• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:36
CEST 15:36
KST 22:36
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins EWC 202521Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20259Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15
Community News
[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder2EWC 2025 - Replay Pack2Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced35BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0
StarCraft 2
General
Greatest Players of All Time: 2025 Update #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Serral wins EWC 2025 Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 EWC 2025 - Replay Pack
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) TaeJa vs Creator Bo7 SC Evo Showmatch Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
Shield Battery Server New Patch Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced Help: rep cant save [G] Progamer Settings StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL] Non-Korean Championship - Final weekend [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational
Strategy
Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Flash @ Namkraft Laddernet …
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 645 users

[MSL] Ro8: Stork vs Kal - Page 33

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 31 32 33 All
OneOther
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States10774 Posts
October 31 2008 03:17 GMT
#641
On October 31 2008 10:56 SuperJongMan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2008 09:21 OneOther wrote:
The man has OSL finals match coming up in a couple days. come on now.



Come on now. That is a terrible excuse for getting eliminated in the MSL.
It's not even like it's a group stage game. The last MU he practiced his ass off in was PvP.

Can you not see how a upcoming OSL finals match a couple days later would affect his PvP? Against a high caliber player like Kal? I don't care what the last matchup he practiced was for...Stork most likely has been focusing on that PvT. To add on to that, BeSt and Kal have completely different styles. It's not like he shouldn't need to practice as much vs Kal because he practiced his ass off for BeSt. That makes no sense, especially in a BO5 that requires heavy preparation for the mental game, strategies, and so much more.

Fontong
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States6454 Posts
October 31 2008 03:23 GMT
#642
THANK YOU KAL!!

You made my day. Maybe hotbid helped out too, I don't know. But I for sure that hotbids mission isn't finished yet.
[SECRET FONT] "Dragoon bunker"
Dazed.
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3301 Posts
October 31 2008 03:30 GMT
#643
On October 31 2008 12:17 OneOther wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2008 10:56 SuperJongMan wrote:
On October 31 2008 09:21 OneOther wrote:
The man has OSL finals match coming up in a couple days. come on now.



Come on now. That is a terrible excuse for getting eliminated in the MSL.
It's not even like it's a group stage game. The last MU he practiced his ass off in was PvP.

Can you not see how a upcoming OSL finals match a couple days later would affect his PvP? Against a high caliber player like Kal? I don't care what the last matchup he practiced was for...Stork most likely has been focusing on that PvT. To add on to that, BeSt and Kal have completely different styles. It's not like he shouldn't need to practice as much vs Kal because he practiced his ass off for BeSt. That makes no sense, especially in a BO5 that requires heavy preparation for the mental game, strategies, and so much more.

I'd agree. Stork was not...fully prepared, nor was he however, unprepared. Kal is a formidable opponent with a very unique style, so you can not just play against Best [who is more of a generic macro toss, just much much better] and apply the same techniques to him. Nonetheless, he did play below expectations. Simply in macro, game sense, army control etc. But, like FORGG, Flash, etc before him, hes obviously burnt out from practicing for multiple arrangements. An acceptable defeat, really.

Coming from a guy who hates stork btw.
Never say Die! ||| Fight you? No, I want to kill you.
NonConGuy
Profile Joined October 2008
United States416 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-31 03:58:59
October 31 2008 03:58 GMT
#644
On October 31 2008 12:30 Dazed_Spy wrote:
I'd agree. Stork was not...fully prepared, nor was he however, unprepared. Kal is a formidable opponent with a very unique style, so you can not just play against Best [who is more of a generic macro toss, just much much better] and apply the same techniques to him. Nonetheless, he did play below expectations. Simply in macro, game sense, army control etc. But, like FORGG, Flash, etc before him, hes obviously burnt out from practicing for multiple arrangements. An acceptable defeat, really.

Coming from a guy who hates stork btw.


Definitely, Stork did an interview after his series with BeSt saying how he studied each and every build BeSt did on each map especially Medusa which he did predicted BeSt's build and countered with a 4gate build and beat him. With the importance of the OSL, Stork obviously would rather spend more time studying Fantasy's builds rather than Kal's. Its tough for anyone to practice for 2 bo5 in the same week.
LaLuSh
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden2358 Posts
October 31 2008 04:18 GMT
#645
Kal's apm is crazy. You see how he spams while moving units? gdaaamn
BlackStar
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Netherlands3029 Posts
October 31 2008 04:31 GMT
#646
People underestimate Kal.

But wtf did Stork do on both those Athena games...
traced
Profile Joined October 2007
1739 Posts
October 31 2008 04:37 GMT
#647
On October 31 2008 12:17 OneOther wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2008 10:56 SuperJongMan wrote:
On October 31 2008 09:21 OneOther wrote:
The man has OSL finals match coming up in a couple days. come on now.



Come on now. That is a terrible excuse for getting eliminated in the MSL.
It's not even like it's a group stage game. The last MU he practiced his ass off in was PvP.

