On August 17 2009 02:40 Klive5ive wrote: ZvZ is a fantastic match-up and these will be really intense and exciting games. I think the main reason people dislike ZvZ is it's just too dam short... so why don't they just make it Bo7 or Bo9?!
Theres also not much variety. It never gets into late game zvz these days.
I think the feeling all around is that this will be your average predictable ZvZ matchup. But I've been thinking a lot about this, and I've been questioning my underlying assumption that ZvZ is locked into a fixed style of play. We have seen a LOT of 12 hatch punishment lately. I remember Jaedong most for seemingly always 12 hatching (no, I haven't looked at the statistics, just going by games that I recall).
But lately, that has not been paying off. Lately, it's been zergling aggression that has won the games - mutas seem almost secondary in some of these recent matchups. I wonder if we could see some really old school strategies like going evo for +1 melee and just punching down the door with lings. I really think that if it comes down to a 'standard' muta battle, Jaedong's got an edge.
I'd be veeeery interested in watching Yarnc's practice leading up to this series. From his perspective, he likely realizes that his 'standard' ZvZ is not up to JvZ level. His gameplan is likely in using strategic plays based on the maps or using strange tech.
This series could be a lot more exciting than we're all thinking.
True zvz seems to be changing a bit. Before, if you're jaedong, you defy the laws and make 12 pool > 9 pool. But nowadays, even jaedong seems vulnerable in zvz match up. But if every zvz is won by early zergling aggression, that would be boring 10 min games.
12 pool...IS...greater than 9 pool... it's 12pool>9pool>12hatch>12pool
Well, 12pool expand loses to 9pool outright. 12pool -> hatch in base gets more lings but has slower mutas and aa lot less of them. You pretty much have to play defensively until you get a third hatch at your nat and it can get tough.
As much as I hate Jaedong for knocking out Fantasy and letting us have a ZvZ OSL Final, If Jaedong wins, it makes history. If YarnC wins, it's just another guy who won an OSL and may or may not be the next GGplay.
I kinda want Jaedong to win this finals. But who knows, maybe YarnC wins this and continues to play stellar.
Jaedong will take the first two games, then Yarnc will take the third raising my hopes of an underdog victory, but then Jaedong will win the fourth game and the Golden Mouse. Jaedong Jaedong Jaedong~
Basically impossible for Jaedong to lose this, but I think ZvZ finals are ridiculously exciting because of the randomness and tightness of the matchup. I never used to like them but after watching just a few ZvZs I was impressed, it's so much fun to watch, keeps you on the edge of your seat.
also skt1 fans, have respect. just because he knocked out fantasy does not mean that hes a horrible person, he deserves this way more then yarnac for playing spectacular since last osl finals.
On August 19 2009 02:07 Ozarugold wrote: Jaedong will take the first two games, then Yarnc will take the third raising my hopes of an underdog victory, but then Jaedong will win the fourth game and the Golden Mouse. Jaedong Jaedong Jaedong~
Jaedong takes this OSL and the Golden Mouse 3-1.
its more likely a lose first game win 3 for jaedong, its his style. but im hoping for a 3-0 utter domination with some hydra play
On August 17 2009 02:40 Klive5ive wrote: ZvZ is a fantastic match-up and these will be really intense and exciting games. I think the main reason people dislike ZvZ is it's just too dam short... so why don't they just make it Bo7 or Bo9?!
Theres also not much variety. It never gets into late game zvz these days.
I think the feeling all around is that this will be your average predictable ZvZ matchup. But I've been thinking a lot about this, and I've been questioning my underlying assumption that ZvZ is locked into a fixed style of play. We have seen a LOT of 12 hatch punishment lately. I remember Jaedong most for seemingly always 12 hatching (no, I haven't looked at the statistics, just going by games that I recall).
But lately, that has not been paying off. Lately, it's been zergling aggression that has won the games - mutas seem almost secondary in some of these recent matchups. I wonder if we could see some really old school strategies like going evo for +1 melee and just punching down the door with lings. I really think that if it comes down to a 'standard' muta battle, Jaedong's got an edge.
