EPTWhy Starcraft is just like Magic: The Gathering - Page 3
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OrtegaPeru
79 Posts
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Carthage
105 Posts
On June 02 2010 13:27 Kultcher wrote: If you follow(ed) high level Magic you'd know that this is simply untrue. It is easy to say that a lot of Magic is based on luck but if you look at the records of some of the top players in the game it's obvious that they have more going for them than luck. It's just like poker, really. High level magic is basically one's ability to not make stupid plays after playing for 10 hours straight, combined with getting some good matchups and some good draws at key moments. They really don't have much more going for them other than being able to go to a whole lot of events. I do follow high level magic. Pros are mostly just confirmation bias. The pro who wins a couple events in a year is still regarded as an amazing player when he wins again 3 years later, despite horrible placings in the many other events they enter. You'll see players like Jon Finkel placing in the top 8 a few times, accompanied with many placings outside of the top 100. You can't dominate magic with play skill like you can with starcraft. The game is simply not designed that way. Poker is different from magic in that it is a game that gives the player a great deal of control that magic cannot offer. It allows the player to minimize their losses with bad hands and maximize their winnings with good hands when the player knows what they are doing. Poker can go on for a very long time as well, letting the better player gradually pull ahead. Magic has no such features outside of deck construction. Constructed tournament Magic is sort of like going to a poker tournament where you only get to play maybe a couple dozen hands. | ||
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Luddite
United States2315 Posts
On June 02 2010 10:59 accaris wrote: Johnny: Johnny is the "combo" or creative player. This player has decided that the game is a form of self-expression where he can display brilliant knowledge of otherwise little-understood game mechanics. Johnny is almost always innovative, uncovering quirky, overlooked interactions between cards (in Starcraft, interactions between units) that result in mind-blowing wins. He doesn't always win, but when he does, it's usually in a totally unexpected and hard-to-counter way. Additionally, the most unique "cheese" strategies probably fall under Johnny. In professional MTG circles, Asian pro-gamers tend to be predominantly Johnnies, although that's not a hard and fast rule. Incidentally, the same thing applies to Starcraft. guys that play like that in Starcraft tend to suck. | ||
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Grend
1600 Posts
The part about Timmy who likes to turtle because he wants to have the most FUN is ... What is the fun in spending 20 minutes making carriers and then roll your opponents? Thats the opposite of fun. Unique builds that are risky =|= korean play | ||
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USn
United States376 Posts
On June 02 2010 14:31 Carthage wrote: High level magic is basically one's ability to not make stupid plays after playing for 10 hours straight, combined with getting some good matchups and some good draws at key moments. They really don't have much more going for them other than being able to go to a whole lot of events. I do follow high level magic. Pros are mostly just confirmation bias. The pro who wins a couple events in a year is still regarded as an amazing player when he wins again 3 years later, despite horrible placings in the many other events they enter. You'll see players like Jon Finkel placing in the top 8 a few times, accompanied with many placings outside of the top 100. Yeah I hear the argument that there must be a ton of skill because the same people have t8ed over and over again... to which you can reply A) Billy Moreno making t8 once is a strong argument against skill B) If you flipped a coin for each match, given the number of tournaments something weird would be going on if there weren't a lot of repeat high finishers. I wanna repeat though that limited is legitly skillful, at least compared to constructed. | ||
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NeoLearner
Belgium1847 Posts
 I agree with the Red/Black for Zerg. Those are my favorite colors in Magic and my favorite race in SC. How do you see the green? Ultralisk?Terran probably a great bit of blue (defense), white (Bio) and some green (Thors, siege tanks and BC's are huge Timmy units). Can't really seem to define Protoss in colors... I guess you could draw this analogy with quite a few games with a lot of depth but I can correlate a lot to this one. | ||
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TheAntZ
Israel6248 Posts
I loved playing around with my MTG cards  | ||