Can you not see how a upcoming OSL finals match a couple days later would affect his PvP? Against a high caliber player like Kal? I don't care what the last matchup he practiced was for...Stork most likely has been focusing on that PvT. To add on to that, BeSt and Kal have completely different styles. It's not like he shouldn't need to practice as much vs Kal because he practiced his ass off for BeSt. That makes no sense, especially in a BO5 that requires heavy preparation for the mental game, strategies, and so much more.


i don't buy it, stork has been practicing the past month for pvp, against two guys better than kal.

however, if he didn't have osl he may would have won because he would have been able to develop strategies specifically against kal's habits. we don't know, though, and i seriously doubt it affected him in any other way.
dekuschrub
Profile Joined May 2008
United States2069 Posts
October 31 2008 04:39 GMT
#648
If stork plays like balls against fantasy too then we'll know if he a choker..

if he plays against fantasy like he did against best then we will know his lack of practice cost him the game against Kal.

only time will tell!

(please don't play like this tomorrow stork i will cry... no only because I like you but it would be a lame final to watch you get rolled again)
OneOther
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States10774 Posts
October 31 2008 04:43 GMT
#649
Wow. Stork practicing for PvP against BeSt/Bisu is completely different from a whole new another BEST OUT OF 5 series verses Kal. Even if he mainly focused on PvT for _three_ days, his PvP could get sloppy. Stork most likely concentrated on the series against Fantasy and analyzing him, while Kal had nothing better to do besides practice PvP and watch every single video of Stork. And it will cost Stork the match against players like Kal.
Not that it ended up being a lopsided match anyway. Stork barely lost, 2-3.
traced
Profile Joined October 2007
1739 Posts
October 31 2008 04:49 GMT
#650
i dunno, even thinking about it stork did have a few prepared builds against kal - he had to have practiced a little for the match.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-31 06:02:29
October 31 2008 05:41 GMT
#651
On October 31 2008 13:37 traced wrote:
i don't buy it, stork has been practicing the past month for pvp, against two guys better than kal.


Against two people who play relatively standard PvP compared to Kal. While Kal could tailor his practice 100% to Stork, Stork's practice for Best/Bisu was not 100% applicable to Kal, because of the major difference in his opponent's play style, and the map pool. Just look at his wins over Best on Medusa and Plasma. On Medusa he practiced 4gate goon specifically because all SKT Protosses went 2gate goon reaver. That practice isn't applicable on a different map or on a different opponent. His proxy build on Plasma, similarly, was map specific, since it wasn't possible for Best to mount an immediate counterattack, given the lurker eggs.

EDIT: My 2cents about Stork and Best.

Stork and Best play and practice their games very differently. Stork is absolutely fantastic at planning things out over a game, so he practices different builds for different games. He makes his practice very solid. Evidence of this can be seen in his well-planned-out games in the Stork vs. Best set. Stork's reactive, on-the-spot play, is not as impressive as his planning IMO. In sets where he doesn't have much time to practice, Stork reverts to his fairly standard play (e.g. good ol' proxy dt's into 2base carriers vs. ForGG). And against a player who plays unconventionally, like Kal, he might struggle a bit.

Best on the other hand, practices a fairly conventional game. His builds are rarely anything out of the ordinary, and unpressured, Best will play a fairly standard macro game. While his planning is fairly standard however, he has the ability to think quickly and pull something out on the spot to exploit his opponents' weaknesses. Watch Best vs. Luxury game 3 or Nada vs. Best in Ever 2008 OSL. Even though Best seems to be backed into a corner, he pulls out a surprise to salvage the game, such as ferrying out a zealot rush just out of sight of Luxury's zerglings, or destroying the assimilators to seal his own front door on Troy, buying time so that he can tech appropriately to beat a biomech push.

These two players have different strengths. Against a player of Stork's caliber, Best's tricks can't save him against Stork's flawless execution, because he just doesn't give a wide enough opening for Best to take advantage of. A player like Kal is completely different though. Stork's planning falters against his crazily unconventional play, but Best can take advantage of Kal's weaknesses in execution. Hence, we see Kal is historically 6:3 against Stork, but 0:2 against Best.

In my eyes, these two Protoss kings, Best and Stork are not different enough in skill to say that one is definitely superior to the other. They have different styles, and win different games because of them.
Moderator
boesthius
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States11637 Posts
October 31 2008 05:47 GMT
#652
--- Nuked ---
banged
Profile Joined October 2008
United States46 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-31 06:03:09
October 31 2008 05:51 GMT
#653

i don't buy it, stork has been practicing the past month for pvp, against two guys better than kal.



noone is better then kal
BanZu
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States3329 Posts
October 31 2008 06:17 GMT
#654
On October 31 2008 14:41 TheYango wrote:
In my eyes, these two Protoss kings, Best and Stork are not different enough in skill to say that one is definitely superior to the other. They have different styles, and win different games because of them.

