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First time doing this, GGs.
Oh, I might not be back for about 20 minutes after these matches start, so I won't be able to update results until I get back.
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United States17042 Posts
looks good for a first time (my first time doing one of these sucked. Make sure you stay awake to keep the results updated xD
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OH man! which one to watch WemadeFOX or ACE? both are good matches
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GO ESTRO......
Sea.Really > Pure
SangHo > Mind
Upmagic > Nada
3-0 estro easy rape
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Will be interesting to see if Mind can join Flash in overcoming Medusa IMBA.
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Oh yeah it's Medusa... damn, Estro MIGHT 3-0 this if they all play at a very high level. UpMagic is cheese and nada is kind of weak vs cheese so...
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On December 06 2008 09:55 Tekin wrote:
OH man! which one to watch WemadeFOX or ACE? both are good matches
Real men watch both.
eSTRO Fighting!~
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I really want to see Mind get hot again and maby win another starleague I love that guy for dethroning bisu, also his tvp is orgasmic sangho has no chance
On a side note it is so nice to see nada back in the lineup I missed him.
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United States17042 Posts
On December 06 2008 12:52 Tensai176 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2008 09:55 Tekin wrote:
OH man! which one to watch WemadeFOX or ACE? both are good matches Real men watch both. eSTRO Fighting!~
but we can't live report both easily. what are we going to do.
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please someone post daumsports stream when there is one up and VLC from corinthos if there is one, watching with a friend
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Umm where are the games??
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just previewing right now
i can do live reports for a little when it starts maybe
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showing players in the booths and studio etc
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whats the hotkey for fullscreen on daumsports?
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Really's up top, Pure down below
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United States17042 Posts
On December 06 2008 14:12 Pokebunny wrote:
whats the hotkey for fullscreen on daumsports?
you doubleclick (left click) the screen that is playing video
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ugh my stream died and wont come back on
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okay here we go @ destination
fuck my stream died again
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pure's going for a citadel vs really's 1 fact fe
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2 gate, robo, and temp arch for pure right now
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okay my stream is back yeah musume is right
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DT drop incoming probably
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really went for teh siege mode first, shuttle's out with 2 dt inside for pure
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and two dt's harrasing really's main
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really making 2nd fac and ebay
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he's using really's tanks for splash damage against the scv's
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lol two vults get into pure's main
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really getting two more facts for 4 fact, pure's getting 2 mroe gates for 6 gates
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Sea.Really with nice vulture harass
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pure keeps letting random vults get into his nat, mines almost trigger b4 zealots kill em @ mineral line
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Manages to get a vulture in the natural killing 2-3 probes.
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Vulture harassing while hoarding tanks.
Protoss is just expanding, Terran taking a third.
Protoss engages, with no mines/vultures, the tanks in the mid get absolutley raped. It's gg.
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OH my god. What a huge blunder from really.
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GG, Sea.Really. You need mines or vultures you idiot.
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huge battle in the mid where really's tanks are sieged, barely any mines planted pure breaking in to really's nat and Really GG's
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wtf was that really. he pulled himself back in the game with that harass, too
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On December 06 2008 14:26 Tensai176 wrote:
GG, Sea.Really. You need mines or vultures you idiot.
how dare you.
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omg these commentator random tidbits so hallarious
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big bang cyon commercial is tight...
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2nd match is up, the first of three shins for estro is up (sangho)
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interesting tidbit, mind's got a 3-0 advantage of SangHo
mind 11
sangho 3
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Mind's walling, take note Rage =P
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Zealot out for Sangho, as well as a goon. The wall safely deflects zlot harass.
Terran taking the min only.
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1 gate robo for sangho, and yeah taht harrasing zeal didnt get into the main =P goon and lot firing on the depot however, two scv's repaiting and the depot gets breached...
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Go for mnm build with excess minerals!
Protoss just beating down on the supply, three scvs repairing that shizz. Goon is at the wall smacking the scvs. PROTOSS GETS THE SUPPLY DOWN, TANK IS OUT THOUGH! Good micro, protoss cant get the tank down, but he's in the base.
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SEIGE WITH MASS REPAIR SCV GETS DOWN!!! SANGHO CANT KILL THE TANK! And mind safely defends his base, protoss taking his natural.
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Corinthos
Canada1842 Posts
vlc stream: mmsh://75.126.18.2:1112
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oh fricking wow, quick wall reflex by mind and hero tank with 1 hp takes out the zealot
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sangho's got 2 gate plus robo & facility
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sangho's having a hard time to drop his stuff
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Protoss taking his mineral only, Protoss shuttle in terran's base look for some kills.
reaver hits go off on two tanks.
No tank casalities yet. Reaver kills some scvs not that many.
Reaver with 5-6 kills, now in the min only sniping a turret.
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sangho going for them carriers
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Observer sees all of Mind's shit, and the shuttle is coming in again.
Protoss is taking a third gas, and we see two stargates as well as a Fleet Beacon.
