|
Am I the only one who thinks SC2 is starting to look a little too much like a Command and Conquer game? I mean, Dustin did develop C&C games before he started working on SC2, so he obviously brought ideas over.
Some examples of what I mean:
-In Red Alert there was a unit called a spy that changed into the other side's basic infantry unit in order to sneak into the opponent base. In SC2 the Overseer can create a unit called the changeling which does the same thing, with the exception that the Changeling is solely for scouting while the spy from RA can sabotage things.
-The Banshee looks almost exactly like the Orca from Tiberian Sun. It also has the same attack.
-Supply depots can now be lowered into the ground, a lot like the gates from Tiberian Sun.
-The Protoss can now warp things in using pylons or the warp prism. The Chronosphere from Red Alert does the same thing.
-The Terran Sensor Tower is almost exactly like the Psychic Sensor from Red Alert 2.
-The Hellion looks a lot like the Buggy from Tiberian Sun.
Get your C&C out of my Starcraft Dustin!
|
Clearly, SCII is exactly like Warcraft III,
I mean copy past Blink from Warden to Stalker, Demon Hunter clone Zealots, MBS and automine
Next thing you know they'll be adding heroes and creeps
Get your WC3 out of my Starcraft, Dustin!
|
Well SC is earlier than C&C so I think that C&C is too much like SC2 ^^
|
On December 12 2009 04:31 Welmu wrote:
Well SC is earlier than C&C so I think that C&C is too much like SC2 ^^
1. The first C&C was released in 1995
2. I'm talking about the similarity between Starcraft 2 and other command and conquer games because the lead designer of Starcraft 2 also worked on some command and conquer games
|
Yeah some of the infantry units have 2 legs also
etc
|
WC3 mixed with C&C... horrbile. not to mention the CG movies.
WTF is this? Toy Story?
|
How many times has this been mentioned by now? Is anybody keeping count? Dustin doesn't do too much anyway, look at the Kennigit-Dustin interview
|
Give this shit a rest already
EDIT: Oh I have one too, c&c has this whacky new thing called 3d and since sc is 2d but sc2 is 3d it is obviously copying c&c.
|
It looks more like Warcraft 3 than C&C. In fact, Starcraft 2 doesn't feel all that Starcraftish at the moment.
|
On December 12 2009 04:43 ManWithCheese wrote:
Give this shit a rest already
EDIT: Oh I have one too, c&c has this whacky new thing called 3d and since sc was 2d but sc2 is 3d it is obviously copying c&c.
Oh, sorry if I don't like gimmicky C&C-style units like the changeling that look so cool in concept but in reality are practically useless.
|
United States3824 Posts
This thread awesome!
Also greetings from behind the Shorecrest High School Firewall. Can't keep the college students out bitches!
|
Dont play that if you dont like, I dont care.
|
On December 12 2009 04:56 Vernom wrote:
Dont play that if you dont like, I dont care.
I own the C&C titles mentioned. How else would I know about the similarities between games?
I don't need to see a C&C style game coming from Blizzard. That's what the C&C franchise is for.
|
I think it's a good thing that devs on SC2 keep an open mind and are willing to incorporate good features from other games- including command & conquer games.
Blizzard RTS titles definitely were influenced by Dune 2. WoW recently incorporated a better tool for joining dungeons, copied from Lord of the Rings Online. I don't care where the ideas come from- if it's a good idea, but it doesn't come from Starcraft, I want it in Starcraft 2 anyway. Sure, you have to make it blend in, I still want it to feel like Starcraft. But if there's a bunch of good mechanics in Command & Conquer games that would make Starcraft 2 a better game if incorporated? By all means, add them.
|
As already stated, Starcraft 2 is 50% C&C and 50% Warcraft 3.
|
On December 12 2009 04:21 Dyz wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks SC2 is starting to look a little too much like a Command and Conquer game?
Yes
|
On December 12 2009 05:05 Zato-1 wrote:
I think it's a good thing that devs on SC2 keep an open mind and are willing to incorporate good features from other games- including command & conquer games.
