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[OSL] Bacchus OSL Grand Final - Jaedong vs YellOw[ArnC] -…

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
August 18 2009 17:01 GMT
#141
On August 18 2009 11:01 aznanimedude wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2009 06:40 MuffinDude wrote:
On August 17 2009 04:38 DefMatrixUltra wrote:
On August 17 2009 02:41 MuffinDude wrote:
On August 17 2009 02:40 Klive5ive wrote:
ZvZ is a fantastic match-up and these will be really intense and exciting games.
I think the main reason people dislike ZvZ is it's just too dam short... so why don't they just make it Bo7 or Bo9?!


Theres also not much variety. It never gets into late game zvz these days.


I think the feeling all around is that this will be your average predictable ZvZ matchup. But I've been thinking a lot about this, and I've been questioning my underlying assumption that ZvZ is locked into a fixed style of play. We have seen a LOT of 12 hatch punishment lately. I remember Jaedong most for seemingly always 12 hatching (no, I haven't looked at the statistics, just going by games that I recall).

But lately, that has not been paying off. Lately, it's been zergling aggression that has won the games - mutas seem almost secondary in some of these recent matchups. I wonder if we could see some really old school strategies like going evo for +1 melee and just punching down the door with lings. I really think that if it comes down to a 'standard' muta battle, Jaedong's got an edge.

I'd be veeeery interested in watching Yarnc's practice leading up to this series. From his perspective, he likely realizes that his 'standard' ZvZ is not up to JvZ level. His gameplan is likely in using strategic plays based on the maps or using strange tech.

This series could be a lot more exciting than we're all thinking.


True zvz seems to be changing a bit. Before, if you're jaedong, you defy the laws and make 12 pool > 9 pool. But nowadays, even jaedong seems vulnerable in zvz match up. But if every zvz is won by early zergling aggression, that would be boring 10 min games.


12 pool...IS...greater than 9 pool...
it's 12pool>9pool>12hatch>12pool

Well, 12pool expand loses to 9pool outright. 12pool -> hatch in base gets more lings but has slower mutas and aa lot less of them. You pretty much have to play defensively until you get a third hatch at your nat and it can get tough.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Tensai176
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
Canada2061 Posts
August 18 2009 17:03 GMT
#142
As much as I hate Jaedong for knocking out Fantasy and letting us have a ZvZ OSL Final, If Jaedong wins, it makes history. If YarnC wins, it's just another guy who won an OSL and may or may not be the next GGplay.

I kinda want Jaedong to win this finals. But who knows, maybe YarnC wins this and continues to play stellar.
We see things they'll never see
ryuu_
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States1266 Posts
August 18 2009 17:04 GMT
#143
On August 18 2009 23:49 AzureEye wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2009 23:31 iSiN wrote:

[image loading]


Awesome pic!!!!


Rofl thats hilarious, JD --> Golden Mouse
♣ Jaedong. Stork. Bisu. Calm. NaDa. SC2: Sen, MKP, DRG, MMA, Grubby, NonY, Ret, Jinro, TLO, Sheth, HayprO, Zenio,Taeja,Snute, Sea, Rain, MC,Squirtle,Stephano,Parting ,Life, and HEROOOOO <3
Boundz(DarKo)
Profile Joined March 2009
5311 Posts
August 18 2009 17:06 GMT
#144
The only thing that's keeping me pumped is the possibility of a Jaedong~revenge and a second zerg golden mouse.
Ozarugold
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
2716 Posts
August 18 2009 17:07 GMT
#145
Jaedong will take the first two games, then Yarnc will take the third raising my hopes of an underdog victory, but then Jaedong will win the fourth game and the Golden Mouse. Jaedong Jaedong Jaedong~

Jaedong takes this OSL and the Golden Mouse 3-1.
this is my quote.
mucker
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States1120 Posts
August 18 2009 17:21 GMT
#146
They are 4:4, but i was a little bummed to see that two of fakeyellow's wins were in march 06.

Can we really live in a world where Jaedong gets knocked out of gom, msl and osl in zvz matchups and loses to hyuk in the proleague final?

Hoping fakeyellow but...