CLUTCH SCAN SCOUTS THE CARRIER-TECH!!
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Shuttle lurking in again, but mind's shit looks pretty impregnable. Sangho snipes a tank with goon/reaver micro. Shuttle back off
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Sangho with two cars out now and adding more gates. Mind is adding a factory whcih brings his count to 6.
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4 carriers cant stop 1 dropship lol
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Two armories up for mind, a dropship pops and takes 4 vultures.
Mind drops the vultures outside his base but goons come and clean it up.
Mind's drop ship is spots dropship but it still lands despite the dropship getting some hits from carriers. The vulture gets 4-5 probes. Sangho with the great pylon wall block the vult harass from killing probes at his 4th.
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Mind is pushing out now with 4-5 tanks, gols, + a few vults.
Sangho has goon/zlot/cars, mind made it to the middle and is now mining up.
Sea.really should take note that you need to lay mines and have other units to stop zlots.
Mind taking his 4th.
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Sangho with 5 or so carriers, Mind moves his gols to Sangho's fourth,
Sangho counter with cars, golsvs.cars ensues, looks like cars are getting raping. Sangho adds gateway + cannons to stal terran advance. Vultures make it through the wal, and rape probes, at sangho's third gas. Gols smacking a carrier but terran is forced to back off without killing it.
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its carriers vs gols @ sangho's 5 exp and he got some vults in through that wall..
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He goes in again with the gols, this time theres alot of goliaths and the cars seem like they dont have alot of interceptors. That wall holding strong, and the gols back off, only to come again with a tank to kill that wall.
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sangho's got liek 7 carriers
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Reaver drop on Mind;s fourth!
Good move by sangho, this is what he needs. Cars snipe tank, epic car vs. gols battle at sangho's third gas. Mind taking another expo.
Doesn't really notice reaver getting 21 kills off his expo.
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Sango breaks free, Mind will lose now
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minds about to lose this...
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Sangho clearing out mines at Mind's encampment in the mid, The zealots come streamign through and win teh battle. Tanks are dead and mind's forced to retreat with gols, setting up tanks outside his natural.
Sangho doesn't care, he's going in with goon/cars. No zlots are left.
Mind secures the expo where the reaver raped, while his other expo is getting cannon rushed.
Sangho is outside mind's main with goon/cars
Mind GGS!!!
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haha nice 1. Didn't see that coming after mind streamrolled free a couple of days ago 
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Sangho with like a 9-win streak? ;o
or maybe it was like 5
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On December 06 2008 14:58 rA.Hippie wrote:haha nice 1. Didn't see that coming after mind streamrolled free a couple of days ago
I don't understand Mind either
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My predictions fail TT. I blame protoss domination.
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gg there... man I really hope Nada vs Up will be amazing.
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Korea (South)3086 Posts
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It's magic time. What kind of magic? UPMAGIC.
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NaDa WIN! Pay for yourself on my fantasy team already!!
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i liked your predictions
good job for first time
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SangHo is so damn good now, wtf?!
Tester win, then the other guy lose so I can see Sea.Really at Ace, wwtfffffffffffffffffffffffff
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nada!!!!!!! Your hair!!! wtf
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and wtf my stream going loco...
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Nada expanding while Up is getting early wraiths.
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1 fact, 1 port for upmagic. Nada however is opting for a faster expo.
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Nada with a starport as well, adding control tower.
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Wraith is out for upmagic, and he's pushing out with a surperior force.
Cloaking going down for Nada!
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is awesome32277 Posts
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Up pushing with 4 marines, 2 tanks and his wraith.
Nada upgrading cloak though!
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Upmagic moving up the ramp, he's right in nadas base, nada pulls 12312312 scvs. Good scv defense for nada, but a second wraith reinforce upmagic. Cloaknig down for and chases wraith away, Good defense for Nada.
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Upmagic with a luck mine has killed all of nadas tanks.
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There are so many more wemade fans than estro fans in stream. And there's like 40k people in the stream.
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Those mines are paying off.
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Another luck mine kills gols, and it looks bad for nada, with upmagic retreating though, with a surperior force. Looks bad bad for nada T_T
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Wow Nada is getting wrecked by mines now. He might have even had a slight advantage before that (though he lost a decent amount of SCVs early).
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Nada is getting shelled so badly. That's a weird strat though 3 fact tank.
At least Nada is protecting his expo.
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Nada is throwing SCVs at the many tanks now. So far he's successful in holding them back, but it looks grim.
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Yellow rushes, that should be gg from Nada anytime now.
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Nada actually did a good job holding off that massive amount of tanks, to be really honest.
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GG from Nada.
Upmagic laid the smackdown.
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Nada gg's. I thought he'd have come out of slumping by now.
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Hahahahaha...In was thinking what a waste those mines were but they gave UpMagic the game.
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I'm really not sure how Up turned a failed early timing rush into 2 base 3 fact mass tank into victory, but it looked impressive enough.
