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On May 24 2009 20:50 Shikyo wrote:
Well, the thing with only massing cannons at the front is that he can only have so many in the range of the forge. Then JD can move back and snipe that forge. And 10 hydras can take out as many as 6 or 7 cannons, so JD would only have to wait for a while. 2 hatcheries can get you surprisingly many hydras.
Yeah, jjonga was preparing for his followup, but just needed to buy enough time for the 1 base P versus 1 base Z to really kick in.
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United States11637 Posts
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United States11393 Posts
I hope no P on ICCUP ever EVER sees that build.
Thx.
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On May 24 2009 20:50 Shikyo wrote:
Well, the thing with only massing cannons at the front is that he can only have so many in the range of the forge. Then JD can move back and snipe that forge. And 10 hydras can take out as many as 6 or 7 cannons, so JD would only have to wait for a while. 2 hatcheries can get you surprisingly many hydras.
Yeah I believe that too. JD would have broken out regardless.
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On May 24 2009 20:52 darktreb wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2009 20:50 Shikyo wrote:
Well, the thing with only massing cannons at the front is that he can only have so many in the range of the forge. Then JD can move back and snipe that forge. And 10 hydras can take out as many as 6 or 7 cannons, so JD would only have to wait for a while. 2 hatcheries can get you surprisingly many hydras. Yeah, jjonga was preparing for his followup, but just needed to buy enough time for the 1 base P versus 1 base Z to really kick in.
What do you mean, 1 base toss to kick in? It will never kick in if you only mass cannons. After JD would break those cannons, Jjonga would have nothing. JD would only need enough hydras to snipe the few cannons in the range of the forge, then snipe the forge, and after that, if Jonga hadn't started pumping goons in time, he'd be completely screwed. Even if he got like 10 cannons, JD would need 18 hydras at most. After that, Jonga has no way to defend against all the hydras and lings. He really needed to get those gateways up. Maybe a tiny bit later, but massing just cannons would not have worked.
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On May 24 2009 20:51 MagisterMan wrote:
Could someone please summarize first 2 games? I just caught the last one of jaedong.
Would be better if you looked at the live report, but first game was on neo medusa and JD went hydra lurk. JD tried to drop in main but it was really well defended. Jjonga had really good harassment with dark temp and high temp then rolled over JD with ball of death.
Game 2 is on God's Garden and Jaedong went 5 Hatch ling, denied Jjonga his nat, then rolled him over with mutalisks.
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On May 24 2009 20:43 samachking wrote:
JD cannot be cheesed ZvP, when will they learn? Didnt Jjonga see his game vs Stork on chupung?
that was nothing compared to Jaedong vs LuCifer on Colosseum Arena MSL game 2. That game showed why Jaedong is TheTyrant.
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On May 24 2009 20:53 Harem wrote:
I hope no P on ICCUP ever EVER sees that build.
Thx.
*crosses fingers that Heartbreak is MOTW*
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United States11637 Posts
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On May 24 2009 20:54 bearbuddy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2009 20:51 MagisterMan wrote:
Could someone please summarize first 2 games? I just caught the last one of jaedong. Would be better if you looked at the live report, but first game was on neo medusa and JD went hydra lurk. JD tried to drop in main but it was really well defended. Jjonga had really good harassment with dark temp and high temp then rolled over JD with ball of death. Game 2 is on God's Garden and Jaedong went 5 Hatch ling, denied Jjonga his nat, then rolled him over with mutalisks.
Thanks! Yeah will look at the thread next time.
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On May 24 2009 20:55 Art.FeeL wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2009 20:43 samachking wrote:
JD cannot be cheesed ZvP, when will they learn? Didnt Jjonga see his game vs Stork on chupung? that was nothing compared to Jaedong vs LuCifer on Colosseum Arena MSL game 2. That game showed why Jaedong is TheTyrant.
Defends vs proxy 9/10 gate having gone 12h, losing maybe 1 drone total while sending first 6 lings to opponent's main and kills him. ^_^
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On May 24 2009 20:55 GTR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2009 20:53 Harem wrote:
I hope no P on ICCUP ever EVER sees that build.
Thx. *crosses fingers that Heartbreak is MOTW*
*crosses fingers too*
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On May 24 2009 19:27 Kaervek56 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2009 19:21 Sadistx wrote:
What's this music in the background? Sounds like Nightwish or something. I'm not exactly sure what song it was, but it sounded like Visions of Atlantis to me.