Blizzard RTS titles definitely were influenced by Dune 2. WoW recently incorporated a better tool for joining dungeons, copied from Lord of the Rings Online. I don't care where the ideas come from- if it's a good idea, but it doesn't come from Starcraft, I want it in Starcraft 2 anyway. Sure, you have to make it blend in, I still want it to feel like Starcraft. But if there's a bunch of good mechanics in Command & Conquer games that would make Starcraft 2 a better game if incorporated? By all means, add them.
The problem is these aren't good mechanics from C&C. Spies were easy to spot and I doubt Changelings will be any different. What is the use of a sensor tower other than to hold the hands of kids who can't scout properly?
|
In Tropico 2: Pirate Cove you need to gather resources, and then spend those resources.
Clearly SC2 is a carbon copy, or at the very least a little bit too similar to Tropico 2: Pirate Cove.
|
On December 12 2009 05:05 Zato-1 wrote:
I think it's a good thing that devs on SC2 keep an open mind and are willing to incorporate good features from other games- including command & conquer games.
Blizzard RTS titles definitely were influenced by Dune 2. WoW recently incorporated a better tool for joining dungeons, copied from Lord of the Rings Online. I don't care where the ideas come from- if it's a good idea, but it doesn't come from Starcraft, I want it in Starcraft 2 anyway. Sure, you have to make it blend in, I still want it to feel like Starcraft. But if there's a bunch of good mechanics in Command & Conquer games that would make Starcraft 2 a better game if incorporated? By all means, add them.
yeah starcraft was the game after warcraft AND warcraft 2...and starcraft 2 is the game after warcraft 3 and a bunch of command and conquer games...
it should be kept in mind that starcraft was an amazing game, despite the similiarities it had with other stuff. it still had a lot of original content. and starcraft 2 should be the same.
|
LOL no one flaming this idea yet, only sarcasm?
I hate C&C, so this bugs me, but, I've always felt like the design of the vehicles in SC2 was ugly and not as cool as they were in SC world. Even in the concept art. Compare the concept art of both games, and I think the technology-like things in SC2 are just stupid looking compared to SC'2. Maybe this is the C&C influence, I don't know. It's weird to see Metzen drawing such ugly looking things so beautifully.
I can relate more to the War3 comparison. Every gameplay video of SC2 I've seen, it looks like a War3 game to me. Neon flashes obscuring everything, orcs or whatever standing there dancing in front of each other, and you could easily hide 10 War3 buildings or units into the screen and not one would look out of place to me. Maybe it's just the engine, but I hope it feels a lot more like SC than War3, like people say.
|
I liked the old C&C games, taking ideas from them is never a bad thing.
|
dcttr66 is right on the money here.
Games take inspiration from eachother all the time, I bet you werent ranting about how similar zerg were to aliens, or protoss to predators when SC came out, or even the blatantly obvious similarities between Marines and WH40ks space marines. Goliaths are Weebo~mechas, dropships even utter the famous Aliens line.
The only game that really was unique in unit design was... i dont know, KKND?
|
On December 12 2009 05:10 Dyz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2009 05:05 Zato-1 wrote:
I think it's a good thing that devs on SC2 keep an open mind and are willing to incorporate good features from other games- including command & conquer games.
Blizzard RTS titles definitely were influenced by Dune 2. WoW recently incorporated a better tool for joining dungeons, copied from Lord of the Rings Online. I don't care where the ideas come from- if it's a good idea, but it doesn't come from Starcraft, I want it in Starcraft 2 anyway. Sure, you have to make it blend in, I still want it to feel like Starcraft. But if there's a bunch of good mechanics in Command & Conquer games that would make Starcraft 2 a better game if incorporated? By all means, add them. The problem is these aren't good mechanics from C&C. Spies were easy to spot and I doubt Changelings will be any different. What is the use of a sensor tower other than to hold the hands of kids who can't scout properly?
uh yeah...the same might have been said of comsats long ago but obviously that's not the case...
|
On December 12 2009 05:15 old times sake wrote:
LOL no one flaming this idea yet, only sarcasm?
Except they all fail at sarcasm
"hurr hurr, you click to move in DoW so obviously it's like SC2. OMG LOLZ SO FUNNEH!"
|
Poll: Is SC2 too much like WOW, Halo and COD4??
(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
|
On December 12 2009 05:18 dcttr66 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2009 05:10 Dyz wrote:On December 12 2009 05:05 Zato-1 wrote:
I think it's a good thing that devs on SC2 keep an open mind and are willing to incorporate good features from other games- including command & conquer games.
