10 rax manualy faster than your oponent is a great skill to have.
I like how some ppl say SC2 is harder to play than BW as a true thing like BW doesn't hasn't developed to a stage mentally that far exceeds anything in SC2 at the moment and treat BW as if it's just about who can click faster.
By the way, posting stupid, uninformed comments is also a great skill to have. And so is misquoting memes.
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Brood War is the hardest to play in my opinion, but a lot of it comes from having a very clunky and finicky interface, and a plethora of bugs. This stuff we've all come to love as SC players, but it certainly does make the game harder, far harder than any other on the list purely because that all the others have a rather intuitive play system, I've played all of the games there and got relatively good at each. Far from pro level, but decent enough to understand which one is the hardest to pick up and play from not knowing anything.
My top three would be:
1. BW
2. CS (1.6 not Source)
3. Quake
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On September 10 2010 10:29 Alexstrasas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2010 10:17 jdwashere wrote:
Psychically: BW
Mentally: SC2
This is subject to change. Agree I also like how some ppl say BW is harder to play than SC2 as a good thing like if the ability to click 10 rax manualy faster than your oponent is a great skill to have.
It is. Sorry, in gaming, that's one of integral part of determining skill. Do people honestly think some serious theoretical equations are going through a good player's mind when he's playing SC2? At the top level, most of the actions are based purely off of instincts.
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EPT