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well what the fuck... and damnit I like UpMagic too but NaDa =(
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man estro really isn't a bad team anymore
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Wow, replay shows Nada upgrading goliath missiles first. No wonder.
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i actually dont mind me an estro uniform... they look nice Nony wont look bad in one either
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On December 06 2008 15:28 traced wrote:
man estro really isn't a bad team anymore
They are actually 1 player away from being just as good as OGN or Samsung. I don't think anybody can match lecaf's depth though. They have players who play "only proleague" and players who play "individual leagues". Their team is so deep.
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That one player away hopefully is NonY.
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Rawr ZvZ I don't know anything about this matchup. I can only live report with no analysis.
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Korea (South)3086 Posts
Another disappointing game from Nada...
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fun fact: Shin Hye Sung and Shin Sang Ho both have wins for eSTRO. hyvaa would make it an all "Shin" win for eSTRO
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I have to say that Lecaf is probably the LEAST deep team in the league. They only have Jaedong and BackHo on Z and P, and after that they have nobody. I'd say that STX is the deepest.
Anyways, HYVAA FTW!!!
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Oh and Sangho and UpMagic are quietly going 14-4 this proleague season (SH is 8-2, UM is 6-2)...
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On December 06 2008 15:40 KnightOfNi wrote:
Oh and Sangho and UpMagic are quietly going 14-4 this proleague season (SH is 8-2, UM is 6-2)...
That's actually really interesting to know. Let me go look up Really's numbers.
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hyvaa 9 pool speed, roro 12 hatch. estro should take this right here : <
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Anyways, estro zerg @ 2 and Wemade zerg at 7 on andro. Both send ovies east, meaning that they're never going to scout each other.
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hyvaa going 9 pool gas roro going for the hatch
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Red 9 pool speed, Orange 2 hatch at nat.
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luckily for roro, hyvaa sends ling in wrong direction
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Hyvaa cant lose this game, or he sucks badly.
take my words back, he is going to...
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Red sending his speed lings in the wrong direction.
Orange's pool is just in.
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On December 06 2008 15:40 KnightOfNi wrote:
Oh and Sangho and UpMagic are quietly going 14-4 this proleague season (SH is 8-2, UM is 6-2)...
amazing! i'd love to see estro in the playoffs
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Wow, if hyvaa had guessed right with those Zerglings, that's probably GG right there. Might be good enough anyway, though.
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Oh man roro is really lucky hyvaa scouted him last. Wow.
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Orange thorws down a creep colony and morphs lair.
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Nice. Roro sees lings, cancels hatch and throw up lair + sunken in main
hyvaa's lings is there before its up though and he loses a couple of drones/lings
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right on time for roro's sunk
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On December 06 2008 15:38 KnightOfNi wrote:
I have to say that Lecaf is probably the LEAST deep team in the league. They only have Jaedong and BackHo on Z and P, and after that they have nobody. I'd say that STX is the deepest.
Anyways, HYVAA FTW!!!
Umm, they have fOrGG and Jaedong and a bunch of good supporting players. I would only put Khan and STX over them. CJ's player is still developing, OGN's players aren't as high caliber and some of them have a weak MU, and actually Stars is deeper, but are Zero and GGPlay better? Lecaf is "deep" because their supporting players can win games, unlike KTF who have no decent supporting cast after their two hitters.
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Red has hella speedlings, colony+orange lings fends them off.
Orange cancelled his nat hatch too.
Red sending more lings, sniping drones in out of reach of sunken colony.
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hyvaa has a much faster spire too, though.
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roro sneaking an expansion @ 3 !
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On December 06 2008 15:44 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2008 15:38 KnightOfNi wrote:
I have to say that Lecaf is probably the LEAST deep team in the league. They only have Jaedong and BackHo on Z and P, and after that they have nobody. I'd say that STX is the deepest.
Anyways, HYVAA FTW!!! Umm, they have fOrGG and Jaedong and a bunch of good supporting players. I would only put Khan and STX over them. CJ's player is still developing, OGN's players aren't as high caliber and some of them have a weak MU, and actually Stars is deeper, but are Zero and GGPlay better? Lecaf is "deep" because their supporting players can win games, unlike KTF who have no decent supporting cast after their two hitters.
Kinghts of Ni I shall go to war with you after this game. Hold on.
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Orange has spire morphing in, red's spire is already done. He's going ling/scourge (red).
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doesnt look good for wemade 
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Red tires to break orange again, but orange barely lives. 2 muta pop for orange, 1 of which gets eaten by scourge.
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Oh my god hyvva is raping!
lings/ scourge attacks. Gets 2 muts and a couple of drones
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Muta sourge battles over orange's base. Orange's hidden 3'oclock is still safe.
Red's winning the muta battles.
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noooooo roro
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yeah hyvaa has this. TT
Raping the shit out of roro drones. gg any sec now
wemade 1 - estro 3
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The hidden expansion doesn't do anything for you if you don't make it until it's worht it.
Orange only has like 6 drones at his main.
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Red straight up out micros orange, Orange loses all drones at main and gg's.