Blizzard RTS titles definitely were influenced by Dune 2. WoW recently incorporated a better tool for joining dungeons, copied from Lord of the Rings Online. I don't care where the ideas come from- if it's a good idea, but it doesn't come from Starcraft, I want it in Starcraft 2 anyway. Sure, you have to make it blend in, I still want it to feel like Starcraft. But if there's a bunch of good mechanics in Command & Conquer games that would make Starcraft 2 a better game if incorporated? By all means, add them. The problem is these aren't good mechanics from C&C. Spies were easy to spot and I doubt Changelings will be any different. What is the use of a sensor tower other than to hold the hands of kids who can't scout properly? uh yeah...the same might have been said of comsats long ago but obviously that's not the case...
I'm sorry, but how is an instant reveal of the map at the cost of only energy comparable to a unit with 5 hp that has to manual cast its ability to change into another unit? GL getting those changelings into the person's base when he sees you changing it.
|
close this thread. I mean, really?
|
WoW, Halo and CoD all have many good ideas SC2 can benefit from.
|
On December 12 2009 05:10 Dyz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2009 05:05 Zato-1 wrote:
I think it's a good thing that devs on SC2 keep an open mind and are willing to incorporate good features from other games- including command & conquer games.
Blizzard RTS titles definitely were influenced by Dune 2. WoW recently incorporated a better tool for joining dungeons, copied from Lord of the Rings Online. I don't care where the ideas come from- if it's a good idea, but it doesn't come from Starcraft, I want it in Starcraft 2 anyway. Sure, you have to make it blend in, I still want it to feel like Starcraft. But if there's a bunch of good mechanics in Command & Conquer games that would make Starcraft 2 a better game if incorporated? By all means, add them. The problem is these aren't good mechanics from C&C. Spies were easy to spot and I doubt Changelings will be any different. What is the use of a sensor tower other than to hold the hands of kids who can't scout properly?
A Sensor Tower means spending resources for scouting in a certain area. It means not spending those resources on additional barracks, factories, starports, or military units. Maybe building a Banshee to scout requires more APM but is more cost-effective. Why do you have a problem with noobs spending resources for easier scouting, or with pros who know they are ahead in a game spending extra resources on scouting just to be safe?
As to changelings, if they suck, they can always be replaced by something else in beta. It's still premature to say whether they will suck or not, though. In the end, the more relevant concern is: are the particular abilities/mechanics good for the game, i.e., do they provide an interesting choice that can lead to fun playstyles? I don't give a damn if Blizzard stole the idea from Command & Conquer, Age of Empires or Solitaire.
|
Close this thread please.
|
On December 12 2009 05:44 John49ers wrote:
Close this thread please.
Yeah, this too. I can only see this derailing into flaming. There's nothing constructive about this thread.
|
On December 12 2009 05:39 Zato-1 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2009 05:10 Dyz wrote:On December 12 2009 05:05 Zato-1 wrote:
I think it's a good thing that devs on SC2 keep an open mind and are willing to incorporate good features from other games- including command & conquer games.
Blizzard RTS titles definitely were influenced by Dune 2. WoW recently incorporated a better tool for joining dungeons, copied from Lord of the Rings Online. I don't care where the ideas come from- if it's a good idea, but it doesn't come from Starcraft, I want it in Starcraft 2 anyway. Sure, you have to make it blend in, I still want it to feel like Starcraft. But if there's a bunch of good mechanics in Command & Conquer games that would make Starcraft 2 a better game if incorporated? By all means, add them. The problem is these aren't good mechanics from C&C. Spies were easy to spot and I doubt Changelings will be any different. What is the use of a sensor tower other than to hold the hands of kids who can't scout properly? A Sensor Tower means spending resources for scouting in a certain area. It means not spending those resources on additional barracks, factories, starports, or military units. Maybe building a Banshee to scout requires more APM but is more cost-effective. Why do you have a problem with noobs spending resources for easier scouting, or with pros who know they are ahead in a game spending extra resources on scouting just to be safe? As to changelings, if they suck, they can always be replaced by something else in beta. It's still premature to say whether they will suck or not, though. In the end, the more relevant concern is: are the particular abilities/mechanics good for the game, i.e., do they provide an interesting choice that can lead to fun playstyles? I don't give a damn if Blizzard stole the idea from Command & Conquer, Age of Empires or Solitaire.
