(P)Violet<Neo Medusa>(T)Bogus Violet's on fire ahah i think he'll run over this B team noob.
(Z)815<God's Garden>(Z)Modesty ZvZ is always a tossup. But 815 has more experiance. Who knows.
(T)Flash<Outsider>(Z)Calm Highlight of the night. Both of these players are on FIRE. However, Calm has shown over and over he cant stand up against S-class players. I think Flash will run him over.
aren't they for sure not gonna make playoffs now?? (since khan beat lecaf)
Basically KT has to win this with Khan dropping one more game (That'd tie them up for losses and games won and I think KT may have better tie breakers, or maybe a tiebreaker game would be played who knows)
It's the same situation if KT loses this and Khan drops both games to MBC and Ace.
Not super likely, but it's a not a stretch to think KT can beat STX, while Khan drops a mishap of a game to one of the underdog teams.
I'd say Modesty would take this one. 815 isn't that great and Modesty is actually decent. I'm not too sure though
Flash<Outsider>Calm
I'm giving this one to Calm because Flash has shown that he just wants to do a bunch of greedy builds that play right into the hands of the cheesy Calm. The fact that there is a relatively safe base from the zerg just further pushes Flash to do one of his gay as shit builds.
HoeJJa<Heartbreak Ridge>YoonJoong
Could go either way. Lets hope for Hoejja
Flash<Destination>Any Player
Flash should take the game on destination. He fucking beasts this map.
Fomos has Khan at 29-24 and KT at 28-25. Khan is +4 on KT in terms of individual tiebreakers.
Which means each team should have two games left(five rounds of 11 games). So unless I'm mistaken, KT still has a fighting chance. If they can 3-0 or 3-1 this series, and Khan fails against Ace 0-3/1-3, they actually be neck-and-neck going into the final week. 3-0 followed by Khan's 0-3 would actually put KT ahead.
Of course, if KT fails, then they'd literally have to hope Khan stop winning not just matches, but all their indivdual games as well.
On July 06 2009 14:07 baubo wrote: Fomos has Khan at 29-24 and KT at 28-25. Khan is +4 on KT in terms of individual tiebreakers.
Which means each team should have two games left(five rounds of 11 games). So unless I'm mistaken, KT still has a fighting chance. If they can 3-0 or 3-1 this series, and Khan fails against Ace 0-3/1-3, they actually be neck-and-neck going into the final week. 3-0 followed by Khan's 0-3 would actually put KT ahead.
Of course, if KT fails, then they'd literally have to hope Khan stop winning not just matches, but all their indivdual games as well.
Translation Samsung goes to playoff unless they majorly, majorly fuck up against Airforce Ace and MBCgame.
On July 06 2009 14:07 baubo wrote: Fomos has Khan at 29-24 and KT at 28-25. Khan is +4 on KT in terms of individual tiebreakers.
Which means each team should have two games left(five rounds of 11 games). So unless I'm mistaken, KT still has a fighting chance. If they can 3-0 or 3-1 this series, and Khan fails against Ace 0-3/1-3, they actually be neck-and-neck going into the final week. 3-0 followed by Khan's 0-3 would actually put KT ahead.
Of course, if KT fails, then they'd literally have to hope Khan stop winning not just matches, but all their indivdual games as well.
Translation Samsung goes to playoff unless they majorly, majorly fuck up against Airforce Ace and MBCgame.
Which is, highly, highly unlikely
As a Khan fan I can definitely tell you that they're very, very capable of failing hard. If they weren't, KT wouldn't even have a chance at the playoffs right now.
But hopefully January's antics last week made the team focus though.
Too bad KT is probably out of the playoffs, but maybe that's just as well for Flash's individual career. In this series Flash > Calm, Violet > Bogus, and Flash > STX ace so KT has got this in the bag as long as they don't fuck up.
Violet has amazingly only played 4 PvTs all year (two of which were in GOM). His PvT ELO is actually below 2000, though he has won all four of his PvTs in 2009. This should be very interesting.
Flash versus Calm should also be very interesting, if for no other reason than to see Flash play another TvZ.
Bogus is playing fucking good, Fantasy esque vulture harass and play, with well prepared defence, this guy will be something in the future. Im really impressed by his play.
Violet breaks Bogus's force when he really shouldn't have been able to. All tanks go down along with some SCVs to another drop... Bogus GGs. Really good play from Violet at the end there.
Modesty somehow manages to be caught off guard and badly loses a fight that he definitely should have won (or at least come out ahead on). Now 815 is pulling off an improbable comeback ... completely blown game by Modesty.
That was one of the most blown ZvZ's I've seen. Modesty was ahead from the beginning when 815 canceled a 12 Hatch and had to build a Sunken while also losing a couple Drones and some mining time. Modesty had an earlier Spire and second Hatch too. Modesty basically wasn't watching or something when 815 engaged and had all his Scourges way out of position. Modesty was mining a second gas for quite awhile....
On July 06 2009 19:34 Vasoline73 wrote: Whoaaaaaaaa 815 won? Game is too laggy for me to fully understand but was that a comeback? looks like it. GG soon
Wasn't paying too much attention but I don't think either of them had a huge advantage at any point.
Wow, Modesty produced tons of scourges just to lose them immidiately and given his lower muta count got rolled over with muta-ling... Poor play by Modesty.
815 had more mutas since modesty open with a 9/overpool, and modesty expo to his nat (2 drones lost from hatch and extractor)
815 attacked into modesty's main with more mutas, but way lesser scourge, both players did not really clone their scourges fully, but 815 sent in 3lings to scout the muta count for cloning..
In the replay I saw 2 control groups of scourge for modesty. One control group was on hold position and killed *nothing*. The other control group went allin on one muta. Nice control rofl.
On July 06 2009 19:40 Lebesgue wrote: I don't think I hav ever seen worst scourge micro. On the replay it looked even worse than live...
It's hard to scourge clone when opponent rushes into your army, especially if u didnt group them properly for cloning..
Sure it is tough. But Modesty had easily over 12 scourges (probably more) and he managed to kill at most 2 mutas with them. Half of the scourges he lost when 815 rushed into his base and the other half went for one muta... I would expect more from a progamer.
Calm indeed going two Hatch, but gets a Hydra Den. Sloppily allows Flash to get two Drone kills with his first Vulture which he surprised Calm with by sending before Mines.
The problem with Flash is he tries these gimmicky builds on his teammates, of course they fucking work on Hoejja and Luxury. But as soon as they face real opposition they get annihilated!
What a subpar reaction by Flash. He didn't start a Turret in his main and he didn't try to delay the Lurkers walking up his ramp. Doing that would have at least given him a chance, especially since he killed way more Drones than he should have been allowed to.
On July 06 2009 20:01 HopLight wrote: The problem with Flash is he tries these gimmicky builds on his teammates, of course they fucking work on Hoejja and Luxury. But as soon as they face real opposition they get annihilated!
On July 06 2009 20:01 HopLight wrote: The problem with Flash is he tries these gimmicky builds on his teammates, of course they fucking work on Hoejja and Luxury. But as soon as they face real opposition they get annihilated!