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NeoLearner
Belgium1847 Posts
On June 02 2010 14:56 Grend wrote: The three "archetypes" display a severe lack of understanding about the sc community. The part about Timmy who likes to turtle because he wants to have the most FUN is ... What is the fun in spending 20 minutes making carriers and then roll your opponents? Thats the opposite of fun. I actually have a sc-friend I used to call Timmy because he plays like that. His favorite way of playing would be without an opponent so he can build his base exactly like he wants while building a 200/200 army of "cool" units. None of that bio crap. He plays against the very easy computer, kills him off except the extractor and keeps on playing. He used to spend hours in Starsiege: Tribes building defenses all over the base. I'm thinking of making him a simple UMS / tower defese style map which gives you half an hour to get your tech and defenses up, before waves of enemies advance. I don't think he would actually play anything else. You could call Timmy the 'casual' player if you want. You've probably never seen them because even IF they are on the ladder it would be quite low AND they don't show up on TL. No 'casual' gamers here | ||
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TryThis
Canada1522 Posts
On June 02 2010 11:56 Nevuk wrote: I have a friend who plays with no creatures(technically I think he has 2). He never wins, but he doesn't care. He'll just counter spell the fuck out of you, and if that fails, chainer's edict x8. (I've repeatedly seen him chainer's edict to get rid of suntail hawks) I play a psychatog deck in tournaments back in the day, i did fairly well with a few first places in local ones. it only ran three creature cards. man, i miss the tog. | ||
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moopie
12605 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i45.tinypic.com/25f5c9y.jpg) Anyway, as far as the analogy, it works for a lot strategy games (as some have mentioned). And the gamer archetypes are more varied than that. | ||
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NeoLearner
Belgium1847 Posts
On June 02 2010 16:32 TryThis wrote: I play a psychatog deck in tournaments back in the day, i did fairly well with a few first places in local ones. it only ran three creature cards. man, i miss the tog. Psychatog was a beast Low creature decks, what about Tooth and Nail? It basically had units it actually used (Not counting Sakura Tribe Elder) | ||
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pyr0ma5ta
United States458 Posts
On June 02 2010 11:14 TheYango wrote: Sideboarding is hard to draw an analogy to, because you're not required to play the same build all 3/5 games of a Bo3/Bo5. Sideboarding exists because of the fact that competitive play requires you to play the same deck in a Bo3/Bo5, so that matches don't turn into rock/paper/scissors. I'd say something like a tech switch would be a sideboard. Opponent's going all in Marauder? I'll sideboard into my Void Ray tech. Opponent overcommited to Immortals? I'll side in my devastating | ||
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Nah
Poland50 Posts
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nihoh
Australia978 Posts
To be Spike you have to understand your deck, even if you netdecked it. Great artists steal. The same goes for SC2. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
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omninmo
2349 Posts
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
On June 02 2010 17:19 nihoh wrote: Spike is the one most worthy of respect. To be Spike you have to understand your deck, even if you netdecked it. Great artists steal. The same goes for SC2. The Spikes in the MTG world tend to be extremely easy to hate in my experience. Its the type of gamer i respect the less. PD: Also, Urza block was crappy in both balance and design. The only good thing of it are the memories lol. | ||
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SmoKim
Denmark10305 Posts
On June 02 2010 11:44 fabiano wrote: lol i remember those magic days: me: tap 3 forest and 2 plains, summon some 5/4 beast. friend: counterspell. me: motherfucker, tap 2 forests, 1 plain and summon some 3/2 beast. friend: counterspell. me: what a fag... tap 1 motherfucking forest and 1 plain to summon this beast shit friend: counterspell. me: tap 15 mountains, use Meteor shower friend: tap 1 more plz me: can't, used them all friend: countered me:... brb, getting my axe Curse those Blue players  | ||
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Angryhorse
Sweden387 Posts
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ELA
Denmark4608 Posts
Starcraft =\= MTG, Chess, Yo-Gi-Yu, Bowling.. MTG has more in common with Solitare than Starcraft... And I bet none would like that analogy | ||
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