Like the Scout, the sensor tower is completely useless. Why waste resources on a tower to scout when you can use a peon, overlord, or a cheap unit to do it for you?
Also, Starcraft is famous because of innovation and balance, not because it copied ideas form other RTS
games. Seriously, how much of a kick do you get playing with the same old RTS features, just in a new game with a different storyline? Hell, how much fun do you have playing the same FPS/RPG/Sports game/etc. over and over again across different franchises? Save the C&C crap for C&C, this is Starcraft.
|
Also, Starcraft is famous because of innovation and balance, not because it copied ideas form other RTS
lol okay whats ONE truly new innovation starcraft had at launch? I think you are selling short the 90's RTS genre
The point is, Blizzard hasn't been known for making innovative games. Starcraft 2 will play 90% like Starcraft 1, and the rest of the elements won't blow anyone's mind with originality. Blizzard's plan to success is to make very safe, refined, and well balanced games it has payed off in spades for them thus far.
|
On December 12 2009 06:03 Aduromors wrote:Show nested quote +
Also, Starcraft is famous because of innovation and balance, not because it copied ideas form other RTS
lol okay whats ONE truly new innovation starcraft had at launch? I think you are selling short the 90's RTS genre
Three completely different races that are balanced against one another.
That's pretty big actually
|
In sc2 you have units that can cast spells, if that isnt directly copied from WoW I dont know what is
|
In honor of this thread, I propose we compile a satirical LIST OF THINGS SC2 RIPPED OFF OTHER GAMES. All the examples in this thread so far merit inclusion, but I'll add some more:
(1): The DT in Starcraft 2 has invisibility and a giant sword...just like the Warcraft 3 Blademaster!
(2): Cobra's are hover vehicles, just like the pod-racers from Star Wars: Bombad Racing!
(3): Marauder's can slow opposing units...just like the Sorceress from Warcraft 3!
(4): The SCV has an acronym for a name, and can repair units...just like the MRT from C&C!
(5): The Viking is a two-legged mech with chainguns...just like the Wolverine from C&C!
(6): The Hellion has wheels...just like the Pitbull from C&C!
(7): The SCV, Probe, and Drone can all harvest things...just like the Harvester from C&C!
(8): The Siege Tank moves on treads, and has a cannon on top of it...just like the Mammoth tank from C&C!
(9): The Medivac dropship can heal other units...just like the Priest from Warcraft 3!
(10): The Viking can change from a ground to a flying form...just like the Druid of the Talon in Warcraft 3.
Continue!
But, in all seriousness, any gameplay gimmick used in another game is fair game for use in SC2; creativity is good wherever it comes from, and RTSs have been copying each other since the dawn of time. In terms of flavor...well, that's more subjective, but the Terrans in SC2 seem to me to have the same flavor they've always had, still very distinct from that in C&C. Remember: Starcraft did mechs first. And, plus, we've got hillbillies!
Also, Starcraft is famous because of innovation and balance, not because it copied ideas form other RTS
games. Seriously, how much of a kick do you get playing with the same old RTS features, just in a new game with a different storyline? Hell, how much fun do you have playing the same FPS/RPG/Sports game/etc. over and over again across different franchises? Save the C&C crap for C&C, this is Starcraft.
You still have not adequately defined what it is exactly that makes a game feature "C&C crap," as opposed to anything else ("Starcraft crap"? "Warcraft 3 crap"? "RTS crap"?). Until you do, it's impossible to have anything resembling a rational discussion on this topic. Note that "I don't like this feature" + "this feature bears a resemblance to one in C&C" \=\ "SC2 is ripping off C&C! EVERYTHING FROM C&C MUST BE EXCISED!"
