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On August 24 2009 20:49 sehole wrote:
I just read on fomos that the this OSL finals was the most watched TV program by males in their teens and twenties.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean here. Do you mean that
1. It won the ratings war for that Saturday night on which it broadcasted?
2. Was the highest rated OSL final in history?
If it's #1, then it's no accomplishment at all, given the demographics of SC and the importance of the event.
If it's #2, then it's something that should be considered an accomplishment. But then they should also do a poll on why people watch. Whether they care for the golden mouse or actually care for the games.
On August 24 2009 21:15 vaMpYr wrote:
most of non-koreans hate zvz maybe , but you can ask the progamers , no one will tell you its a boring match .
Progamers aren't viewers though. And just we're not discussing absolute here, but relative. You fail to grasp the difference between the two. A person can enjoy ZvZ, yet prefer TvZ or PvZ much more so. It's like the difference between picking up a quarter on the sidewalk as opposed to a $20 bill.
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If it's #1, you need to know how close the 2nd most watched show usually is for other OSL finals before judging if it's an accomplishment or not. Or just see how many people watched this OSL finals compared to previous ones. People aren't stupid, they know what ZvZ is like.
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i'll take ZvZ over TvT.... I don't like both matchups that much, but at least ZvZ is not likely to get totally boring which TvT sometimes just is...
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On August 24 2009 13:55 Gumbo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2009 13:53 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 24 2009 12:58 ssj114 wrote:
Jaedong proving he is the GOAT.
I find it hilarious that people are saying that it's the worst OSL in recent history or other bla bla bla.
Get over it. Jaedong is so clearly the GOAT. Straight up, Jaedong could beat any other player in history, but that doesn't necessarily make him the best. Well, actually, yes. It does.
Actually, no. Has he shown the tactical genius and pure intelligence needed to truly dominate an era like Boxer, Oov, Nada, or Savior did? No. THAT is true greatness. Being able to know a game so well in your own generation that you can truly dominate the scene. Comparing two different generations is like comparing two different games - it makes you look like an idiot. Anyone with half a brain can watch Boxer play GARIMTO or Yellow way back in the day and see that it is basically a completely different game compared to now.
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On August 25 2009 02:25 Avidkeystamper wrote:
If it's #1, you need to know how close the 2nd most watched show usually is for other OSL finals before judging if it's an accomplishment or not. Or just see how many people watched this OSL finals compared to previous ones. People aren't stupid, they know what ZvZ is like.
golden mouse
OSL
JvZ
no reason to not watch :D
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I just noticed...
In Jaedong's picture on the OP, there's already a bunch of pictures from past OSL's of him winning...
meanwhile.......Yarnc's background is all blurry, because he hasn't won anything..
 sad reality.
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Not to mention Yarnc looks visibly uncomfortable in his picture.
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On August 25 2009 06:12 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2009 13:55 Gumbo wrote:On August 24 2009 13:53 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 24 2009 12:58 ssj114 wrote:
Jaedong proving he is the GOAT.
I find it hilarious that people are saying that it's the worst OSL in recent history or other bla bla bla.
Get over it. Jaedong is so clearly the GOAT. Straight up, Jaedong could beat any other player in history, but that doesn't necessarily make him the best. Well, actually, yes. It does. Actually, no. Has he shown the tactical genius and pure intelligence needed to truly dominate an era like Boxer, Oov, Nada, or Savior did? No. THAT is true greatness. Being able to know a game so well in your own generation that you can truly dominate the scene. Comparing two different generations is like comparing two different games - it makes you look like an idiot. Anyone with half a brain can watch Boxer play GARIMTO or Yellow way back in the day and see that it is basically a completely different game compared to now.
When I watch Boxer vs Yellow year 2000 or something where Boxer won 3~2. I said, hey, these guys aren't that good and prolly if I practice enough, I can play like them. Actually, I'm believing we could beat the Boxer in year 2000. But, of course, it's already been 9 years after that, SO MANY strategies and whatnot developed. Now, I understand why they "sucked" back in the days. I mean, they don't play perfect. Sometimes, there are idle larvae for Yellow or sometimes, he micros bad for a pro.
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On August 25 2009 06:43 Batibot wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2009 06:12 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 24 2009 13:55 Gumbo wrote:On August 24 2009 13:53 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 24 2009 12:58 ssj114 wrote:
Jaedong proving he is the GOAT.
I find it hilarious that people are saying that it's the worst OSL in recent history or other bla bla bla.