On July 06 2009 20:01 HopLight wrote: The problem with Flash is he tries these gimmicky builds on his teammates, of course they fucking work on Hoejja and Luxury. But as soon as they face real opposition they get annihilated!
I wonder how many more holes need to be exposed in Flash's build before he gives up on it. Is it salvageable at this point? No matter how you cut it, the timing works out so you have like 3 fighting units well after Zerg gets Lair, with many possible followups.
On July 06 2009 20:01 HopLight wrote: The problem with Flash is he tries these gimmicky builds on his teammates, of course they fucking work on Hoejja and Luxury. But as soon as they face real opposition they get annihilated!
On July 06 2009 19:59 samachking wrote: Gay all in by calm T.T. Why do you have to beat Flash on his Bday
it was more of a calculated timing attack than an 'all-in' calm is a very smart player and i'm glad he showed it vs flash.
Really? How about if Flash went mine first and mined up his nat with vults first. Would that be considred all in then?
That's a good point. Against JD, Flash went Mines first, but here he went Charon first, perhaps due to the distance? Anyway Calm read him perfectly and rolled him.
Watching the replay, it really was a surprisingly bad reaction, especially by Flash's standards. He actually saw the Lurkers as they morphed, but I guess he got greedy and decided to try to hold his natural. Had he built a Turret in his main IMMEDIATELY, even while fighting for his natural (natural reaction), he at least gets to play on. It's not like he was going to lose his 2nd CC anyway ... if he holds that he wins for sure.
On July 06 2009 20:10 geod wrote: I already said Flash TvsZ is mediorce nowaday. He gets raped by A class Zerg again and again and again. Nothing suprise here.
Flash's current build versus Z is mediocre. The ridiculous part is there's basically nothing to suggest he can't play bionic and still roll most if not all other Zergs. But, the build lives ... I guess eventually he'll figure it out. But it's not going to happen in time to save him in the OSL.
At this point, even the Kwanro series in MSL worries me.
On July 06 2009 20:10 geod wrote: I already said Flash TvsZ is mediorce nowaday. He gets raped by A class Zerg again and again and again. Nothing suprise here.
Flash's current build versus Z is mediocre. The ridiculous part is there's basically nothing to suggest he can't play bionic and still roll most if not all other Zergs. But, the build lives ... I guess eventually he'll figure it out. But it's not going to happen in time to save him in the OSL.
At this point, even the Kwanro series in MSL worries me.
I think You know which build is good for Flash and he doesn't know. Right? Even he loses again and again and again. Right? Even he has to carry his team? A rape is a rape. Don't blame on build.
On July 06 2009 20:10 geod wrote: I already said Flash TvsZ is mediorce nowaday. He gets raped by A class Zerg again and again and again. Nothing suprise here.
Flash's current build versus Z is mediocre. The ridiculous part is there's basically nothing to suggest he can't play bionic and still roll most if not all other Zergs. But, the build lives ... I guess eventually he'll figure it out. But it's not going to happen in time to save him in the OSL.
At this point, even the Kwanro series in MSL worries me.
I think You know which build is good for Flash and he doesn't know. Right? Even he loses again and again and again. Right? Even he has to carry his team? A rape is a rape. Don't blame for build.
That doesn't make sense - that's like saying don't blame the build for losing 14CC. I mean yes, Flash is choosing the build, so I'm really blaming Flash, but the point is the build is the problem.
I really believe Flash thinks he can make this build work - a "solve all" like the "Flash build" kind of is TvP. My only point is that at the moment, it's not a very good build, and I don't think he has enough time to make it good before the current starleague season ends (which will be soon for him, if he doesn't figure out what to do versus Z, fast).
On July 06 2009 20:29 darktreb wrote: So if not for KT's first two wins, both of which were massive (and improbable) comebacks, this would be over.
Wow, KT, just wow.
It'd actually be 4-0 STX.
It's like the SC gods do everything in their power to get KT in the playoffs, but KT just won't have it. Even changing the name there's no "F" isn't preventing KT from failing.
On July 06 2009 20:29 darktreb wrote: So if not for KT's first two wins, both of which were massive (and improbable) comebacks, this would be over.
Wow, KT, just wow.
It'd actually be 4-0 STX.
It's like the SC gods do everything in their power to get KT in the playoffs, but KT just won't have it. Even changing the name there's no "F" isn't preventing KT from failing.
Yeah, that's what I mean. It's like KT was gifted two wins with Flash coming up and still couldn't make it happen.
Well, a Kal versus Flash ace match should be nice. At least Flash has been practicing TvP on Destination recently with games against BackHo and Yoon.
On July 06 2009 19:59 samachking wrote: Gay all in by calm T.T. Why do you have to beat Flash on his Bday
it was more of a calculated timing attack than an 'all-in' calm is a very smart player and i'm glad he showed it vs flash.
It was 2 hatch lurker, I can't believe you don't think that's all-in.
LOL man did you watch July vs Skyhigh ?
I think if July did 2 hatch lurker then it's officially an all-in build.
Yeah and after the "all-in" he raped Skyhigh with guardians .
Yes, when all-ins succeed, you tend to be able to do whatever you want afterward. Thanks for that observation.
So 2 hat lurkers/mutas is all - in ? and what if zerg gets a fast third base . 2 hat builds transition in to standart play even if you don't do lots of damage or kill your opponent . Go freaking watch July vs FBH on Chupung and him against Really on HBR and then tell me its an all - in . Its a more aggresive oppening just like 2 hat mutas instead of 3 hat .
On July 06 2009 20:34 GTR wrote: they really need to vary their ace picks, need to put violet in once a while.
Why would they do that at this stage of the season? 1) flash is trying for most total wins ie you want him to play more games to get more wins 2) flash is a better player than violet, and unless you have something funky planned, flash is more likely to win his game
If KT lose this there they're pretty much out iirc
On July 06 2009 20:34 GTR wrote: they really need to vary their ace picks, need to put violet in once a while.
Why would they do that at this stage of the season? 1) flash is trying for most total wins ie you want him to play more games to get more wins 2) flash is a better player than violet, and unless you have something funky planned, flash is more likely to win his game
If KT lose this there they're pretty much out iirc
i mean next season, of course it would be bone headed to not send out flash against a team like stx at the end of the season.
On July 06 2009 20:34 GTR wrote: they really need to vary their ace picks, need to put violet in once a while.
Why would they do that at this stage of the season? 1) flash is trying for most total wins ie you want him to play more games to get more wins 2) flash is a better player than violet, and unless you have something funky planned, flash is more likely to win his game
If KT lose this there they're pretty much out iirc
i mean next season, of course it would be bone headed to not send out flash against a team like stx at the end of the season.
Disappointing pick from STX. I have to think Kal's going to try some weird stuff, because I can't imagine him trying to play straight up on this turtle-friendly map.
Man I told myself I was going to go to the PC bang as soon as the match was over but that was 3 hours ago :-/ Gotta go at least once while I'm in South Korea.