It's supposed to be automatic but actually you have to press this button.
Oxygen
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
Canada3581 Posts
August 18 2009 17:50 GMT
#147
Basically impossible for Jaedong to lose this, but I think ZvZ finals are ridiculously exciting because of the randomness and tightness of the matchup. I never used to like them but after watching just a few ZvZs I was impressed, it's so much fun to watch, keeps you on the edge of your seat.
Dont drink and derive. TSL: Made with Balls.
boxxyownz
Profile Joined February 2009
United States103 Posts
August 18 2009 18:29 GMT
#148
jaedong gogoo

also skt1 fans, have respect. just because he knocked out fantasy does not mean that hes a horrible person, he deserves this way more then yarnac for playing spectacular since last osl finals.
zzz
Glioburd
Profile Joined April 2008
France1911 Posts
August 18 2009 18:38 GMT
#149
Yarnc GOOOO !
U have to win a starleague !
"You should hate loosing, but you should never fear defeat." NaDa.
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13922 Posts
August 18 2009 18:40 GMT
#150
On August 19 2009 02:07 Ozarugold wrote:
Jaedong will take the first two games, then Yarnc will take the third raising my hopes of an underdog victory, but then Jaedong will win the fourth game and the Golden Mouse. Jaedong Jaedong Jaedong~

Jaedong takes this OSL and the Golden Mouse 3-1.


its more likely a lose first game win 3 for jaedong, its his style. but im hoping for a 3-0 utter domination with some hydra play
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
stroggos
Profile Joined February 2009
New Zealand1543 Posts
August 18 2009 19:24 GMT
#151
On August 19 2009 02:01 Shikyo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2009 11:01 aznanimedude wrote:
On August 17 2009 06:40 MuffinDude wrote:
On August 17 2009 04:38 DefMatrixUltra wrote:
On August 17 2009 02:41 MuffinDude wrote:
On August 17 2009 02:40 Klive5ive wrote:
ZvZ is a fantastic match-up and these will be really intense and exciting games.
I think the main reason people dislike ZvZ is it's just too dam short... so why don't they just make it Bo7 or Bo9?!


Theres also not much variety. It never gets into late game zvz these days.


I think the feeling all around is that this will be your average predictable ZvZ matchup. But I've been thinking a lot about this, and I've been questioning my underlying assumption that ZvZ is locked into a fixed style of play. We have seen a LOT of 12 hatch punishment lately. I remember Jaedong most for seemingly always 12 hatching (no, I haven't looked at the statistics, just going by games that I recall).

But lately, that has not been paying off. Lately, it's been zergling aggression that has won the games - mutas seem almost secondary in some of these recent matchups. I wonder if we could see some really old school strategies like going evo for +1 melee and just punching down the door with lings. I really think that if it comes down to a 'standard' muta battle, Jaedong's got an edge.

I'd be veeeery interested in watching Yarnc's practice leading up to this series. From his perspective, he likely realizes that his 'standard' ZvZ is not up to JvZ level. His gameplan is likely in using strategic plays based on the maps or using strange tech.

This series could be a lot more exciting than we're all thinking.


True zvz seems to be changing a bit. Before, if you're jaedong, you defy the laws and make 12 pool > 9 pool. But nowadays, even jaedong seems vulnerable in zvz match up. But if every zvz is won by early zergling aggression, that would be boring 10 min games.


12 pool...IS...greater than 9 pool...
it's 12pool>9pool>12hatch>12pool

Well, 12pool expand loses to 9pool outright. 12pool -> hatch in base gets more lings but has slower mutas and aa lot less of them. You pretty much have to play defensively until you get a third hatch at your nat and it can get tough.


12pool expand does not lose to 9pool outright its about 50/50, since the 6v6 lings make contact at the natural, it comes down to who has better micro.
hi
3 Lions
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States3705 Posts
August 18 2009 19:26 GMT
#152
For a golden mouse winning series we've seen a 3-2 (Nada vs Anytime) and a 3-0 (July vs Best). I'm expecting a 3-1 win from Jaedong.
Sinensis
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States2513 Posts
August 18 2009 19:32 GMT
#153
I predict it will be 3-1 with Jaedong losing the first game. I predict he will lose by going hatch before pool and yarnc 9 pooling.
imperator-xy
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Germany1377 Posts
August 18 2009 19:39 GMT
#154
On August 19 2009 03:29 boxxyownz wrote:
jaedong gogoo

also skt1 fans, have respect. just because he knocked out fantasy does not mean that hes a horrible person, he deserves this way more then yarnac for playing spectacular since last osl finals.