Get over it. Jaedong is so clearly the GOAT. Straight up, Jaedong could beat any other player in history, but that doesn't necessarily make him the best. Well, actually, yes. It does. Actually, no. Has he shown the tactical genius and pure intelligence needed to truly dominate an era like Boxer, Oov, Nada, or Savior did? No. THAT is true greatness. Being able to know a game so well in your own generation that you can truly dominate the scene. Comparing two different generations is like comparing two different games - it makes you look like an idiot. Anyone with half a brain can watch Boxer play GARIMTO or Yellow way back in the day and see that it is basically a completely different game compared to now. When I watch Boxer vs Yellow year 2000 or something where Boxer won 3~2. I said, hey, these guys aren't that good and prolly if I practice enough, I can play like them. Actually, I'm believing we could beat the Boxer in year 2000. But, of course, it's already been 9 years after that, SO MANY strategies and whatnot developed. Now, I understand why they "sucked" back in the days. I mean, they don't play perfect. Sometimes, there are idle larvae for Yellow or sometimes, he micros bad for a pro.
If you're arrogant enough to think you could beat a pro even from the old days, you're a complete moron.
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On August 25 2009 06:43 Batibot wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2009 06:12 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 24 2009 13:55 Gumbo wrote:On August 24 2009 13:53 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 24 2009 12:58 ssj114 wrote:
Jaedong proving he is the GOAT.
I find it hilarious that people are saying that it's the worst OSL in recent history or other bla bla bla.
Get over it. Jaedong is so clearly the GOAT. Straight up, Jaedong could beat any other player in history, but that doesn't necessarily make him the best. Well, actually, yes. It does. Actually, no. Has he shown the tactical genius and pure intelligence needed to truly dominate an era like Boxer, Oov, Nada, or Savior did? No. THAT is true greatness. Being able to know a game so well in your own generation that you can truly dominate the scene. Comparing two different generations is like comparing two different games - it makes you look like an idiot. Anyone with half a brain can watch Boxer play GARIMTO or Yellow way back in the day and see that it is basically a completely different game compared to now. When I watch Boxer vs Yellow year 2000 or something where Boxer won 3~2. I said, hey, these guys aren't that good and prolly if I practice enough, I can play like them. Actually, I'm believing we could beat the Boxer in year 2000. But, of course, it's already been 9 years after that, SO MANY strategies and whatnot developed. Now, I understand why they "sucked" back in the days. I mean, they don't play perfect. Sometimes, there are idle larvae for Yellow or sometimes, he micros bad for a pro.
HAHAHAHA
im 100%stoned at the time and i can tell you i never so much laught in all my life .
"i can beat the boxer of 2000"
THAT WAS EPIC
MAGIC
MONSTRUOUS
MYTIC
BEAUTIFUL
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On August 25 2009 07:01 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2009 06:43 Batibot wrote:On August 25 2009 06:12 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 24 2009 13:55 Gumbo wrote:On August 24 2009 13:53 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 24 2009 12:58 ssj114 wrote:
Jaedong proving he is the GOAT.
I find it hilarious that people are saying that it's the worst OSL in recent history or other bla bla bla.
Get over it. Jaedong is so clearly the GOAT. Straight up, Jaedong could beat any other player in history, but that doesn't necessarily make him the best. Well, actually, yes. It does. Actually, no. Has he shown the tactical genius and pure intelligence needed to truly dominate an era like Boxer, Oov, Nada, or Savior did? No. THAT is true greatness. Being able to know a game so well in your own generation that you can truly dominate the scene. Comparing two different generations is like comparing two different games - it makes you look like an idiot. Anyone with half a brain can watch Boxer play GARIMTO or Yellow way back in the day and see that it is basically a completely different game compared to now. When I watch Boxer vs Yellow year 2000 or something where Boxer won 3~2. I said, hey, these guys aren't that good and prolly if I practice enough, I can play like them. Actually, I'm believing we could beat the Boxer in year 2000. But, of course, it's already been 9 years after that, SO MANY strategies and whatnot developed. Now, I understand why they "sucked" back in the days. I mean, they don't play perfect. Sometimes, there are idle larvae for Yellow or sometimes, he micros bad for a pro. If you're arrogant enough to think you could beat a pro even from the old days, you're a complete moron.
I don't think it's that much of a stretch. The build orders now are so precise and cut so many corners that if we did a really solid build the 2000boxer would have a tough time. Especially since the style back then was one base builds.
edit: I'm not saying boxer sucked- he and others together revolutionized the game, which is why we have such precise build orders and good mechanics nowadays.