On July 06 2009 20:40 d1sh0ng wrote: Man I told myself I was going to go to the PC bang as soon as the match was over but that was 3 hours ago :-/ Gotta go at least once while I'm in South Korea.
I'm in Jeonju about 2 and a half hours away. I was in Seoul for 3 days and our school group went to iPark for about 2 hours so I ran to the e-sports stadium and they were playing Special Force Proleague. :-(
On July 06 2009 20:34 GTR wrote: they really need to vary their ace picks, need to put violet in once a while.
Why would they do that at this stage of the season? 1) flash is trying for most total wins ie you want him to play more games to get more wins 2) flash is a better player than violet, and unless you have something funky planned, flash is more likely to win his game
If KT lose this there they're pretty much out iirc
i mean next season, of course it would be bone headed to not send out flash against a team like stx at the end of the season.
Well, Oz isn't doing too badly sending Jaedong every single ace match. Nor does Hite wiht Leta. T1 tried to be cute with ace matches, failed, and remembered they can just auto-pick Bisu every single time.
Only balanced teams like STX, CJ, and Samsung should ever bother with picking ace players.
On July 06 2009 20:40 d1sh0ng wrote: Man I told myself I was going to go to the PC bang as soon as the match was over but that was 3 hours ago :-/ Gotta go at least once while I'm in South Korea.
On July 06 2009 20:34 GTR wrote: they really need to vary their ace picks, need to put violet in once a while.
Why would they do that at this stage of the season? 1) flash is trying for most total wins ie you want him to play more games to get more wins 2) flash is a better player than violet, and unless you have something funky planned, flash is more likely to win his game
If KT lose this there they're pretty much out iirc
i mean next season, of course it would be bone headed to not send out flash against a team like stx at the end of the season.
Well, Oz isn't doing too badly sending Jaedong every single ace match. Nor does Hite wiht Leta. T1 tried to be cute with ace matches, failed, and remembered they can just auto-pick Bisu every single time.
Only balanced teams like STX, CJ, and Samsung should ever bother with picking ace players.
Long time ago, when Luxury was good, he was also legitimate choice for the ace match for KTF.
On July 06 2009 20:40 d1sh0ng wrote: Man I told myself I was going to go to the PC bang as soon as the match was over but that was 3 hours ago :-/ Gotta go at least once while I'm in South Korea.
why arent you there watching this game live!!
He prefered to read it live
Actually I have it on my television in the dorm here. I LRed the last match but I don't know how people liked it.
On July 06 2009 20:44 d1sh0ng wrote: I'm in Jeonju about 2 and a half hours away. I was in Seoul for 3 days and our school group went to iPark for about 2 hours so I ran to the e-sports stadium and they were playing Special Force Proleague. :-(
ahhhh ic school group? i assume some kind of school trip? i guess that means gg esports haha
Yea we hosted 5 korean students in January at our college and now we are at JeonJu University for 3 weeks. And if I didn't have sound design to do on the animation we are working on that is due in a week I would have no reservations on going to the PC bang but I there's work to be done.
On July 06 2009 20:34 GTR wrote: they really need to vary their ace picks, need to put violet in once a while.
Why would they do that at this stage of the season? 1) flash is trying for most total wins ie you want him to play more games to get more wins 2) flash is a better player than violet, and unless you have something funky planned, flash is more likely to win his game
If KT lose this there they're pretty much out iirc
i mean next season, of course it would be bone headed to not send out flash against a team like stx at the end of the season.
Well, Oz isn't doing too badly sending Jaedong every single ace match. Nor does Hite wiht Leta. T1 tried to be cute with ace matches, failed, and remembered they can just auto-pick Bisu every single time.
Only balanced teams like STX, CJ, and Samsung should ever bother with picking ace players.
Long time ago, when Luxury was good, he was also legitimate choice for the ace match for KTF.
Of course, since he's no longer good, there's no point. I guess if Violet really does blow up like people think he is, then yeah, you can switch up on protoss friendly maps. But given their current team makeup, there's no reason not to auto-pick Flash. Child labor FTW!
On July 06 2009 20:34 GTR wrote: they really need to vary their ace picks, need to put violet in once a while.
Why would they do that at this stage of the season? 1) flash is trying for most total wins ie you want him to play more games to get more wins 2) flash is a better player than violet, and unless you have something funky planned, flash is more likely to win his game
If KT lose this there they're pretty much out iirc
i mean next season, of course it would be bone headed to not send out flash against a team like stx at the end of the season.
Well, Oz isn't doing too badly sending Jaedong every single ace match. Nor does Hite wiht Leta. T1 tried to be cute with ace matches, failed, and remembered they can just auto-pick Bisu every single time.
Only balanced teams like STX, CJ, and Samsung should ever bother with picking ace players.
On July 06 2009 20:34 GTR wrote: they really need to vary their ace picks, need to put violet in once a while.
Why would they do that at this stage of the season? 1) flash is trying for most total wins ie you want him to play more games to get more wins 2) flash is a better player than violet, and unless you have something funky planned, flash is more likely to win his game
If KT lose this there they're pretty much out iirc
i mean next season, of course it would be bone headed to not send out flash against a team like stx at the end of the season.
Well, Oz isn't doing too badly sending Jaedong every single ace match. Nor does Hite wiht Leta. T1 tried to be cute with ace matches, failed, and remembered they can just auto-pick Bisu every single time.
Only balanced teams like STX, CJ, and Samsung should ever bother with picking ace players.
Strongly disagree. Any team that wants depth needs to have multiple viable ACE options. Only relying on one player is a huge risk and gamble. Sure in Jaedong's case it's paid off (but he's fucking inhuman). But every other player on Hwaesung will forever suck thanks to this. ex-MBC coach Ha famously put Sea[Shield] out to vs some guy in the ace match which decided whether they went to the playoffs or not (this was in 2005; Sea was literally a no name, i think the player was gorush). The decision to send Sea was shocking since they could have sent July (player of the year 2005) or Pusan (So1 semifinalist). Sea lost the game, but its experiences like that which made MBC the deepest team in Proleauge. For the 2006 season they had such a stacked lineup - July, Pusan, Sea, Light, Bisu plus two kickass 2v2 teams. Their stacked team won Proleague over SKT in the grand finals - and who was the ace player? Sea. Coach Ha's long term vision had paid off.
Those kind of experiences are vital if a team wants to bread depth and a strong team - not a strong player.
On July 06 2009 20:34 GTR wrote: they really need to vary their ace picks, need to put violet in once a while.
Why would they do that at this stage of the season? 1) flash is trying for most total wins ie you want him to play more games to get more wins 2) flash is a better player than violet, and unless you have something funky planned, flash is more likely to win his game
If KT lose this there they're pretty much out iirc
i mean next season, of course it would be bone headed to not send out flash against a team like stx at the end of the season.
Well, Oz isn't doing too badly sending Jaedong every single ace match. Nor does Hite wiht Leta. T1 tried to be cute with ace matches, failed, and remembered they can just auto-pick Bisu every single time.
Only balanced teams like STX, CJ, and Samsung should ever bother with picking ace players.
its all about building players confidence
Or tearing them down if they lose. It's risky proposition.