I'd be veeeery interested in watching Yarnc's practice leading up to this series. From his perspective, he likely realizes that his 'standard' ZvZ is not up to JvZ level. His gameplan is likely in using strategic plays based on the maps or using strange tech.
This series could be a lot more exciting than we're all thinking.
True zvz seems to be changing a bit. Before, if you're jaedong, you defy the laws and make 12 pool > 9 pool. But nowadays, even jaedong seems vulnerable in zvz match up. But if every zvz is won by early zergling aggression, that would be boring 10 min games.
12 pool...IS...greater than 9 pool... it's 12pool>9pool>12hatch>12pool
Well, 12pool expand loses to 9pool outright. 12pool -> hatch in base gets more lings but has slower mutas and aa lot less of them. You pretty much have to play defensively until you get a third hatch at your nat and it can get tough.
12pool expand does not lose to 9pool outright its about 50/50, since the 6v6 lings make contact at the natural, it comes down to who has better micro.
On August 19 2009 03:29 boxxyownz wrote: jaedong gogoo
also skt1 fans, have respect. just because he knocked out fantasy does not mean that hes a horrible person, he deserves this way more then yarnac for playing spectacular since last osl finals.
he doesnt deserve it more the guy who wins 3 games deserves it
On August 19 2009 03:29 boxxyownz wrote: jaedong gogoo
also skt1 fans, have respect. just because he knocked out fantasy does not mean that hes a horrible person, he deserves this way more then yarnac for playing spectacular since last osl finals.
he doesnt deserve it more the guy who wins 3 games deserves it
On August 17 2009 02:40 Klive5ive wrote: ZvZ is a fantastic match-up and these will be really intense and exciting games. I think the main reason people dislike ZvZ is it's just too dam short... so why don't they just make it Bo7 or Bo9?!
Theres also not much variety. It never gets into late game zvz these days.
I think the feeling all around is that this will be your average predictable ZvZ matchup. But I've been thinking a lot about this, and I've been questioning my underlying assumption that ZvZ is locked into a fixed style of play. We have seen a LOT of 12 hatch punishment lately. I remember Jaedong most for seemingly always 12 hatching (no, I haven't looked at the statistics, just going by games that I recall).
But lately, that has not been paying off. Lately, it's been zergling aggression that has won the games - mutas seem almost secondary in some of these recent matchups. I wonder if we could see some really old school strategies like going evo for +1 melee and just punching down the door with lings. I really think that if it comes down to a 'standard' muta battle, Jaedong's got an edge.
I'd be veeeery interested in watching Yarnc's practice leading up to this series. From his perspective, he likely realizes that his 'standard' ZvZ is not up to JvZ level. His gameplan is likely in using strategic plays based on the maps or using strange tech.
This series could be a lot more exciting than we're all thinking.
True zvz seems to be changing a bit. Before, if you're jaedong, you defy the laws and make 12 pool > 9 pool. But nowadays, even jaedong seems vulnerable in zvz match up. But if every zvz is won by early zergling aggression, that would be boring 10 min games.
12 pool...IS...greater than 9 pool... it's 12pool>9pool>12hatch>12pool
Well, 12pool expand loses to 9pool outright. 12pool -> hatch in base gets more lings but has slower mutas and aa lot less of them. You pretty much have to play defensively until you get a third hatch at your nat and it can get tough.
12pool expand does not lose to 9pool outright its about 50/50, since the 6v6 lings make contact at the natural, it comes down to who has better micro.
it's actually 6 lings vs 4 lings to start with unless you cut a drone... which might be smart, who knows. The thing about 12pool expand compared to 12hatch is that in 12pool expand you won't have those larvae in use until much later, and you'll always be 2 lings behind for a while until you get your own 2 lings. The moment your opponent's speed finishes before yours... it's going to be tough. I guess 12pool can win but... it's at a disadvantage. Assuming speed of course, it's a lot less painful vs lair first.
With 12hatch the 9pooler can't be attacking the hatchery, it won't die in time and 12her will get enough lings to drive you away. In the case of 12hatch the 9pooler must go into the main and kill drones. Thought I'd throw that there.
EPT![[image loading]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/Grouty/popeyeflash.jpg)