I wonder if Orange would have won without trying to sneak the hidden expo.
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u gotta skate8152 Posts
wtf just woke up :S
Really
eSTRO
On December 06 2008 15:38 MorningMusume11 wrote:
fun fact: Shin Hye Sung and Shin Sang Ho both have wins for eSTRO. hyvaa would make it an all "Shin" win for eSTRO
WOW NICE HAHAH
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On December 06 2008 15:41 thunk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2008 15:40 KnightOfNi wrote:
Oh and Sangho and UpMagic are quietly going 14-4 this proleague season (SH is 8-2, UM is 6-2)... That's actually really interesting to know. Let me go look up Really's numbers.
Really is 8-6, so not as impressive as SH and UM. I guess I knew that but didn't know it, if that makes sense. But them combined, they're 22-10, which is really quite fearsome (Like 63%). But Sangho and Upmagic by themselves are 78%, so even more impressive. Good for Estro.
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still pretty funny how hyvaa scouted all (at least his lings runned whole map) expansion spots but not 3 clock :D
edit: Ah he hide drone.
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Haha, hyvaa even scouted that location the drone was about to make the hidden expo out - but the drone was hiding.
Really, hyvaa did everything right that game. There were 3-4 lucky instances that made the game closer than it should have been for roro - and yet it was still one-sided.
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On December 06 2008 15:44 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2008 15:38 KnightOfNi wrote:
I have to say that Lecaf is probably the LEAST deep team in the league. They only have Jaedong and BackHo on Z and P, and after that they have nobody. I'd say that STX is the deepest.
Anyways, HYVAA FTW!!! Umm, they have fOrGG and Jaedong and a bunch of good supporting players. I would only put Khan and STX over them. CJ's player is still developing, OGN's players aren't as high caliber and some of them have a weak MU, and actually Stars is deeper, but are Zero and GGPlay better? Lecaf is "deep" because their supporting players can win games, unlike KTF who have no decent supporting cast after their two hitters. Lecaf is known for being a team that lacks depth. Why? They rely entirely on their aces. Be it anytime [thats over now...] forgg, Jaedong, Lomo, or Backho. The later two to only small extents. What I mean is, the players that are good on lecaf, are very good, but no other players are getting air time. The result? Lecaf has amazing results, but the 'future generation' is virtually unprepared. Other teams have made this mistake in the past, and they get raped for it. Next season Lecaf is going to HAVE to make the transiiton if they want to keep their spot as a top team.
KTF is a good example I guess, of what could happen to lecaf. They didn't develop the next generation properly, so outside of their ace players, they as you said, have no good players. Admittedly that is an over exaggeration, firefist, 815, tempest etc are all very good- up and comers. They are getting their air time, and a few among them next season, or the next, may become top consistent pro gamers. KTF has been taking a beating lately because of the transition they are making.
In the long term, they are running their team more logically than Lecaf. Thats all there is to it.On December 06 2008 15:51 thunk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2008 15:41 thunk wrote:On December 06 2008 15:40 KnightOfNi wrote:
Oh and Sangho and UpMagic are quietly going 14-4 this proleague season (SH is 8-2, UM is 6-2)... That's actually really interesting to know. Let me go look up Really's numbers. Really is 8-6, so not as impressive as SH and UM. I guess I knew that but didn't know it, if that makes sense. But them combined, they're 22-10, which is really quite fearsome (Like 63%). But Sangho and Upmagic by themselves are 78%, so even more impressive. Good for Estro. Well, the truth is, Really is Estr0s best player. Upmagic is inconsistent....Sangho definitely has the capabilities to be compared to really. Nonetheless, Really is just *such* a strong player all around, that hes being sent up against the best, is usually ace [iirc]. He's the better player. Though they are all doing fairly well lately, and thats a good sign.
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In round one, Lecaf played a grand total of FIVE players, including a grand total of 1 protoss and 1 zerg. That is the exact OPPOSITE of depth. Their players:
 Jaedong
 BackHo
 Lomo
HiyA
fOrGG
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AHAHAHAH
KIZZBG WILL BE PROUD
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On December 06 2008 15:45 thunk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2008 15:44 Avidkeystamper wrote:On December 06 2008 15:38 KnightOfNi wrote:
I have to say that Lecaf is probably the LEAST deep team in the league. They only have Jaedong and BackHo on Z and P, and after that they have nobody. I'd say that STX is the deepest.
Anyways, HYVAA FTW!!! Umm, they have fOrGG and Jaedong and a bunch of good supporting players. I would only put Khan and STX over them. CJ's player is still developing, OGN's players aren't as high caliber and some of them have a weak MU, and actually Stars is deeper, but are Zero and GGPlay better? Lecaf is "deep" because their supporting players can win games, unlike KTF who have no decent supporting cast after their two hitters. Kinghts of Ni I shall go to war with you after this game. Hold on.
Remember last year when Flash had to beat his way through like 4 lecaf players to get to the MSL finals (potentially; he didn't). That's alone is 4 legit players that are at least MSL caliber that could be played.