On July 06 2009 20:34 GTR wrote: they really need to vary their ace picks, need to put violet in once a while.
Why would they do that at this stage of the season? 1) flash is trying for most total wins ie you want him to play more games to get more wins 2) flash is a better player than violet, and unless you have something funky planned, flash is more likely to win his game
If KT lose this there they're pretty much out iirc
i mean next season, of course it would be bone headed to not send out flash against a team like stx at the end of the season.
Well, Oz isn't doing too badly sending Jaedong every single ace match. Nor does Hite wiht Leta. T1 tried to be cute with ace matches, failed, and remembered they can just auto-pick Bisu every single time.
Only balanced teams like STX, CJ, and Samsung should ever bother with picking ace players.
its all about building players confidence
Or tearing them down if they lose. It's risky proposition.
On July 06 2009 20:34 GTR wrote: they really need to vary their ace picks, need to put violet in once a while.
Why would they do that at this stage of the season? 1) flash is trying for most total wins ie you want him to play more games to get more wins 2) flash is a better player than violet, and unless you have something funky planned, flash is more likely to win his game
If KT lose this there they're pretty much out iirc
i mean next season, of course it would be bone headed to not send out flash against a team like stx at the end of the season.
Well, Oz isn't doing too badly sending Jaedong every single ace match. Nor does Hite wiht Leta. T1 tried to be cute with ace matches, failed, and remembered they can just auto-pick Bisu every single time.
Only balanced teams like STX, CJ, and Samsung should ever bother with picking ace players.
Strongly disagree. Any team that wants depth needs to have multiple viable ACE options. Only relying on one player is a huge risk and gamble. Sure in Jaedong's case it's paid off (but he's fucking inhuman). But every other player on Hwaesung will forever suck thanks to this. ex-MBC coach Ha famously put Sea[Shield] out to vs some guy in the ace match which decided whether they went to the playoffs or not (this was in 2005; Sea was literally a no name, i think the player was gorush). The decision to send Sea was shocking since they could have sent July (player of the year 2005) or Pusan (So1 semifinalist). Sea lost the game, but its experiences like that which made MBC the deepest team in Proleauge. For the 2006 season they had such a stacked lineup - July, Pusan, Sea, Light, Bisu plus two kickass 2v2 teams. Their stacked team won Proleague over SKT in the grand finals - and who was the ace player? Sea. Coach Ha's long term vision had paid off.
Those kind of experiences are vital if a team wants to bread depth and a strong team - not a strong player.
Your point only matters if the team is thinking long term. And there's nothing to suggest KT(or Oz or T1 for that matter) really are.
Sacrificing the future for the present is so common in today's world of instant satisfaction.
Arbiters upcoming for Kal as his Templar Archives and Stargate being built
Flash building 3rd CC in main Observer almost gets picked off in Flash's main by Goliaths. Starport being built as Flash occupies the center building Turrets as well.
DT drop in main as armies clash in center. DT's ripping apart main, comsat down
On July 06 2009 21:02 yoodeok wrote: Happy Birthday Flash. Thanks for the gift to all us Samsung fans. Sorry we didn't get you anything. We'll make it up to you. Promise.
Mathematically I think KT can still make it... But I think that means Khan has to lose every game 0-3 (including one against ACE) and KT has to 3-0 everyone
After the game Flash played against FBH to give KT a chance at the playoffs only to lose 0-2 and put the nail in your team's coffin must hurt even more.
On July 06 2009 21:02 sidesprang wrote: loosing twice on your birthday, making your team lose the game and their shot to advance to the playoffs is something that can send you into a slump.
On July 06 2009 21:01 Ra.Xor.2 wrote: welll.... they can if samsung lose twice
samsung have ace and mbc, arguably the two worst teams at the moment. i don't see them dropping both games against them unless something really weird happens.
edit: yeh kt plays skt in the final week, no chance at all.
On July 06 2009 21:02 Plexa wrote: Mathematically I think KT can still make it... But I think that means Khan has to lose every game 0-3 (including one against ACE) and KT has to 3-0 everyone
Ktf have no games left, and khan has to lose twice, lemme check to see how much they need to lose by.
On July 06 2009 21:01 Ra.Xor.2 wrote: welll.... they can if samsung lose twice
samsung have ace and mbc, arguably the two worst teams at the moment. i don't see them dropping both games against them unless something really weird happens.
On July 06 2009 21:02 Plexa wrote: Mathematically I think KT can still make it... But I think that means Khan has to lose every game 0-3 (including one against ACE) and KT has to 3-0 everyone
Ktf have no games left, and khan has to lose twice, lemme check to see how much they need to lose by.
On July 06 2009 21:01 Ra.Xor.2 wrote: welll.... they can if samsung lose twice
samsung have ace and mbc, arguably the two worst teams at the moment. i don't see them dropping both games against them unless something really weird happens.
dont samsung have ace and hwasung?
they already played hwaseung earlier this week and they won 3-1.
On July 06 2009 21:02 Plexa wrote: Mathematically I think KT can still make it... But I think that means Khan has to lose every game 0-3 (including one against ACE) and KT has to 3-0 everyone
Its not quite that bad, KTF is -4, Samsung +1, so if Samsung loses both 2-3 and KTF 3-0 it would be enough for an ace game! FBH vs Flash rematch maybe
Well, I rather KT not make the playoffs this season and go for it next year when Forgg and Luxury STOP sucking. Give Flash a chance to play for the individual leagues. Stop burning him out KT... His play certainly hasn't been top form.
On July 06 2009 21:01 Ra.Xor.2 wrote: welll.... they can if samsung lose twice
samsung have ace and mbc, arguably the two worst teams at the moment. i don't see them dropping both games against them unless something really weird happens.
dont samsung have ace and hwasung?
they already played hwaseung earlier this week and they won 3-1.
ace tommorow then mbc next monday.
ahhh sry, im on vacation and havent watched any of the games :[
On July 06 2009 21:02 yoodeok wrote: Happy Birthday Flash. Thanks for the gift to all us Samsung fans. Sorry we didn't get you anything. We'll make it up to you. Promise.
On July 06 2009 21:01 Ra.Xor.2 wrote: welll.... they can if samsung lose twice
samsung have ace and mbc, arguably the two worst teams at the moment. i don't see them dropping both games against them unless something really weird happens.
dont samsung have ace and hwasung?
Considering they just beat Oz 3-1... No.
In terms of math,
If Khan goes 1-6 or 0-6, KT is in if they win. If Khan goes 2-6, KT is in if they win 3-1. Tie if they win 3-2.
And it goes from there.
In reality, Khan will likely just dismantle Ace tomorrow and end the drama altogether.
I hope Samsung beats ACE so KT doesn't even think they have a chance to make the playoffs, and for the first time all year (except for like that one time Luxury all-killed) sit Flash out of a Proleague match. Even if it is against SKT1.
On July 06 2009 21:08 Lebesgue wrote: Flash is just way too greedy... He got his 3rd way too early and got punished by fast dt into arbiters, cheesy but popular strat...
it's common to do that against a fast nexus to rush for that quick third, but yes, he rushed a bit too fast.