he doesnt deserve it more
the guy who wins 3 games deserves it
Sigrun
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States1655 Posts
August 18 2009 19:54 GMT
#155
Go Jaedong! For the gold!
Graphics
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13922 Posts
August 18 2009 20:04 GMT
#156
On August 19 2009 04:39 imperator-xy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2009 03:29 boxxyownz wrote:
jaedong gogoo

also skt1 fans, have respect. just because he knocked out fantasy does not mean that hes a horrible person, he deserves this way more then yarnac for playing spectacular since last osl finals.

he doesnt deserve it more
the guy who wins 3 games deserves it


different ways to view it.
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
August 18 2009 20:30 GMT
#157
On August 19 2009 04:24 stroggos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2009 02:01 Shikyo wrote:
On August 18 2009 11:01 aznanimedude wrote:
On August 17 2009 06:40 MuffinDude wrote:
On August 17 2009 04:38 DefMatrixUltra wrote:
On August 17 2009 02:41 MuffinDude wrote:
On August 17 2009 02:40 Klive5ive wrote:
ZvZ is a fantastic match-up and these will be really intense and exciting games.
I think the main reason people dislike ZvZ is it's just too dam short... so why don't they just make it Bo7 or Bo9?!


Theres also not much variety. It never gets into late game zvz these days.


I think the feeling all around is that this will be your average predictable ZvZ matchup. But I've been thinking a lot about this, and I've been questioning my underlying assumption that ZvZ is locked into a fixed style of play. We have seen a LOT of 12 hatch punishment lately. I remember Jaedong most for seemingly always 12 hatching (no, I haven't looked at the statistics, just going by games that I recall).

But lately, that has not been paying off. Lately, it's been zergling aggression that has won the games - mutas seem almost secondary in some of these recent matchups. I wonder if we could see some really old school strategies like going evo for +1 melee and just punching down the door with lings. I really think that if it comes down to a 'standard' muta battle, Jaedong's got an edge.

I'd be veeeery interested in watching Yarnc's practice leading up to this series. From his perspective, he likely realizes that his 'standard' ZvZ is not up to JvZ level. His gameplan is likely in using strategic plays based on the maps or using strange tech.

This series could be a lot more exciting than we're all thinking.


True zvz seems to be changing a bit. Before, if you're jaedong, you defy the laws and make 12 pool > 9 pool. But nowadays, even jaedong seems vulnerable in zvz match up. But if every zvz is won by early zergling aggression, that would be boring 10 min games.


12 pool...IS...greater than 9 pool...
it's 12pool>9pool>12hatch>12pool

Well, 12pool expand loses to 9pool outright. 12pool -> hatch in base gets more lings but has slower mutas and aa lot less of them. You pretty much have to play defensively until you get a third hatch at your nat and it can get tough.


12pool expand does not lose to 9pool outright its about 50/50, since the 6v6 lings make contact at the natural, it comes down to who has better micro.

it's actually 6 lings vs 4 lings to start with unless you cut a drone... which might be smart, who knows. The thing about 12pool expand compared to 12hatch is that in 12pool expand you won't have those larvae in use until much later, and you'll always be 2 lings behind for a while until you get your own 2 lings. The moment your opponent's speed finishes before yours... it's going to be tough. I guess 12pool can win but... it's at a disadvantage. Assuming speed of course, it's a lot less painful vs lair first.

With 12hatch the 9pooler can't be attacking the hatchery, it won't die in time and 12her will get enough lings to drive you away. In the case of 12hatch the 9pooler must go into the main and kill drones. Thought I'd throw that there.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
dobbersp
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States94 Posts
August 18 2009 20:44 GMT
#158
When does this thing go down?
I didnt see any time/date info on it.

Could someone kindly point me in the right direction?
I wanna watch!
though the dark may come, the Sun also rises.
EtherealDeath
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States8366 Posts
August 18 2009 20:51 GMT
#159
If Jaedong wins, he's totally doing the wrong way. You're supposed to get the 3 MSL before the 3 OSL, wtfux. Hoping he wins though ^^
Huanir
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States85 Posts
August 18 2009 20:54 GMT
#160
Saturday, August 22nd

18:00 KST
11:00 CET
05:00 EST
02:00 PST
Lord of the Rings was the greatest work of literature of the twentieth century, period. ~Orson Scott Card
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