Exactly, it's just like rock-paper-scissors.
Sun Tzu once said, "Defiler becomes useless at the presences of a vessel."
Nitan
Profile Joined September 2008
United States3401 Posts
October 31 2008 06:23 GMT
#655
On October 31 2008 14:41 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2008 13:37 traced wrote:
i don't buy it, stork has been practicing the past month for pvp, against two guys better than kal.


Against two people who play relatively standard PvP compared to Kal. While Kal could tailor his practice 100% to Stork, Stork's practice for Best/Bisu was not 100% applicable to Kal, because of the major difference in his opponent's play style, and the map pool. Just look at his wins over Best on Medusa and Plasma. On Medusa he practiced 4gate goon specifically because all SKT Protosses went 2gate goon reaver. That practice isn't applicable on a different map or on a different opponent. His proxy build on Plasma, similarly, was map specific, since it wasn't possible for Best to mount an immediate counterattack, given the lurker eggs.

EDIT: My 2cents about Stork and Best.

Stork and Best play and practice their games very differently. Stork is absolutely fantastic at planning things out over a game, so he practices different builds for different games. He makes his practice very solid. Evidence of this can be seen in his well-planned-out games in the Stork vs. Best set. Stork's reactive, on-the-spot play, is not as impressive as his planning IMO. In sets where he doesn't have much time to practice, Stork reverts to his fairly standard play (e.g. good ol' proxy dt's into 2base carriers vs. ForGG). And against a player who plays unconventionally, like Kal, he might struggle a bit.

Best on the other hand, practices a fairly conventional game. His builds are rarely anything out of the ordinary, and unpressured, Best will play a fairly standard macro game. While his planning is fairly standard however, he has the ability to think quickly and pull something out on the spot to exploit his opponents' weaknesses. Watch Best vs. Luxury game 3 or Nada vs. Best in Ever 2008 OSL. Even though Best seems to be backed into a corner, he pulls out a surprise to salvage the game, such as ferrying out a zealot rush just out of sight of Luxury's zerglings, or destroying the assimilators to seal his own front door on Troy, buying time so that he can tech appropriately to beat a biomech push.

These two players have different strengths. Against a player of Stork's caliber, Best's tricks can't save him against Stork's flawless execution, because he just doesn't give a wide enough opening for Best to take advantage of. A player like Kal is completely different though. Stork's planning falters against his crazily unconventional play, but Best can take advantage of Kal's weaknesses in execution. Hence, we see Kal is historically 6:3 against Stork, but 0:2 against Best.

In my eyes, these two Protoss kings, Best and Stork are not different enough in skill to say that one is definitely superior to the other. They have different styles, and win different games because of them.


Bravo.
Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself. I am large, I contain multitudes.
fanofbest
Profile Joined August 2008
United States145 Posts
October 31 2008 10:58 GMT
#656
People underestimate Kal.
Best[hyo] ftw
RamenStyle
Profile Joined September 2004
United States1929 Posts
October 31 2008 11:14 GMT
#657
On October 31 2008 19:58 fanofbest wrote:
People underestimate Kal.

Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10704 Posts
October 31 2008 12:17 GMT
#658
On October 31 2008 19:58 fanofbest wrote:
People underestimate Kal.



I actually think most people overestimated Stork or just wanted his curse to end (like me). Therefore Kal did not get good chances to win by that many people .

If Stork would have been as prepared as he was against Best, this probably would have been another story. But he wasn't.

Kal rocks .
Prev 1 31 32 33 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
12:30
King of the Hill Weekly #220
CranKy Ducklings157
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Harstem 535
Hui .297
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 53759
Horang2 3498
ggaemo 2816
Bisu 2770
Flash 1784
Hyun 1174
Jaedong 1047
Barracks 826
EffOrt 788
Mini 627
[ Show more ]
Larva 449
actioN 348
Soulkey 338
Last 243
Snow 216
ZerO 182
Killer 149
Zeus 125
JYJ115
ToSsGirL 102
Rush 82
Leta 82
Movie 52
Sharp 49
sSak 41
Backho 38
Sea.KH 36
sorry 35
sas.Sziky 30
yabsab 28
Shinee 28
[sc1f]eonzerg 27
Sacsri 26
zelot 22
Shine 18
Noble 13
Terrorterran 8
Hm[arnc] 8
ajuk12(nOOB) 8
IntoTheRainbow 6
Aegong 4
Stormgate
RushiSC18
Dota 2
Gorgc6040
qojqva2961
420jenkins240
XcaliburYe234
Dendi80
Counter-Strike
markeloff90
kRYSTAL_42
Other Games
singsing2460
B2W.Neo1168
hiko853
Fuzer 346
DeMusliM339
Happy185
ToD130
QueenE40
ZerO(Twitch)13
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 87
• davetesta42
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis2734
• Jankos959
Other Games
• WagamamaTV256
Upcoming Events
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2h 25m
The PondCast
20h 25m
Online Event
1d 2h
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs TBD
Online Event
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs TBD
OSC
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
FEL Cracow 2025
Underdog Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
CC Div. A S7
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025

Upcoming

BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
Yuqilin POB S2
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.