On July 06 2009 21:03 d1sh0ng wrote: I would seriously worry about STX in the playoffs. They have been playing superbly and could make a serious run.
ye, not only do they have a nice streak, but lot's of players who can win games: Calm, Kal, Modesty, Hwasin, July… they could make a real upset in the playoffs.
in the mvp interview Kal expressed how the young Flash is precious to him and how he's worried for Flash, who lost twice. i guess he pretty much feels sorry that stx ground flash and his team into the ground on his birthday, just as ktf got a glimmer of hope to reach the playoffs.
On July 06 2009 21:08 Lebesgue wrote: Flash is just way too greedy... He got his 3rd way too early and got punished by fast dt into arbiters, cheesy but popular strat...
Flash was just way too predictable these 2 games and STX took advantage of it. Man two 0-2's this round and the last round against Samsung. PLEASE Flash please win vs Effort...
And now i understand why KT coach keep sending out Forgg even on Ace. Those games are such a sad rape. It's not even funny. Flash is very mediorce nowaday. He always tries to win game by his greedy build not by his skill. Maybe his skill is not enough anymore.
On July 06 2009 21:02 yoodeok wrote: Happy Birthday Flash. Thanks for the gift to all us Samsung fans. Sorry we didn't get you anything. We'll make it up to you. Promise.
LOL.... thats cold man.
Yeah, I'm joking somewhat, but during the Samsung-Hwaseung game there was a KT fan in the audience with a banner saying "Hwaseung, please win 3:0! PS. KT fan" so :3
On July 06 2009 21:11 geod wrote: And now i understand why KT coach keep sending out Forgg even on Ace. Those games are such a sad rape. It's not even funny. Flash is very mediorce nowaday. He always tries to win game by his greedy build not by his skill. Maybe his skill is not enough anymore.
Anything ForGG can do Flash can do better. Flash just fucked up... a lot.
On July 06 2009 21:07 nozaro33 wrote: Well, I rather KT not make the playoffs this season and go for it next year when Forgg and Luxury STOP sucking. Give Flash a chance to play for the individual leagues. Stop burning him out KT... His play certainly hasn't been top form.
you know I guess youre kinda right but still fuck think about how flash must feel after this :/ I'm not sure he can just shake it off and play his top form in the individual leagues now Although then again his opponents in OSL and GOM are very doable for him
as bad as i feel for flash losing twice on his birthday... HE FUCKING DESERVES IT! every noob from D- up to s-class players like him must know that being THAT greedy will get u fucked in the ass hard in over 50% of ur games. it often times is said that adaptability is one of the key skills to becoming an s-class player. lately flash doesnt seem to learn anything from his defeats. sry, but a player that makes the same stupid mistake again and again deserves to be punished for his stupidity.
seriously, flash seems like he got wound up in these greedy builds and is not even able to let these ideas down and stick to the safer builds... i like him and i really hope he can find back his form.
On July 06 2009 21:11 dasanivan wrote: in the mvp interview Kal expressed how the young Flash is precious to him and how he's worried for Flash, who lost twice. i guess he pretty much feels sorry that stx ground flash and his team into the ground on his birthday, just as ktf got a glimmer of hope to reach the playoffs.
Good manners. I hope Flash can get himself together for the individual leagues, and for next season he either gets sold, or they get someone decent besides him to KT. I'm not trusting a Luxury/ForGG revival (I dont like them:-p), maybe their best chance is Violet.
On July 06 2009 21:11 geod wrote: And now i understand why KT coach keep sending out Forgg even on Ace. Those games are such a sad rape. It's not even funny. Flash is very mediorce nowaday. He always tries to win game by his greedy build not by his skill. Maybe his skill is not enough anymore.
Anything ForGG can do Flash can do better. Flash just fucked up... a lot.
On July 06 2009 21:11 geod wrote: And now i understand why KT coach keep sending out Forgg even on Ace. Those games are such a sad rape. It's not even funny. Flash is very mediorce nowaday. He always tries to win game by his greedy build not by his skill. Maybe his skill is not enough anymore.
flash has a history of being greedy. mediocre isn't the appropriate word for flash, just watch any game from 'nowaday' that he wins.
On July 06 2009 21:11 geod wrote: And now i understand why KT coach keep sending out Forgg even on Ace. Those games are such a sad rape. It's not even funny. Flash is very mediorce nowaday. He always tries to win game by his greedy build not by his skill. Maybe his skill is not enough anymore.
flash has a history of being greedy. mediocre isn't the appropriate word for flash, just watch any game from 'nowaday' that he wins.
how exactly do you win with skill alone?
Ok,maybe it's a little bit exageration but i means Flash is not S class anymore with his play :D
On July 06 2009 21:11 dasanivan wrote: in the mvp interview Kal expressed how the young Flash is precious to him and how he's worried for Flash, who lost twice. i guess he pretty much feels sorry that stx ground flash and his team into the ground on his birthday, just as ktf got a glimmer of hope to reach the playoffs.
And that's why Kal is one of my favourite players.
On July 06 2009 21:11 geod wrote: And now i understand why KT coach keep sending out Forgg even on Ace. Those games are such a sad rape. It's not even funny. Flash is very mediorce nowaday. He always tries to win game by his greedy build not by his skill. Maybe his skill is not enough anymore.
flash has a history of being greedy. mediocre isn't the appropriate word for flash, just watch any game from 'nowaday' that he wins.
how exactly do you win with skill alone?
Ok,maybe it's a little bit exageration but i means Flash is not S class anymore with his play :D
i agree, even though flash is good enough to beat most of the field with his style I know deep within my heart that S class players have what it takes to dismantle his builds. i knew he would lose to yellow, i knew he would lose to jaedong, and i knew he would lose to Kal.
the only S class players that cannot beat him are terran.
On July 06 2009 21:11 geod wrote: And now i understand why KT coach keep sending out Forgg even on Ace. Those games are such a sad rape. It's not even funny. Flash is very mediorce nowaday. He always tries to win game by his greedy build not by his skill. Maybe his skill is not enough anymore.
flash has a history of being greedy. mediocre isn't the appropriate word for flash, just watch any game from 'nowaday' that he wins.
how exactly do you win with skill alone?
Ok,maybe it's a little bit exageration but i means Flash is not S class anymore with his play :D
i agree, even though flash is good enough to beat most of the field with his style I know deep within my heart that S class players have what it takes to dismantle his builds. i knew he would lose to yellow, i knew he would lose to jaedong, and i knew he would lose to Kal.
the only S class players that cannot beat him are terran.
Are you implying that Yellow[arnc] is S-class, while Flash is not? lol
On July 06 2009 21:14 Black Gun wrote: as bad as i feel for flash losing twice on his birthday... HE FUCKING DESERVES IT! every noob from D- up to s-class players like him must know that being THAT greedy will get u fucked in the ass hard in over 50% of ur games. it often times is said that adaptability is one of the key skills to becoming an s-class player. lately flash doesnt seem to learn anything from his defeats. sry, but a player that makes the same stupid mistake again and again deserves to be punished for his stupidity.
seriously, flash seems like he got wound up in these greedy builds and is not even able to let these ideas down and stick to the safer builds... i like him and i really hope he can find back his form.
