On June 30 2009 18:26 Kuja900 wrote: 3-1 STX, easy call imo.
Not really, each one of JD's back ups can easily upset, heck Backho is a favorite over Kal statistically considering their records vs each other. Prediction: JD win, back up win, then ace match where JD destroys kal's reaver/sair.
On June 30 2009 18:26 Kuja900 wrote: 3-1 STX, easy call imo.
Not really, each one of JD's back ups can easily upset, heck Backho is a favorite over Kal statistically considering their records vs each other. Prediction: JD win, back up win, then ace match where JD destroys kal's reaver/sair.
could happen. but i consider kals pvp and hwasins tvt much stronger than backhos and lomos. the stats even 'proof' that. i don't give much about stats though. but the overall impression of kal and hwasin is much better than backhos and lomos. in my opinion at least and i really don't see hiya win against calm.
but i don't really care about the result and i always love to see upsets
Jaedong<Heartbreak Ridge>Modesty Destruction. Modesty's good and getting better, but not there yet. As for Jaedong, well.
Lomo<Shades of Twilight>Hwasin Coming off a long streak of so-so results for this superstar, I expect the Red Sniper to decisively beat Lomo. Whether it be early on or tactical destruction, Hwasin's just been making all the right in-game decisions lately, besides playing a zerg (zero) on Holy World.
BackHo<Destination>Kal Kal's last few matches have been PvP from my recollection, and all of them wins. Goojilla's consistent inconsistency in the past, however, has me putting this one on coinflip-like odds. I'm giving Backho slightly more credit than he deserves I think, because I'm fond of his innovative and funny style. 51% Kal, 49% Backho.
HiyA<Neo Medusa>Calm I'm sorry, but HiyA hasn't been putting up too of good results lately anyway. And Calm is just on a tear that I can't see HiyA's mech breaking.
Jaedong is like Federer. He just needs to win a few more "grand slams" to be considered the greatest of all time with no contest. His statistics are already just ridiculous.
Game summary: Modesty 12 pools, JD 12 hatches. Modesty gets speedlings in JD's base and kills a bunch of drones. He has almost as many lings as JD + a sunken at home to defend the counter. JD sends all his lings in what looks like a formality prior to gg'ing. JD's lings kill everything. GG.
it's so obvious that he hacks I don't know why he's still allowed to play in leagues
Jaedong just attacked with the better flank, getting more of his zerglings to the front line than Modesty. He chose the perfect time right before mutas came out to strike.
On June 30 2009 18:55 Harem wrote: I still don't get how JD crushed Modesty at Modesty's nat when the ling counts were similar enough and Modesty had a sunken though.
Due to his "All-time best Zerg" status, JD can research Adrenal Glands at Tier 1 for 25 min/25 gas. Hence his lings raping. I see no other reasonable explanation.
On June 30 2009 18:56 Malinor wrote: Even in the replay I do not get how he breaks the sunken and has still 10lings left. It did not look like he had that many lings.
According to TLPD, Jaedong has more televised wins than iloveoov.
Jaedong has a 237-106 win-loss record. iloveoov has a 228-143 win-loss record. Boxer has a 253-206 win-loss record.
I guess Boxer's 253 wins is the next to surpass for the great Jaedong. Nada's 374 wins might never be beaten, as Starcraft 2 will probably be out by the time anyone comes close to that.
lomo sends tank + 4 vultues in , hwasin gets tank out just in time, lomo mines 50 scvs almost blow up, but nothing happens. lomo micro'd bad. and is expo'ing himself
Hwasin sees that Lomo has left the 12 o'clock expo open, and he runs a dozen vults right in there, taking out a ton of SCVs, and getting mines set up all around it!
Hwasin bringing about 6 Dships to 11 o'clock to pressure Lomo even further!
Lomo is holed up at the 11 o'clock nat, but wow! Hwasin is dropping a SHITLOAD of tanks behind the minline!
Lomo counter-drops right on top of Hwasin's units, but it doesn't do much, and Lomo is forced to lift his CC
That was a great series of moves from Backho plowing right into the nat, then sending a small force of zealots to take out the cannon at Kal's 3rd and finishing with an 18 kill DT on the detectionless base.
On June 30 2009 20:02 crucifix wrote: BackHo is back? Damn, why I voted Stork @ LB? Go STX, hope Oz won't send Jaedong in Ace match if Calm wins obviously :}
Lol Spire finished when ebay started, Hiya is fucked gg I guess. Calm copied Yarnc's build vs Flash which seems to be auto win vs FE, unless you cut a million scvs.
bah i lbed stx, i had a feeling that calm would beat hiya but i never ever expected kal to lose to backho after his msl group, there goes my lb chances
On June 30 2009 20:58 disciple wrote: I was just starting to be confident in Kals game, but damn, this guy is making it so painful for me to be his fan
On June 30 2009 20:58 disciple wrote: I was just starting to be confident in Kals game, but damn, this guy is making it so painful for me to be his fan
Losing to BackHo isn't horrible.