Is there a list for GOM music?
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On May 24 2009 20:43 GTR wrote:
this game was more jjonga's loss than jaedong's win.
i dont agree with that shit at all.
had jjonga committed more to cannons, his economy and tech wouldve been fucked. JD simply attacked right when jjonga got greedy and stopped adding cannons. jjonga deciding to add to eco/tech instead of cannnons wasnt a mistake, it was a decision, and JD capitalized on it.
2 hatcheries on 1 base for zerg isnt nearly as dire as you guys seem to think. remember, if toss is adding cannons it means his main base is getting probes cut and he's not teching.
to those questioning building the gateway, it was obviously for a zealot so lings didnt simply stream in and surround the cannons.
sure, in retrospect it seems obvious that jjonga shouldve added cannons, it only seems this way beacuse jaedong was constantly adding drones and teching his hydras, and as soon as jjonga stopped the cannon production he would simply attack and break out. had jjonga added more cannons, jaedong would simply delay his attack, knowing that as long as he keeps up drone and hatchery production he will be ahead of jjonga by the time he breaks out.
you guys are taking way too much credit away from JD
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On May 24 2009 20:55 Art.FeeL wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2009 20:43 samachking wrote:
JD cannot be cheesed ZvP, when will they learn? Didnt Jjonga see his game vs Stork on chupung? that was nothing compared to Jaedong vs LuCifer on Colosseum Arena MSL game 2. That game showed why Jaedong is TheTyrant.
Ofc, I know about the lucifer game, but i mentioned the Stork game specifically because it was the exact same build. Also JD has some really sick winrate vs Protoss 1 base play, almost every game I see a P cheese him or play 1 base they lose.
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United States11393 Posts
On May 24 2009 20:57 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2009 20:55 Art.FeeL wrote:On May 24 2009 20:43 samachking wrote:
JD cannot be cheesed ZvP, when will they learn? Didnt Jjonga see his game vs Stork on chupung? that was nothing compared to Jaedong vs LuCifer on Colosseum Arena MSL game 2. That game showed why Jaedong is TheTyrant. Defends vs proxy 9/10 gate having gone 12h, losing maybe 1 drone total while sending first 6 lings to opponent's main and kills him. ^_^
He left like one or two zerglings behind.
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Vampire Toss vs Falcooooon PUNCH. Who will win?
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On May 24 2009 20:58 Harem wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2009 20:57 Shikyo wrote:On May 24 2009 20:55 Art.FeeL wrote:On May 24 2009 20:43 samachking wrote:
JD cannot be cheesed ZvP, when will they learn? Didnt Jjonga see his game vs Stork on chupung? that was nothing compared to Jaedong vs LuCifer on Colosseum Arena MSL game 2. That game showed why Jaedong is TheTyrant. Defends vs proxy 9/10 gate having gone 12h, losing maybe 1 drone total while sending first 6 lings to opponent's main and kills him. ^_^ He left like one or two zerglings behind.
No no, those were the next 2 that popped. He didn't use any of the first lings vs the zealots, just owned them with drones and sunkens.
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On May 24 2009 20:58 lazz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2009 20:43 GTR wrote:
this game was more jjonga's loss than jaedong's win. i dont agree with that shit at all. had jjonga committed more to cannons, his economy and tech wouldve been fucked. JD simply attacked right when jjonga got greedy and stopped adding cannons. jjonga deciding to add to eco/tech instead of cannnons wasnt a mistake, it was a decision, and JD capitalized on it. 2 hatcheries on 1 base for zerg isnt nearly as dire as you guys seem to think. remember, if toss is adding cannons it means his main base is getting probes cut and he's not teching. to those questioning building the gateway, it was obviously for a zealot so lings didnt simply stream in and surround the cannons. sure, in retrospect it seems obvious that jjonga shouldve added cannons, it only seems this way beacuse jaedong was constantly adding drones and teching his hydras, and as soon as jjonga stopped the cannon production he would simply attack and break out. had jjonga added more cannons, jaedong would simply delay his attack, knowing that as long as he keeps up drone and hatchery production he will be ahead of jjonga by the time he breaks out. you guys are taking way too much credit away from JD
Yeah, only jaedong haters would say jjonga gave the game away.
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EPT