On July 06 2009 21:26 MrHoon wrote: I love how we criticize flash's failure yet he sits on a 67% win percentage.
I was gonna say exactly that "will get u fucked in the ass hard in over 50% of ur games"... right... thats why hes on top with most wins with Jaedong and Bisu... Jesus the boy loses 2 games and idiots like you are all over him
Something thats also pretty interesting: Whenever S-class players like Jaedong/Bisu/Flash lose.. its kinda interesting how its always their fault, it's never cause their opponent played great... weird isnt it
Yellow[Arnc] Has been known as the ultimate terran killer since 2007. No shame losing to yellow[arnc]. Even flash said playing against yellow[arnc] is worse than playing against Jaedong and PreFail-Luxury combined.
And seriously guys, this whole "lol flash isn't s-class" discussion has been going on ever since he dropped from OSL against GGplay and MSL against yellow. Yet he always stood at 67% win percentage. GEE HURR
Flash does not 'choke' against high class players. Its just that he suffers the same problem with Bisu: He always loses at the most important game.
On July 06 2009 21:35 MrHoon wrote: Yellow[Arnc] Has been known as the ultimate terran killer since 2007. No shame losing to yellow[arnc]. Even flash said playing against yellow[arnc] is worse than playing against Jaedong and PreFail-Luxury combined.
And seriously guys, this whole "lol flash isn't s-class" discussion has been going on ever since he dropped from OSL against GGplay and MSL against yellow. Yet he always stood at 67% win percentage. GEE HURR
Flash does not 'choke' against high class players. Its just that he suffers the same problem with Bisu: He always loses at the most important game.
Why on earth did Flash take yarnc over to his group then ? O_o
On July 06 2009 21:14 Black Gun wrote: as bad as i feel for flash losing twice on his birthday... HE FUCKING DESERVES IT! every noob from D- up to s-class players like him must know that being THAT greedy will get u fucked in the ass hard in over 50% of ur games. it often times is said that adaptability is one of the key skills to becoming an s-class player. lately flash doesnt seem to learn anything from his defeats. sry, but a player that makes the same stupid mistake again and again deserves to be punished for his stupidity.
seriously, flash seems like he got wound up in these greedy builds and is not even able to let these ideas down and stick to the safer builds... i like him and i really hope he can find back his form.
On July 06 2009 21:26 MrHoon wrote: I love how we criticize flash's failure yet he sits on a 67% win percentage.
I was gonna say exactly that "will get u fucked in the ass hard in over 50% of ur games"... right... thats why hes on top with most wins with Jaedong and Bisu... Jesus the boy loses 2 games and idiots like you are all over him
Well, more and more I get the feeling that "these idiots" have a point. His win percentage of course is extraordinary. But it is undenieable that he has problems to win against the best of the best regularly. I always thought Flash is awesome but I kinda feel lately that he is overrated. The way he loses games sometimes is just painful to watch.
On July 06 2009 21:11 geod wrote: And now i understand why KT coach keep sending out Forgg even on Ace. Those games are such a sad rape. It's not even funny. Flash is very mediorce nowaday. He always tries to win game by his greedy build not by his skill. Maybe his skill is not enough anymore.
flash has a history of being greedy. mediocre isn't the appropriate word for flash, just watch any game from 'nowaday' that he wins.
how exactly do you win with skill alone?
Ok,maybe it's a little bit exageration but i means Flash is not S class anymore with his play :D
i agree, even though flash is good enough to beat most of the field with his style I know deep within my heart that S class players have what it takes to dismantle his builds. i knew he would lose to yellow, i knew he would lose to jaedong, and i knew he would lose to Kal.
the only S class players that cannot beat him are terran.
Are you implying that Yellow[arnc] is S-class, while Flash is not? lol
i didn't mean to associate yellow with S-class players, but his aggressive play is about what it takes to take out flash before midgame, so i mentioned him.
and I'm afraid I do have to say that Flash is among the weak S class players, except versus Terran.
On July 06 2009 21:35 MrHoon wrote: Yellow[Arnc] Has been known as the ultimate terran killer since 2007. No shame losing to yellow[arnc]. Even flash said playing against yellow[arnc] is worse than playing against Jaedong and PreFail-Luxury combined.
And seriously guys, this whole "lol flash isn't s-class" discussion has been going on ever since he dropped from OSL against GGplay and MSL against yellow. Yet he always stood at 67% win percentage. GEE HURR
Flash does not 'choke' against high class players. Its just that he suffers the same problem with Bisu: He always loses at the most important game.
Why on earth did Flash take yarnc over to his group then ? O_o
(I do agree with you though)
I am assuming you are talking about the MSL where yarnc just DESTROYED flash
This was the reason
Flash: "lol lux couldnt com 2 msl so i pik brother insted" Yellow: "my brother sux mor than me why u pik me fool?" Flash: "fuck really?" Yellow: "LOL I KILL U WITH ONLY MUTALISKS AND NO SPIRES" Flash: "omg D:"
edit: I think I'm going to write an article about Flash sometime this week. I want to study how hard he is failing
At least Flash has been owning in TvT lately. He has beaten all te top TvTer out there nd sits at ridiculous 70.5% winrate. But the other two match-ups don't look that good. Especially his TvZ.
On July 06 2009 21:14 Black Gun wrote: as bad as i feel for flash losing twice on his birthday... HE FUCKING DESERVES IT! every noob from D- up to s-class players like him must know that being THAT greedy will get u fucked in the ass hard in over 50% of ur games. it often times is said that adaptability is one of the key skills to becoming an s-class player. lately flash doesnt seem to learn anything from his defeats. sry, but a player that makes the same stupid mistake again and again deserves to be punished for his stupidity.
seriously, flash seems like he got wound up in these greedy builds and is not even able to let these ideas down and stick to the safer builds... i like him and i really hope he can find back his form.
On July 06 2009 21:26 MrHoon wrote: I love how we criticize flash's failure yet he sits on a 67% win percentage.
I was gonna say exactly that "will get u fucked in the ass hard in over 50% of ur games"... right... thats why hes on top with most wins with Jaedong and Bisu... Jesus the boy loses 2 games and idiots like you are all over him
Well, more and more I get the feeling that "these idiots" are right. His win percentage of course is extraordinary. But it is undenieable that he has problems to win against the best of the best regularly. I always thought Flash is awesome but I kinda feel lately that he is overrated. The way he loses games sometimes is just painful to watch.
Well who exactly can say that he wins games against the best of the best really regularly? Jaedong and... hm and I dont see whats specifically so painful about flash's losing games - maybe if flash had killed those observers with his goliaths after he scanned Kal hadnt done this wonderfully executed attack and if you just let flash do his thing without being very aggressive in PvT its almost impossible to win against him. Flash sometimes is a bit greedy yes, now compare that do Jaedong, he is sometimes overly aggressive .. look at JD vs Stork, to me that game was a lot more painful to watch, but hes still undoubtedly S class. Also whats the reason Jaedong lost vs movie? Right, he was too greedy to get ling speed.