Yeah, people still don't seem to get that he's not bad. He sucks vs Z, but can you say that all those wins vs Flash, Stork, now Kal can be called flukes?
On June 30 2009 20:58 disciple wrote: I was just starting to be confident in Kals game, but damn, this guy is making it so painful for me to be his fan
' talk about being a backho fan you don't know if this day he will play like a beast or if he will curl up like a pussy o the sofa.
On June 30 2009 20:58 disciple wrote: I was just starting to be confident in Kals game, but damn, this guy is making it so painful for me to be his fan
Losing to BackHo isn't horrible.
well, Kal's recent PvP record has been outstanding, BackHo is not the most suitable guy to broke this streak
On June 30 2009 20:58 disciple wrote: I was just starting to be confident in Kals game, but damn, this guy is making it so painful for me to be his fan
Losing to BackHo isn't horrible.
well, Kal's recent PvP record has been outstanding, BackHo is not the most suitable guy to broke this streak
i think backho is really suitable for this. i mean, backho either lose to any D level newb or win against everyone. Backho doesn't play against an opponent, only against himself which means it's not relevant if his opponent is on a streak or smth.
On June 30 2009 23:43 SuperArc wrote: I like how STX was smiling after Modesty's loss, I am sure they were confident of 3-1ing Oz. :p
ye i saw that aswell, they knew Modesty is gonna lose ;D but damn BackHo played some nice PvP, he is actually quite good! and HiyA finally won after losing 8 games in a row, what a great day for a Oz fan such as myself.
On June 30 2009 23:18 SuperArc wrote: BackHo and Kal playing their best, I would bet on BackHo.
He's so underrated.
When Kal plays at his absolute best he's pretty much the #1 protoss easy(the dude at the top of his game is mind boggling. He's just horridly inconsistent). Backho at his best is standard Dragon level, really.
On June 30 2009 23:18 SuperArc wrote: BackHo and Kal playing their best, I would bet on BackHo.
He's so underrated.
When Kal plays at his absolute best he's pretty much the #1 protoss easy(the dude at the top of his game is mind boggling. He's just horridly inconsistent). Backho at his best is standard Dragon level, really.
Kal #1 protoss? Yeah, right.
He's good, but not the best, far from the best (especially with the fact that he's inconsistent).
On June 30 2009 20:58 disciple wrote: I was just starting to be confident in Kals game, but damn, this guy is making it so painful for me to be his fan
Losing to BackHo isn't horrible.
well, Kal's recent PvP record has been outstanding, BackHo is not the most suitable guy to broke this streak
If you look at their record against each other, Backho is 4-0 against Kal including today's game.
Lomo < Hwasin. Lomo got too greedy and expanded too much although I don't think you would be looking for an excuse for this one
Backho > Kal. Nice play from Backho. However you have to put Kal's build order disadvantage into consideration (DT opening vs obs opening)
Hiya > Calm. Calm used the ultra fast muta build that Yarnc used against Flash but Hiya defended nicely despite losing a lot of SCVs and killed Calm with a sweet timing push.
Lomo < Hwasin. Lomo got too greedy and expanded too much although I don't think you would be looking for an excuse for this one
Backho > Kal. Nice play from Backho. However you have to put Kal's build order disadvantage into consideration (DT opening vs obs opening)
Hiya > Calm. Calm used the ultra fast muta build that Yarnc used against Flash but Hiya defended nicely despite losing a lot of SCVs and killed Calm with a sweet timing push.
Yeah this is pretty accurate... I'd like to add that Hiya's timing push was spur-of-the-moment (he cut SCVs even though his nat was empty)
Jaedong's current (and peak) ZvZ Elo is 2343. That's 200 points ahead of the second highest current ZvZ (Effort, 2137) and 130 higher than the next best peak ever (Luxury, 2210, 8 months ago). Not to mention he'd have to lose 2 out of his next 3 games to drop to an 80% lifetime win rate. Utterly ridiculous domination of the matchup.
On July 01 2009 01:55 Macavenger wrote: Jaedong's current (and peak) ZvZ Elo is 2343. That's 200 points ahead of the second highest current ZvZ (Effort, 2137) and 130 higher than the next best peak ever (Luxury, 2210, 8 months ago). Not to mention he'd have to lose 2 out of his next 3 games to drop to an 80% lifetime win rate. Utterly ridiculous domination of the matchup.
Imagine how much more impressive this record would've been if it was about ZvP or ZvT and not for a MU which for 10 years of professional starcraft in Korea produced around 5 memorable games in total
On July 01 2009 01:55 Macavenger wrote: Jaedong's current (and peak) ZvZ Elo is 2343. That's 200 points ahead of the second highest current ZvZ (Effort, 2137) and 130 higher than the next best peak ever (Luxury, 2210, 8 months ago). Not to mention he'd have to lose 2 out of his next 3 games to drop to an 80% lifetime win rate. Utterly ridiculous domination of the matchup.
