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Hey guys, as you can probably deduce by the title, this post specifically refers to roaches and infestors. Currently in Starcraft 2, moving burrowed units are treated the same as a moving cloaked unit (think dark templar). In this regard, when a burrowed roach/infestor encounters buildings or objects (EX: destructible rocks) it is unable to navigate underneath it.
While I understand the design philosophy behind it (balance issues), I feel like it is a bit counter intuitive that burrowed units are unable to move under buildings and objects. This was especially highlighted in a recent game that I played where I had 6 burrowed roaches attempting to sneak up into the Terran's main. When the supply depots were raised, I was unable to get inside. However, when the supply depots were lowered, I was able to get in.(counter intuitive!!).
Now as stated above, I understand Blizzard's design philosophy behind this, treating moving burrowed units like moving cloaked units. But I think this might be a little confusing for a spectator, simply because intuition tells us that a burrowed unit should be able to sneak under buildings. (And as stated above, it gets especially confusing when roaches are able to get by a lowered supply depot) Seeing as how Starcraft 2 is built to be a spectator sport, I can't help but feel that perhaps burrowed movement may need to be addressed in some form.
I don't have a proposed change or solution to this, (I'm not entirely sure it needs one) but I wanted to see how you guys feel about Zerg and moving burrowed units.
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I agree that its very unappealing to see these kinda things happen, but I cant think of a single way to change this while retaining balance. Maybe if they couldnt move past burrowed supply depots either, you could basically say that the buildings are 'rooted' into the ground (foundation of the buildings is underground or w/e, and with zerg buildings, LITERALLY rooted), To allow burrowed units to move through any buildings would be pretty imbalanced, basically terran would definitely suffer a lot, and protoss to a lesser extent
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How do you know the buildings don't extend underground O.o For all we know there could be a whole network of stuff down there...
I really dont know, just bs'ing some argument for the heck of it.
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I don't understand why they can burrow move underneath sentry forcefields and not buildings honestly. Atleast let them burrow under raised depots and pylons.
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On March 30 2010 09:25 Alou wrote:
How do you know the buildings don't extend underground O.o For all we know there could be a whole network of stuff down there...
I really dont know, just bs'ing some argument for the heck of it.
Fair enough ^^
But that still doesn't address why burrowed units can move past a lowered depot 
I wouldn't have a problem with the burrowed movement system if it weren't for the depot issue.
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On March 30 2010 09:26 Tinithor wrote:
I don't understand why they can burrow move underneath sentry forcefields and not buildings honestly. Atleast let them burrow under raised depots and pylons.
Yeah my argument wouldnt work for pylons since those hover above the ground...
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I think the issue is mostly balance problems, because burrowed Roaches and Infestors should also theoretically be able to ignore cliffs.
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On March 30 2010 09:27 HDstarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2010 09:25 Alou wrote:
How do you know the buildings don't extend underground O.o For all we know there could be a whole network of stuff down there...
I really dont know, just bs'ing some argument for the heck of it. Fair enough ^^ But that still doesn't address why burrowed units can move past a lowered depot I wouldn't have a problem with the burrowed movement system if it weren't for the depot issue.
Because other units can. It's just a balance thing like you said. Not really logical. But makes the games fun
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Wow, it actually works that way?
I've done more than a dozen underground roach busts now and did not even notice that, I thought they could just move under buildings regardless.
Guess it was just luck that the terran always had his supply depot down
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you bring up an interesting point here, and while i agree with you that the burrowed units should be able to move under buildings lore wise, it doesn't make sense balance wise. it's kinda like how protoss can't lift off their buildings. .
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They can't move under protoss buildings 'cause the psionic emanations of protoss buildings act as a deterrent of sorts to the burowed zerg units such that they can't pass through it. zerg buildings are alive and thus can "tell" when a burrowed unit is trying to pass it below and can stop it. terran buildings are built over a whole crapload of marine and marauder sewage that essentially acts as a very good deterrent against burrowed roaches from moving under them.
iunno. make stuff up to explain it x].
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On March 30 2010 09:56 Ryuu314 wrote:
They can't move under protoss buildings 'cause the psionic emanations of protoss buildings act as a deterrent of sorts to the burowed zerg units such that they can't pass through it. zerg buildings are alive and thus can "tell" when a burrowed unit is trying to pass it below and can stop it. terran buildings are built over a whole crapload of marine and marauder sewage that essentially acts as a very good deterrent against burrowed roaches from moving under them.
iunno. make stuff up to explain it x].
Thats actually not half bad haha. Still doesnt explain the burrowed depot situation, and if the emanations of toss buildings prevent zerg from passing under them, they should also be able to prevent zerg from passing over or near them, so that one isnt too sensible either 
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Most situations like this are due to gameplay and balance perspectives, rather than throwing on reality goggles 
Also, if burrowed Roaches could go under buildings, wouldn't they create a cavern in which the building will cave in on, due to the lack of support? XD That's video game physics for you.
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how can a nydus worm reach a far island expansion?
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They don't do it not because of balance but because of technical reasons. So you burrow a roach under a barracks and hit halt. Now how does the enemy target that? Ok you make it to where it can't halt, but what prevents someone from moving it back and forth under like a cc to make it an invulnerable scout?
These questions probably came up in the original brood war, which is why we didn't see burrow movement then. I personally would rather it be consistent and make burrowed movement not work over lowered supply depots. If anything it would be harder to burrow under a lowered supply depot than a raised one. But then burrowed movement would be even more useless.
Edit: I would love to see them take a stab at burrowed movement. I think it could be done, personally, but I'm not willing to delay the game anymore for something like that, cool as it would be.
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I think Blizzard's lore answer was that buildings were so heavy they compressed the ground under them so much that units couldn't burrow through it.
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On March 30 2010 10:07 UnderWorld_Dream wrote:
how can a nydus worm reach a far island expansion?
They tunnel deeper.
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Man it'd be cool if T had to lower supply depots to block burrowed movement.
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EPT