But for some reason as soon as flash loses games (hello hes still in OSL and GOM tv by the way and his MSL group was ridiculously tough) people claim hes stupid. Seems like noone even remembers games like FBH vs Flash as soon as he loses.
On July 06 2009 21:26 MrHoon wrote: I love how we criticize flash's failure yet he sits on a 67% win percentage.
Flash IMO is absolutely the best at bashing lesser players. If you don't have the mechanics to keep up with Flash, then he can literally just pick you apart like nothing. I've seen so many TvPs where the protoss gets a big advantage early game. But then Flash push -> GG. That's why he's unbeatable TvT, because the matchup is so based on making reactionary decisions and ability to control the map. Something that Flash excels at. I am constantly amazed at how well he can control the situation at any given time.
But I still can't say Flash is favored TvZ and TvP over the top zergs and protosses. Because in those matchups, opponents can counter Flash's build specifically. And S-class ZvT/PvT players do have the mechanics to keep up with flash. And that plus they can guess Flash's intentions, give them a huge edge.
Don't you think the Flash bashing is getting a bit too harsh? Being a Flash fan I have to admit, his play hasn't been top notch, I had the gut feeling that he would lose to Kal and I was tedious when I saw him do his new build vs Calm. But seriously man, Flash is playing in every single PL game, OSL, MSL GOM (3 individual leagues) His play hasn't been S-class is probably do to fatigue and perhaps lack of practice.
Yes you can argue Jaedong is in the same position as he is, But haven't you watched Stork vs Jaedong? It was pathetic, but I don't see anybody flaming him. Kal and Calm basically exploited Flash's weakness in his builds. Let's just hope Flash can get things together and concentrate on the individual leagues now KT doesn't have a chance to get to the playoffs. (Ironically, thanks to him)
On July 06 2009 21:14 Black Gun wrote: as bad as i feel for flash losing twice on his birthday... HE FUCKING DESERVES IT! every noob from D- up to s-class players like him must know that being THAT greedy will get u fucked in the ass hard in over 50% of ur games. it often times is said that adaptability is one of the key skills to becoming an s-class player. lately flash doesnt seem to learn anything from his defeats. sry, but a player that makes the same stupid mistake again and again deserves to be punished for his stupidity.
seriously, flash seems like he got wound up in these greedy builds and is not even able to let these ideas down and stick to the safer builds... i like him and i really hope he can find back his form.
On July 06 2009 21:26 MrHoon wrote: I love how we criticize flash's failure yet he sits on a 67% win percentage.
I was gonna say exactly that "will get u fucked in the ass hard in over 50% of ur games"... right... thats why hes on top with most wins with Jaedong and Bisu... Jesus the boy loses 2 games and idiots like you are all over him
Well, more and more I get the feeling that "these idiots" are right. His win percentage of course is extraordinary. But it is undenieable that he has problems to win against the best of the best regularly. I always thought Flash is awesome but I kinda feel lately that he is overrated. The way he loses games sometimes is just painful to watch.
Well who exactly can say that he wins games against the best of the best really regularly? Jaedong and... hm and I dont see whats specifically so painful about flash's losing games - maybe if flash had killed those observers with his goliaths after he scanned Kal hadnt done this wonderfully executed attack and if you just let flash do his thing without being very aggressive in PvT its almost impossible to win against him. Flash sometimes is a bit greedy yes, now compare that do Jaedong, he is sometimes overly aggressive .. look at JD vs Stork, to me that game was a lot more painful to watch, but hes still undoubtedly S class. Also whats the reason Jaedong lost vs movie? Right, he was too greedy to get ling speed.
But for some reason as soon as flash loses games (hello hes still in OSL and GOM tv by the way and his MSL group was ridiculously tough) people claim hes stupid. Seems like noone even remembers games like FBH vs Flash as soon as he loses.
You have the leagues mixed up, he is in MSL Ro16 (and actually still can advance in the OSL, but it is unlikely).
And of course I agree, Kal played a wonderful game here, exploiting Flashs build perfectly with flawless execution.
For me it is rather simple: To be convinced that Flash is as good as we all think he is, he needs to go really far in individual leagues again. That is basically where I see the diffeence between Flash and other S-Class players right now: JD and Bisu recently won leagues, Fantasy was in two finals and so was Jangbi, although he is slumping at the moment (not counting GOM right here, beause I think the competition this season is rather lackluster there).Anyway, if I remember correctly, Flashs last semi final appearence was in ARENA MSL. that is a really long time ago in terms of pro starcraft.
On July 06 2009 21:55 nozaro33 wrote: Don't you think the Flash bashing is getting a bit too harsh? Being a Flash fan I have to admit, his play hasn't been top notch, I had the gut feeling that he would lose to Kal and I was tedious when I saw him do his new build vs Calm. But seriously man, Flash is playing in every single PL game, OSL, MSL GOM (3 individual leagues) His play hasn't been S-class is probably do to fatigue and perhaps lack of practice.
Yes you can argue Jaedong is in the same position as he is, But haven't you watched Stork vs Jaedong? It was pathetic, but I don't see anybody flaming him. Kal and Calm basically exploited Flash's weakness in his builds. Let's just hope Flash can get things together and concentrate on the individual leagues now KT doesn't have a chance to get to the playoffs. (Ironically, thanks to him)
you're right, stork vs jaedong was pretty horrific. its proof that even S class players can't win every single game, and flash is no exception.
Should have sent 정ㅋ벅ㅋ for the decider where he would have 'timed' his bunker rush. 20/20 hindsight.
KT fail in their last ditch attempt to qualify for the playoffs. I suppose now Flash can concentrate on his MSL and GOM (and OSL if he progress out of the group).
On July 06 2009 21:14 Black Gun wrote: as bad as i feel for flash losing twice on his birthday... HE FUCKING DESERVES IT! every noob from D- up to s-class players like him must know that being THAT greedy will get u fucked in the ass hard in over 50% of ur games. it often times is said that adaptability is one of the key skills to becoming an s-class player. lately flash doesnt seem to learn anything from his defeats. sry, but a player that makes the same stupid mistake again and again deserves to be punished for his stupidity.
seriously, flash seems like he got wound up in these greedy builds and is not even able to let these ideas down and stick to the safer builds... i like him and i really hope he can find back his form.
On July 06 2009 21:26 MrHoon wrote: I love how we criticize flash's failure yet he sits on a 67% win percentage.
I was gonna say exactly that "will get u fucked in the ass hard in over 50% of ur games"... right... thats why hes on top with most wins with Jaedong and Bisu... Jesus the boy loses 2 games and idiots like you are all over him
Well, more and more I get the feeling that "these idiots" are right. His win percentage of course is extraordinary. But it is undenieable that he has problems to win against the best of the best regularly. I always thought Flash is awesome but I kinda feel lately that he is overrated. The way he loses games sometimes is just painful to watch.