Imagine how much more impressive this record would've been if it was about ZvP or ZvT and not for a MU which for 10 years of professional starcraft in Korea produced around 5 memorable games in total
On the contrary, with different races, there are always open questions about the map pool, the strategies used (maybe one side has gotten a temporary edge in the meta-game), etc. In a mirror match, there is no denying that it is pure skill.
On July 01 2009 01:55 Macavenger wrote: Jaedong's current (and peak) ZvZ Elo is 2343. That's 200 points ahead of the second highest current ZvZ (Effort, 2137) and 130 higher than the next best peak ever (Luxury, 2210, 8 months ago). Not to mention he'd have to lose 2 out of his next 3 games to drop to an 80% lifetime win rate. Utterly ridiculous domination of the matchup.
Imagine how much more impressive this record would've been if it was about ZvP or ZvT and not for a MU which for 10 years of professional starcraft in Korea produced around 5 memorable games in total
On the contrary, with different races, there are always open questions about the map pool, the strategies used (maybe one side has gotten a temporary edge in the meta-game), etc. In a mirror match, there is no denying that it is pure skill.
On July 01 2009 01:55 Macavenger wrote: Jaedong's current (and peak) ZvZ Elo is 2343. That's 200 points ahead of the second highest current ZvZ (Effort, 2137) and 130 higher than the next best peak ever (Luxury, 2210, 8 months ago). Not to mention he'd have to lose 2 out of his next 3 games to drop to an 80% lifetime win rate. Utterly ridiculous domination of the matchup.
Imagine how much more impressive this record would've been if it was about ZvP or ZvT and not for a MU which for 10 years of professional starcraft in Korea produced around 5 memorable games in total
On the contrary, with different races, there are always open questions about the map pool, the strategies used (maybe one side has gotten a temporary edge in the meta-game), etc. In a mirror match, there is no denying that it is pure skill.
It is true. I cannot deny that it is pure skill.
No one will deny it, it just sucks that a player pulled out this astonishing achievement in arguably the most technical MU there is. I mean the only zvz games which are coming on top of my head are some crazy ass hydra or hive builds which actually has nothing to do with was Jaedong is showing every time. Actually his games vs OversKy were all very entertaining but imho JD's zvz record will always stay eclipsed by smth like oov's 27-0 tvz
On July 01 2009 01:55 Macavenger wrote: Jaedong's current (and peak) ZvZ Elo is 2343. That's 200 points ahead of the second highest current ZvZ (Effort, 2137) and 130 higher than the next best peak ever (Luxury, 2210, 8 months ago). Not to mention he'd have to lose 2 out of his next 3 games to drop to an 80% lifetime win rate. Utterly ridiculous domination of the matchup.
Imagine how much more impressive this record would've been if it was about ZvP or ZvT and not for a MU which for 10 years of professional starcraft in Korea produced around 5 memorable games in total
On the contrary, with different races, there are always open questions about the map pool, the strategies used (maybe one side has gotten a temporary edge in the meta-game), etc. In a mirror match, there is no denying that it is pure skill.
It is true. I cannot deny that it is pure skill.
No one will deny it, it just sucks that a player pulled out this astonishing achievement in arguably the most technical MU there is. I mean the only zvz games which are coming on top of my head are some crazy ass hydra or hive builds which actually has nothing to do with was Jaedong is showing every time. Actually his games vs OversKy were all very entertaining but imho JD's zvz record will always stay eclipsed by smth like oov's 27-0 tvz
like qrs said, I am sure maps played a big factor in oov's streak.
On July 01 2009 02:48 Avidkeystamper wrote: Oov was like Flash going 14 CC and everyone just played to that level. July was like ForGG proxying the crap out of him to teach him a lesson.
i did not understand this at all
edit - nvm your refering to gom i remember now
the one time forgg does a 14 cc he wins (i think) lol
Yeah I feel that Calm lost because he transitioned to Lurkers too soon. He shoulda stayed on muta a bit longer to keep Hiya in his base and ideally whittle down marine count more.
On June 30 2009 18:58 ssj114 wrote: According to TLPD, Jaedong has more televised wins than iloveoov.
Jaedong has a 237-106 win-loss record. iloveoov has a 228-143 win-loss record. Boxer has a 253-206 win-loss record.
I guess Boxer's 253 wins is the next to surpass for the great Jaedong. Nada's 374 wins might never be beaten, as Starcraft 2 will probably be out by the time anyone comes close to that.
Does TLPD inclue gom? If not, those are televised...
On June 30 2009 22:12 ]343[ wrote: backhoooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
edit: is awesome. work a little on mechanics and watching what the hell his units are doing, and he will be really good.
Well, according to what Anytime said in an interview, Backho has great mechanics. He just doesn't understand what timing is and due to that, he leaves me pounding on my chest in frustration.