Until you realize that, sarcasm will have to suffice.
|
The point is that the very VERY few innovations that there are in SC2 come directly from C&C and WC3 with almost no changes, and stupid shit like spies and the sensor towers don't come across as exactly well-rounded additions to starcraft
|
On December 12 2009 06:22 Captain Peabody wrote:In honor of this thread, I propose we compile a satirical LIST OF THINGS SC2 RIPPED OFF OTHER GAMES. All the examples in this thread so far merit inclusion, but I'll add some more: (1): The DT in Starcraft 2 has invisibility and a giant sword... just like the Warcraft 3 Blademaster! (2): Cobra's are hover vehicles, just like the pod-racers from Star Wars: Bombad Racing! (3): Marauder's can slow opposing units... just like the Sorceress from Warcraft 3! (4): The SCV has an acronym for a name, and can repair units... just like the MRT from C&C! (5): The Viking is a two-legged mech with chainguns... just like the Wolverine from C&C! (6): The Hellion has wheels... just like the Pitbull from C&C! (7): The SCV, Probe, and Drone can all harvest things... just like the Harvester from C&C! (8): The Siege Tank moves on treads, and has a cannon on top of it... just like the Mammoth tank from C&C! (9): The Medivac dropship can heal other units... just like the Priest from Warcraft 3! (10): The Viking can change from a ground to a flying form... just like the Druid of the Talon in Warcraft 3. Continue! But, in all seriousness, any gameplay gimmick used in another game is fair game for use in SC2; creativity is good wherever it comes from, and RTSs have been copying each other since the dawn of time. In terms of flavor...well, that's more subjective, but the Terrans in SC2 seem to me to have the same flavor they've always had, still very distinct from that in C&C. Remember: Starcraft did mechs first. And, plus, we've got hillbillies! Show nested quote +Also, Starcraft is famous because of innovation and balance, not because it copied ideas form other RTS
games. Seriously, how much of a kick do you get playing with the same old RTS features, just in a new game with a different storyline? Hell, how much fun do you have playing the same FPS/RPG/Sports game/etc. over and over again across different franchises? Save the C&C crap for C&C, this is Starcraft. You still have not adequately defined what it is exactly that makes a game feature "C&C crap," as opposed to anything else ("Starcraft crap"? "Warcraft 3 crap"? " RTS crap"?). Until you do, it's impossible to have anything resembling a rational discussion on this topic. Note that "I don't like this feature" + "this feature bears a resemblance to one in C&C" \=\ "SC2 is ripping off C&C! EVERYTHING FROM C&C MUST BE EXCISED!" Until you realize that, sarcasm will have to suffice.
Actually, mechwarrior did mechs first. And C&C crap is gimmick units which have no use in the game. Notice that in Starcraft almost every unit has a distinctive use. Yet with C&C you get idiotic units like the spy and the psychic tower which are useless for anyone who has a brain.
|
United Kingdom12022 Posts
I don't honestly see the thing of people complaining about the Changeling. Honestly it's completely free and if you do pull it off you could have a damn good scout around for something that costs nothing. Just think how useful the Sensor tower will be. You place it for a few extra resources to allow you to scout two places at once. In a sense.
The Sensor Tower allows you to show drops or whatever coming out of the fog. How is that any different from placing turrets everywhere on the map or moving overlords everywhere to spot for you? It's no different atall. It's just one building that you can build. It's not like you even have to use it.
I think people are complaining far too much about units resembling other units from games. Which in case you forget resemble real things or things from a different media form. People need to stop complaining and just let Blizzard design the game they want to. It's their game after all and no matter what the units look like Blizzard will make them fit in and work nicely with the Starcraft Lore and game itself.
One thing I never noticed was how the Protoss were like the Predator. Thanks for pointing that out whoever did.
|
I think allot of it is stolen from Starwars.
Think about it, STAR wars....STARcraft!
|
As long as i can play zerg and turtle with mass defense until mass ultra ling im good
|
On December 12 2009 07:10 Archerofaiur wrote:
I think allot of it is stolen from Starwars.
Think about it, STAR wars....STARcraft!
lmao whenever the DT attacks a unit I swear it sounds like he's using a lightsaber 
|
every game was been influence by another game. take sc1 for example it helped made warcraft but warcraft also help starcraft. without warcraft and starcraft EITHER could had existed to a extend. things might had been slightly different
|
Three quarters of these posts are clearly just trying to get this thread closed. I don't really see how that's any better than repeating the same arguments we've heard before...
And what, no Starship Troopers or Warhammer 40k references? Come on, people - at least try.
|
Sweden33719 Posts
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