Well who exactly can say that he wins games against the best of the best really regularly? Jaedong and... hm and I dont see whats specifically so painful about flash's losing games - maybe if flash had killed those observers with his goliaths after he scanned Kal hadnt done this wonderfully executed attack and if you just let flash do his thing without being very aggressive in PvT its almost impossible to win against him. Flash sometimes is a bit greedy yes, now compare that do Jaedong, he is sometimes overly aggressive .. look at JD vs Stork, to me that game was a lot more painful to watch, but hes still undoubtedly S class. Also whats the reason Jaedong lost vs movie? Right, he was too greedy to get ling speed.
But for some reason as soon as flash loses games (hello hes still in OSL and GOM tv by the way and his MSL group was ridiculously tough) people claim hes stupid. Seems like noone even remembers games like FBH vs Flash as soon as he loses.
You have the leagues mixed up, he is in MSL Ro16 (and actually still can advance in the OSL, but it is unlikely).
And of course I agree, Kal played a wonderful game here, exploiting Flashs build perfectly with flawless execution.
For me it is rather simple: To be convinced that Flash is as good as we all think he is, he needs to go really far in individual leagues again. That is basically where I see the diffeence between Flash and other S-Class players right now: JD and Bisu recently won leagues, Fantasy was in two finals and so was Jangbi, although he is slumping at the moment (not counting GOM right here, beause I think the competition this season is rather lackluster there).Anyway, if I remember correctly, Flashs last semi final appearence was in ARENA MSL. that is a really long time ago in terms of pro starcraft.
Well, fair enough And I think he will make both the msl as well as the gom finals. Other S class players might be in better shape right now but except for Jaedong they all have it so much easier than him.
On July 07 2009 00:13 Heimatloser wrote: lol @ "flash is back in shape" he is just dropping out of an all zerg osl qualifier, being terran! he loses right and left to everyone everywhere.
i say: fOrGG is the new Flash! (and i say that as fan)
Lol you make it sound like Flash was supposed to win simply because.... T>>>Z?? what? Maybe your reasoning is he only had on mu to practice but it's Jaedong Flash Effort, the 3 best ZvTers in the world right now.
And lol@forgg.. he sucks man, do you even have the slightest clue what you are talking about? I really hope your trolling or something look at leta vs forgg to see what happens when the KT coach is silly enough not to send flash for ae math
On July 07 2009 00:13 Heimatloser wrote: lol @ "flash is back in shape" he is just dropping out of an all zerg osl qualifier, being terran! he loses right and left to everyone everywhere.
i say: fOrGG is the new Flash! (and i say that as fan)
I hope something really bad happens to you for saying that.
On July 07 2009 02:59 APurpleCow wrote: Lol @ saying Jaedong isn't doing too good because an all-in failed.
Actually I don't think anyone was saying that at all. I was just using him as comparison to make the argument that Flash isn't a bad player only because he loses some games. (Cause even JD loses some games badly and its hard to argue against JD being the best player in the world right now)
literally he loses every game trying to cut some huge corner and get up another base with basically no units.
against calm he had 3 vults no mines, 1-2 goals, and a bunker with 1 marine by the time calm ran up his ramp with like 4-5 lurks. yeah your tech is up and your economy is great but you just got run over by 4 lurkers.
against kal he had no ebay! i know this is a cool trend to go starport/academy and no ebay, but i feel for your 3rd base with no wraith and no scan energy (not to mention all your gols have to be with your tanks so they cant cover the main) an ebay might not set you back that far! GAHHHHHHHH
dont even get me started on his osl game against yarnc
(although i must admit that kal and Jaedong played pretty well. those 2 were kinda legit losses, as opposed to just flash being retarded losses.)
On July 07 2009 03:31 Ideas wrote: STX has 9 wins now, which is already 1 more than any team has gotten in a single round this Proleague (best has been 8-3).
On July 07 2009 03:35 dnosrc wrote: CJ was 9:2 in r3
I just saw Flash play extremely well in Gom (first match was mindblowing) and then this shit, MEH. I can't believe that he makes the same mistake over and over again,, as in OSL vs Jae and Yarnc
On July 07 2009 07:57 TheTeamLiquidTiger wrote: flash should learn to play a straight up game and not cut corners and lose so miserably
he knows how... he has done it often. he just gets greedy really quickly. flash doesn't need to learn shit, he just needs to play a bit more standard since his level is very good
On July 07 2009 09:43 soudo wrote: I think Flash just had a bad day. I'd still say that he's only an underdog against Jaedong or Bisu. I would bet on him against anyone else.
I just LB against him on his game against EffOrt
But yeah, Flash is still one of the best players on the SC scene, one of the top 3 terrans out there by anyone's reckoning, the best terran according to some. Even counting these two losses, he still has a spectacular record for his last 15 or so proleague games.
Just one bad day for Flash (it was his birthday? or something?)... maybe he was drunk (jk) He still is the best Terran and he is going to beat effort! (but yarnc is going to win the tie break)
How could flash lose like this? Both Violet and 815 won their games despite being at a huge disadvantage more than one time, it felt like those guys really really wanted a 3-0 for KT so that they would still have some kind of chance on the playoff
I just got done casting all these games and WOW flash looked devastated.
talk about a shitty birthday...
But really a team cant rely on just one player to carry them along. Sure he is their best player, but stuff happens, it is equally as important for everyone to win their matches.
On July 07 2009 13:44 HuskyTheHusky wrote: I just got done casting all these games and WOW flash looked devastated.
talk about a shitty birthday...
But really a team cant rely on just one player to carry them along. Sure he is their best player, but stuff happens, it is equally as important for everyone to win their matches.
KT fans, get real. This team had all year to figure it out, picking up two MSL winners in the process, and never did. This team found ways to blow matches like no other team I've ever seen, and even required the "miracle game" ace match to beat Samsung's B team. As much as it would be nice to believe that getting into the playoffs they would have turned it around, it was highly unlikely.
And in the end, it was Flash, the same Flash who won FIFTY THREE games for KT this year, and singlehandedly kept the team afloat, that finally collapsed. In some ways it was fitting.
Having said all that, I actually think KT is going to be a force to be reckoned with next season, kind of like how SKT1 finally figured it out after a dismal first couple of rounds. CJ had a really rough time of it last season but their talent came through in the end and now they're looking like SC's deepest team. It might have been a blessing in disguise for Luxury and ForGG to suck so much, because only then was the KT coaching staff willing to play guys like Hoejja and 815.
Luxury and ForGG will figure it out again eventually, Flash will continue being Flash (0-2 or not, he has won FIFTY THREE games in 54 matches this year), and if Violet, Hoejja, and 815 can perform serviceably, there's no chance of KT missing the playoffs again.
On July 07 2009 03:31 Ideas wrote: STX has 9 wins now, which is already 1 more than any team has gotten in a single round this Proleague (best has been 8-3).
EPT
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Violet<Neo Medusa>
Bogus![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/31.jpg)
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815<God's Garden>![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/424.jpg)
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![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/86.jpg)
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ahah i think he'll run over this B team noob.
![[image loading]](http://homepages.nyu.edu/~ef820/starcraft/zvz.png)