Here are their team stats from TLPD:
Jaedong 10-6
Blackho 5-6
ForGG 5-2
Hiya 4-4
Lomo 4-5
Dongrae 1-0
inter-young 1-0
They have 5 legit players that they can use every game, and they have. They've been winning a lot too. Versus Khan and STX who have both have 4 players who are "reliable" enough to have played more than 5 games.
I think the "deepest" team in terms of distribution of games has to be OGN though. They have 13 players (that's like their whole entire team) have at least played 1 game, with 5 players who have played over 5 games. I think that the talent of Lecaf's players who play a lot is a lot better so they win more. But OGN is to be feared, to say the least.
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was nada/upmagic any good ?
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On December 06 2008 15:53 Dazed_Spy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2008 15:44 Avidkeystamper wrote:On December 06 2008 15:38 KnightOfNi wrote:
I have to say that Lecaf is probably the LEAST deep team in the league. They only have Jaedong and BackHo on Z and P, and after that they have nobody. I'd say that STX is the deepest.
Anyways, HYVAA FTW!!! Umm, they have fOrGG and Jaedong and a bunch of good supporting players. I would only put Khan and STX over them. CJ's player is still developing, OGN's players aren't as high caliber and some of them have a weak MU, and actually Stars is deeper, but are Zero and GGPlay better? Lecaf is "deep" because their supporting players can win games, unlike KTF who have no decent supporting cast after their two hitters. Lecaf is known for being a team that lacks depth. Why? They rely entirely on their aces. Be it anytime [thats over now...] forgg, Jaedong, Lomo, or Backho. The later two to only small extents. What I mean is, the players that are good on lecaf, are very good, but no other players are getting air time. The result? Lecaf has amazing results, but the 'future generation' is virtually unprepared. Other teams have made this mistake in the past, and they get raped for it. Next season Lecaf is going to HAVE to make the transiiton if they want to keep their spot as a top team. KTF is a good example I guess, of what could happen to lecaf. They didn't develop the next generation properly, so outside of their ace players, they as you said, have no good players. Admittedly that is an over exaggeration, firefist, 815, tempest etc are all very good- up and comers. They are getting their air time, and a few among them next season, or the next, may become top consistent pro gamers. KTF has been taking a beating lately because of the transition they are making. In the long term, they are running their team more logically than Lecaf. Thats all there is to it. Show nested quote +On December 06 2008 15:51 thunk wrote:On December 06 2008 15:41 thunk wrote:On December 06 2008 15:40 KnightOfNi wrote:
Oh and Sangho and UpMagic are quietly going 14-4 this proleague season (SH is 8-2, UM is 6-2)... That's actually really interesting to know. Let me go look up Really's numbers. Really is 8-6, so not as impressive as SH and UM. I guess I knew that but didn't know it, if that makes sense. But them combined, they're 22-10, which is really quite fearsome (Like 63%). But Sangho and Upmagic by themselves are 78%, so even more impressive. Good for Estro. Well, the truth is, Really is Estr0s best player. Upmagic is inconsistent....Sangho definitely has the capabilities to be compared to really. Nonetheless, Really is just *such* a strong player all around, that hes being sent up against the best, is usually ace [iirc]. He's the better player. Though they are all doing fairly well lately, and thats a good sign.
I remember reading an interview about KTF where the coach openly stated that they didn't develop new talent enough. It would be a fair argument to say the same about SKT1, even with Fantasy and Best consistently winning. They're have nobody obvious to step into Best or Fantasy's shoes should one of them depart.
I felt like I was missing something. While Really doesn't have a better record, the fact that he's played almost the same amount of games as Sangho and Upmagic combined says something about his reliability. It says that on any give day, the eStro coach thinks that Really's more likely to win a given MU on a given map than Sangho or Upmagic. Which would make Really eStro's best player as you said. Although he's lost some, the fact that he was even chosen indicates his skill and confidence in the eStro house.
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Definitely, OGN should be feared as the sniper team they are. They're damn good at predicting the matchups, which is why they continue to do well without anywhere near an all-star lineup.
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On December 06 2008 15:53 Dazed_Spy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2008 15:44 Avidkeystamper wrote:On December 06 2008 15:38 KnightOfNi wrote:
I have to say that Lecaf is probably the LEAST deep team in the league. They only have Jaedong and BackHo on Z and P, and after that they have nobody. I'd say that STX is the deepest.