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On August 25 2009 06:12 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Actually, no. Has he shown the tactical genius and pure intelligence needed to truly dominate an era like Boxer, Oov, Nada, or Savior did? No. THAT is true greatness. Being able to know a game so well in your own generation that you can truly dominate the scene. Comparing two different generations is like comparing two different games - it makes you look like an idiot. Anyone with half a brain can watch Boxer play GARIMTO or Yellow way back in the day and see that it is basically a completely different game compared to now.
jaedong has more absolute knowledge of the game than anyone back then, that's obvious because he received part of that from others when he learned
jaedong has more relative knowledge also, this is not hard to verify, just check the kespa ranking, his 3 OSL titles and his career win ratios, all of which are superior to all the players you mentioned except for nada
in any case, i'll just drop the argument here and link you to:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NostalgiaFilter
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On August 25 2009 07:01 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2009 06:43 Batibot wrote:On August 25 2009 06:12 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 24 2009 13:55 Gumbo wrote:On August 24 2009 13:53 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 24 2009 12:58 ssj114 wrote:
Jaedong proving he is the GOAT.
I find it hilarious that people are saying that it's the worst OSL in recent history or other bla bla bla.
Get over it. Jaedong is so clearly the GOAT. Straight up, Jaedong could beat any other player in history, but that doesn't necessarily make him the best. Well, actually, yes. It does. Actually, no. Has he shown the tactical genius and pure intelligence needed to truly dominate an era like Boxer, Oov, Nada, or Savior did? No. THAT is true greatness. Being able to know a game so well in your own generation that you can truly dominate the scene. Comparing two different generations is like comparing two different games - it makes you look like an idiot. Anyone with half a brain can watch Boxer play GARIMTO or Yellow way back in the day and see that it is basically a completely different game compared to now. When I watch Boxer vs Yellow year 2000 or something where Boxer won 3~2. I said, hey, these guys aren't that good and prolly if I practice enough, I can play like them. Actually, I'm believing we could beat the Boxer in year 2000. But, of course, it's already been 9 years after that, SO MANY strategies and whatnot developed. Now, I understand why they "sucked" back in the days. I mean, they don't play perfect. Sometimes, there are idle larvae for Yellow or sometimes, he micros bad for a pro. If you're arrogant enough to think you could beat a pro even from the old days, you're a complete moron.
A C- Zerg player on iCCup of today can beat the Boxer from 2001 easy.
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On August 25 2009 09:20 koreasilver wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2009 07:01 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 25 2009 06:43 Batibot wrote:On August 25 2009 06:12 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 24 2009 13:55 Gumbo wrote:On August 24 2009 13:53 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 24 2009 12:58 ssj114 wrote:
Jaedong proving he is the GOAT.
I find it hilarious that people are saying that it's the worst OSL in recent history or other bla bla bla.
Get over it. Jaedong is so clearly the GOAT. Straight up, Jaedong could beat any other player in history, but that doesn't necessarily make him the best. Well, actually, yes. It does. Actually, no. Has he shown the tactical genius and pure intelligence needed to truly dominate an era like Boxer, Oov, Nada, or Savior did? No. THAT is true greatness. Being able to know a game so well in your own generation that you can truly dominate the scene. Comparing two different generations is like comparing two different games - it makes you look like an idiot. Anyone with half a brain can watch Boxer play GARIMTO or Yellow way back in the day and see that it is basically a completely different game compared to now. When I watch Boxer vs Yellow year 2000 or something where Boxer won 3~2. I said, hey, these guys aren't that good and prolly if I practice enough, I can play like them. Actually, I'm believing we could beat the Boxer in year 2000. But, of course, it's already been 9 years after that, SO MANY strategies and whatnot developed. Now, I understand why they "sucked" back in the days. I mean, they don't play perfect. Sometimes, there are idle larvae for Yellow or sometimes, he micros bad for a pro. If you're arrogant enough to think you could beat a pro even from the old days, you're a complete moron. A C- Zerg player on iCCup of today can beat the Boxer from 2001 easy.
Yeah a C- zerg can beat Boxer from 2001 easy using MODERN strategies
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Modern strategies don't really work on old maps very well.
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On August 25 2009 07:01 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2009 06:43 Batibot wrote:On August 25 2009 06:12 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 24 2009 13:55 Gumbo wrote:On August 24 2009 13:53 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 24 2009 12:58 ssj114 wrote:
Jaedong proving he is the GOAT.
I find it hilarious that people are saying that it's the worst OSL in recent history or other bla bla bla.