Anyways, HYVAA FTW!!! Umm, they have fOrGG and Jaedong and a bunch of good supporting players. I would only put Khan and STX over them. CJ's player is still developing, OGN's players aren't as high caliber and some of them have a weak MU, and actually Stars is deeper, but are Zero and GGPlay better? Lecaf is "deep" because their supporting players can win games, unlike KTF who have no decent supporting cast after their two hitters. Lecaf is known for being a team that lacks depth. Why? They rely entirely on their aces. Be it anytime [thats over now...] forgg, Jaedong, Lomo, or Backho. The later two to only small extents. What I mean is, the players that are good on lecaf, are very good, but no other players are getting air time. The result? Lecaf has amazing results, but the 'future generation' is virtually unprepared. Other teams have made this mistake in the past, and they get raped for it. Next season Lecaf is going to HAVE to make the transiiton if they want to keep their spot as a top team. KTF is a good example I guess, of what could happen to lecaf. They didn't develop the next generation properly, so outside of their ace players, they as you said, have no good players. Admittedly that is an over exaggeration, firefist, 815, tempest etc are all very good- up and comers. They are getting their air time, and a few among them next season, or the next, may become top consistent pro gamers. KTF has been taking a beating lately because of the transition they are making. In the long term, they are running their team more logically than Lecaf. Thats all there is to it. Show nested quote +On December 06 2008 15:51 thunk wrote:On December 06 2008 15:41 thunk wrote:On December 06 2008 15:40 KnightOfNi wrote:
Oh and Sangho and UpMagic are quietly going 14-4 this proleague season (SH is 8-2, UM is 6-2)... That's actually really interesting to know. Let me go look up Really's numbers. Really is 8-6, so not as impressive as SH and UM. I guess I knew that but didn't know it, if that makes sense. But them combined, they're 22-10, which is really quite fearsome (Like 63%). But Sangho and Upmagic by themselves are 78%, so even more impressive. Good for Estro. Well, the truth is, Really is Estr0s best player. Upmagic is inconsistent....Sangho definitely has the capabilities to be compared to really. Nonetheless, Really is just *such* a strong player all around, that hes being sent up against the best, is usually ace [iirc]. He's the better player. Though they are all doing fairly well lately, and thats a good sign.
This would've been true last round, but this round contradicts what you're saying. And everything rely on their "Aces". "Aces" are just the best people of their team and every team plays the best all the time, not just Lecaf. I mean look at STX (last round).
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nice for Estro fans to know that they don't have to rely only on Really
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Really lose
eSTRO win
Really didnt see Really losing to Pure
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Germany2762 Posts
estro for playoffs!
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1584 Posts
good job eSTRO, even though it would be nice with some eSTRO players in the individual leagues as well :D
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Medusa is such a piece of shit map...
Or did Mind's inconsistency strike again?
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On December 06 2008 20:46 adelarge wrote:
Medusa is such a piece of shit map...
Or did Mind's inconsistency strike again?
Was wondering the same thing props for Estro they are doing well .
Edit: Lol i missclicked quote then edit ...
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Nice to Estro doing well ... I wonder how Nony is doing there ???
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On December 06 2008 15:40 KnightOfNi wrote:
Oh and Sangho and UpMagic are quietly going 14-4 this proleague season (SH is 8-2, UM is 6-2)...
Now that is fucking impressive. Granted, UpMagiC is (in)famous for his inconsistency, but it's nice to see him winning against Zergs for once and winning a few in a row. KEEP IT UP BOI!
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Sweden33719 Posts
This is so cool, Upmagic seems to be back in form again
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I don't even need to say "predicted" anymore
really hyvaa sangho up, estro just wins, that's all.
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On December 06 2008 16:11 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2008 15:53 Dazed_Spy wrote:On December 06 2008 15:44 Avidkeystamper wrote:On December 06 2008 15:38 KnightOfNi wrote:
I have to say that Lecaf is probably the LEAST deep team in the league. They only have Jaedong and BackHo on Z and P, and after that they have nobody. I'd say that STX is the deepest.
Anyways, HYVAA FTW!!! Umm, they have fOrGG and Jaedong and a bunch of good supporting players. I would only put Khan and STX over them. CJ's player is still developing, OGN's players aren't as high caliber and some of them have a weak MU, and actually Stars is deeper, but are Zero and GGPlay better? Lecaf is "deep" because their supporting players can win games, unlike KTF who have no decent supporting cast after their two hitters. Lecaf is known for being a team that lacks depth. Why? They rely entirely on their aces. Be it anytime [thats over now...] forgg, Jaedong, Lomo, or Backho. The later two to only small extents. What I mean is, the players that are good on lecaf, are very good, but no other players are getting air time. The result? Lecaf has amazing results, but the 'future generation' is virtually unprepared. Other teams have made this mistake in the past, and they get raped for it. Next season Lecaf is going to HAVE to make the transiiton if they want to keep their spot as a top team. KTF is a good example I guess, of what could happen to lecaf. They didn't develop the next generation properly, so outside of their ace players, they as you said, have no good players. Admittedly that is an over exaggeration, firefist, 815, tempest etc are all very good- up and comers. They are getting their air time, and a few among them next season, or the next, may become top consistent pro gamers. KTF has been taking a beating lately because of the transition they are making. In the long term, they are running their team more logically than Lecaf. Thats all there is to it. On December 06 2008 15:51 thunk wrote:On December 06 2008 15:41 thunk wrote:On December 06 2008 15:40 KnightOfNi wrote:
Oh and Sangho and UpMagic are quietly going 14-4 this proleague season (SH is 8-2, UM is 6-2)... That's actually really interesting to know. Let me go look up Really's numbers. Really is 8-6, so not as impressive as SH and UM. I guess I knew that but didn't know it, if that makes sense. But them combined, they're 22-10, which is really quite fearsome (Like 63%). But Sangho and Upmagic by themselves are 78%, so even more impressive. Good for Estro. Well, the truth is, Really is Estr0s best player. Upmagic is inconsistent....Sangho definitely has the capabilities to be compared to really. Nonetheless, Really is just *such* a strong player all around, that hes being sent up against the best, is usually ace [iirc]. He's the better player. Though they are all doing fairly well lately, and thats a good sign. This would've been true last round, but this round contradicts what you're saying. And everything rely on their "Aces". "Aces" are just the best people of their team and every team plays the best all the time, not just Lecaf. I mean look at STX (last round). In what way does it contradict what I am saying? And yes every team relys on their aces, but most teams give air time to their less reliable up and comer type players. Hell a lot of teams find stable up and comers, yet still dont use them every week, giving air time to the less reliable up and comers, simply because they need to spend time developing the newbies. KTF is doing that now, because they totally failed to do it in the past. Lecaf still hasn't done it. Teams like lecaf and stx who don't give any air time to people who are not *the* best, will inevitably lack ace players in the future.
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Good job estro!
But Pure over Really. Oh well, that was destination which is definitely hard to play for terran against protoss.
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On December 07 2008 03:04 Dazed_Spy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2008 16:11 Avidkeystamper wrote:On December 06 2008 15:53 Dazed_Spy wrote:On December 06 2008 15:44 Avidkeystamper wrote:On December 06 2008 15:38 KnightOfNi wrote:
I have to say that Lecaf is probably the LEAST deep team in the league. They only have Jaedong and BackHo on Z and P, and after that they have nobody. I'd say that STX is the deepest.
Anyways, HYVAA FTW!!! Umm, they have fOrGG and Jaedong and a bunch of good supporting players. I would only put Khan and STX over them. CJ's player is still developing, OGN's players aren't as high caliber and some of them have a weak MU, and actually Stars is deeper, but are Zero and GGPlay better? Lecaf is "deep" because their supporting players can win games, unlike KTF who have no decent supporting cast after their two hitters. Lecaf is known for being a team that lacks depth. Why? They rely entirely on their aces. Be it anytime [thats over now...] forgg, Jaedong, Lomo, or Backho. The later two to only small extents. What I mean is, the players that are good on lecaf, are very good, but no other players are getting air time. The result? Lecaf has amazing results, but the 'future generation' is virtually unprepared. Other teams have made this mistake in the past, and they get raped for it. Next season Lecaf is going to HAVE to make the transiiton if they want to keep their spot as a top team. KTF is a good example I guess, of what could happen to lecaf. They didn't develop the next generation properly, so outside of their ace players, they as you said, have no good players. Admittedly that is an over exaggeration, firefist, 815, tempest etc are all very good- up and comers. They are getting their air time, and a few among them next season, or the next, may become top consistent pro gamers. KTF has been taking a beating lately because of the transition they are making. In the long term, they are running their team more logically than Lecaf. Thats all there is to it. On December 06 2008 15:51 thunk wrote:On December 06 2008 15:41 thunk wrote:On December 06 2008 15:40 KnightOfNi wrote:
Oh and Sangho and UpMagic are quietly going 14-4 this proleague season (SH is 8-2, UM is 6-2)... That's actually really interesting to know. Let me go look up Really's numbers. Really is 8-6, so not as impressive as SH and UM. I guess I knew that but didn't know it, if that makes sense. But them combined, they're 22-10, which is really quite fearsome (Like 63%). But Sangho and Upmagic by themselves are 78%, so even more impressive. Good for Estro. Well, the truth is, Really is Estr0s best player. Upmagic is inconsistent....Sangho definitely has the capabilities to be compared to really. Nonetheless, Really is just *such* a strong player all around, that hes being sent up against the best, is usually ace [iirc]. He's the better player. Though they are all doing fairly well lately, and thats a good sign. This would've been true last round, but this round contradicts what you're saying. And everything rely on their "Aces". "Aces" are just the best people of their team and every team plays the best all the time, not just Lecaf. I mean look at STX (last round). In what way does it contradict what I am saying? And yes every team relys on their aces, but most teams give air time to their less reliable up and comer type players. Hell a lot of teams find stable up and comers, yet still dont use them every week, giving air time to the less reliable up and comers, simply because they need to spend time developing the newbies. KTF is doing that now, because they totally failed to do it in the past. Lecaf still hasn't done it. Teams like lecaf and stx who don't give any air time to people who are not *the* best, will inevitably lack ace players in the future.
Lecaf has started to use young, dongrae, and ggaemo this round, so this round contradicts what you're saying. Last round you're right. I think Lecaf is doing exactly what you warned them to do, play more young players.