Get over it. Jaedong is so clearly the GOAT. Straight up, Jaedong could beat any other player in history, but that doesn't necessarily make him the best. Well, actually, yes. It does. Actually, no. Has he shown the tactical genius and pure intelligence needed to truly dominate an era like Boxer, Oov, Nada, or Savior did? No. THAT is true greatness. Being able to know a game so well in your own generation that you can truly dominate the scene. Comparing two different generations is like comparing two different games - it makes you look like an idiot. Anyone with half a brain can watch Boxer play GARIMTO or Yellow way back in the day and see that it is basically a completely different game compared to now. When I watch Boxer vs Yellow year 2000 or something where Boxer won 3~2. I said, hey, these guys aren't that good and prolly if I practice enough, I can play like them. Actually, I'm believing we could beat the Boxer in year 2000. But, of course, it's already been 9 years after that, SO MANY strategies and whatnot developed. Now, I understand why they "sucked" back in the days. I mean, they don't play perfect. Sometimes, there are idle larvae for Yellow or sometimes, he micros bad for a pro. If you're arrogant enough to think you could beat a pro even from the old days, you're a complete moron.
On the contrary, you're the moron. It's not even arrogance, it's the truth.
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On August 25 2009 07:01 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2009 06:43 Batibot wrote:On August 25 2009 06:12 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 24 2009 13:55 Gumbo wrote:On August 24 2009 13:53 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 24 2009 12:58 ssj114 wrote:
Jaedong proving he is the GOAT.
I find it hilarious that people are saying that it's the worst OSL in recent history or other bla bla bla.
Get over it. Jaedong is so clearly the GOAT. Straight up, Jaedong could beat any other player in history, but that doesn't necessarily make him the best. Well, actually, yes. It does. Actually, no. Has he shown the tactical genius and pure intelligence needed to truly dominate an era like Boxer, Oov, Nada, or Savior did? No. THAT is true greatness. Being able to know a game so well in your own generation that you can truly dominate the scene. Comparing two different generations is like comparing two different games - it makes you look like an idiot. Anyone with half a brain can watch Boxer play GARIMTO or Yellow way back in the day and see that it is basically a completely different game compared to now. When I watch Boxer vs Yellow year 2000 or something where Boxer won 3~2. I said, hey, these guys aren't that good and prolly if I practice enough, I can play like them. Actually, I'm believing we could beat the Boxer in year 2000. But, of course, it's already been 9 years after that, SO MANY strategies and whatnot developed. Now, I understand why they "sucked" back in the days. I mean, they don't play perfect. Sometimes, there are idle larvae for Yellow or sometimes, he micros bad for a pro. If you're arrogant enough to think you could beat a pro even from the old days, you're a complete moron.
I'm bad, but if I could time travel I would soooo go back in time and beat skelton while offracing.
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On August 25 2009 07:01 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2009 06:43 Batibot wrote:On August 25 2009 06:12 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 24 2009 13:55 Gumbo wrote:On August 24 2009 13:53 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 24 2009 12:58 ssj114 wrote:
Jaedong proving he is the GOAT.
I find it hilarious that people are saying that it's the worst OSL in recent history or other bla bla bla.
Get over it. Jaedong is so clearly the GOAT. Straight up, Jaedong could beat any other player in history, but that doesn't necessarily make him the best. Well, actually, yes. It does. Actually, no. Has he shown the tactical genius and pure intelligence needed to truly dominate an era like Boxer, Oov, Nada, or Savior did? No. THAT is true greatness. Being able to know a game so well in your own generation that you can truly dominate the scene. Comparing two different generations is like comparing two different games - it makes you look like an idiot. Anyone with half a brain can watch Boxer play GARIMTO or Yellow way back in the day and see that it is basically a completely different game compared to now. When I watch Boxer vs Yellow year 2000 or something where Boxer won 3~2. I said, hey, these guys aren't that good and prolly if I practice enough, I can play like them. Actually, I'm believing we could beat the Boxer in year 2000. But, of course, it's already been 9 years after that, SO MANY strategies and whatnot developed. Now, I understand why they "sucked" back in the days. I mean, they don't play perfect. Sometimes, there are idle larvae for Yellow or sometimes, he micros bad for a pro. If you're arrogant enough to think you could beat a pro even from the old days, you're a complete moron.
Watch a really old pro VOD from Coca Cola OSL or about that time period. You might be surprised at just how bad the play is. I greatly respect Boxer and what he's done for the game, and back when I first learnt about progaming I hungrily watched all of his reps and played terran because of it. But today, some of the "flashy moves" that Boxer did 8 years ago can be done by random iccup koreans in their sleep.
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On August 24 2009 23:59 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2009 16:33 Sentenal wrote:On August 24 2009 13:24 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Out of 5 people that said (not merely agreed) this was the worst OSL AFTER the games were over:
3 were protoss players
4 were SKT T1 fans.
Am I implying something? Yes.
Only iamho was neither. Yes, I can see how a OSL that was more or less a 2 race tournament, that was filled with the most hated MU in Starcraft (ZvZ), topped off with a one-sided rape of a final that anyone could have predicted, makes for a great OSL. Strawman.
Okay, I have no idea what you mean by that. Strawman...?
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EPT