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On December 07 2008 08:06 fusionsdf wrote:
dongrae is young? ^^
Were you making a pun or did you misread my post?
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WTF didnt expect 3-1
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nada
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On December 07 2008 10:42 Wasabi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2008 04:46 Lebesgue wrote:
Good job estro!
But Pure over Really. Oh well, that was destination which is definitely hard to play for terran against protoss. Some people don't know how decent Wemade could be just because they're losing a lot this season. Pure is definitely a better player than Really during his peak last season. I'm not just saying this because Wemade's my favorite, but because Pure is nowhere near in shape. His winning over Really wouldn't be considered an upset regardless of map. Edit - what's funny is you ignored the match right next to Pure vs Really - Mind vs Sangho. Anyone in their right mind (no pun intended) would put Mind as a favorite just by looking at his recent TvPs.
really is waywaywaywaywayway better than pure
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On December 07 2008 03:04 Dazed_Spy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2008 16:11 Avidkeystamper wrote:On December 06 2008 15:53 Dazed_Spy wrote:On December 06 2008 15:44 Avidkeystamper wrote:On December 06 2008 15:38 KnightOfNi wrote:
I have to say that Lecaf is probably the LEAST deep team in the league. They only have Jaedong and BackHo on Z and P, and after that they have nobody. I'd say that STX is the deepest.
Anyways, HYVAA FTW!!! Umm, they have fOrGG and Jaedong and a bunch of good supporting players. I would only put Khan and STX over them. CJ's player is still developing, OGN's players aren't as high caliber and some of them have a weak MU, and actually Stars is deeper, but are Zero and GGPlay better? Lecaf is "deep" because their supporting players can win games, unlike KTF who have no decent supporting cast after their two hitters. Lecaf is known for being a team that lacks depth. Why? They rely entirely on their aces. Be it anytime [thats over now...] forgg, Jaedong, Lomo, or Backho. The later two to only small extents. What I mean is, the players that are good on lecaf, are very good, but no other players are getting air time. The result? Lecaf has amazing results, but the 'future generation' is virtually unprepared. Other teams have made this mistake in the past, and they get raped for it. Next season Lecaf is going to HAVE to make the transiiton if they want to keep their spot as a top team. KTF is a good example I guess, of what could happen to lecaf. They didn't develop the next generation properly, so outside of their ace players, they as you said, have no good players. Admittedly that is an over exaggeration, firefist, 815, tempest etc are all very good- up and comers. They are getting their air time, and a few among them next season, or the next, may become top consistent pro gamers. KTF has been taking a beating lately because of the transition they are making. In the long term, they are running their team more logically than Lecaf. Thats all there is to it. On December 06 2008 15:51 thunk wrote:On December 06 2008 15:41 thunk wrote:On December 06 2008 15:40 KnightOfNi wrote:
Oh and Sangho and UpMagic are quietly going 14-4 this proleague season (SH is 8-2, UM is 6-2)... That's actually really interesting to know. Let me go look up Really's numbers. Really is 8-6, so not as impressive as SH and UM. I guess I knew that but didn't know it, if that makes sense. But them combined, they're 22-10, which is really quite fearsome (Like 63%). But Sangho and Upmagic by themselves are 78%, so even more impressive. Good for Estro. Well, the truth is, Really is Estr0s best player. Upmagic is inconsistent....Sangho definitely has the capabilities to be compared to really. Nonetheless, Really is just *such* a strong player all around, that hes being sent up against the best, is usually ace [iirc]. He's the better player. Though they are all doing fairly well lately, and thats a good sign. This would've been true last round, but this round contradicts what you're saying. And everything rely on their "Aces". "Aces" are just the best people of their team and every team plays the best all the time, not just Lecaf. I mean look at STX (last round). In what way does it contradict what I am saying? And yes every team relys on their aces, but most teams give air time to their less reliable up and comer type players. Hell a lot of teams find stable up and comers, yet still dont use them every week, giving air time to the less reliable up and comers, simply because they need to spend time developing the newbies. KTF is doing that now, because they totally failed to do it in the past. Lecaf still hasn't done it. Teams like lecaf and stx who don't give any air time to people who are not *the* best, will inevitably lack ace players in the future.
STX does use different players... They've used 9 players over the course of his year, and although most of the time it is the big 4, they have thrown like modesty and by.hero and others like them in before. They haven't played Tossgirl though .
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On December 07 2008 11:35 Wasabi wrote:
You mostly likely have a better understanding of how good Really is - since you've been to Estro and all - but his results do not support it. He doesn't win left and right like Pure had.
i said he was a better player, i didnt say he wins more
sadly he didnt choose protoss
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Why do you say it is sad that he didn't choose protoss?
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Yay! Estro moving up the ranks! Nice~
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Game 1 was surprising that Really lose to Pure. It looked like Really was ahead after defending the DT drop with minimal lost. Really lost it when his tanks had no units or mines to defend it.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/pachi/banner/SPL_080930.png)
