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On October 24 2008 13:13 Sp1ralArch1tect wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2008 12:12 OneOther wrote:
Um no spiral, Stork often does creative builds.
At least more than most of Protoss out there these days Compared to a dreamer toss he is nothing, if you were to watch his rise (03-04), which I would bet you did, saying he is creative is an insult to Ra or anyone that was. He may be more "creative" than the majority of Protoss on the scene right now, but thats because mechanical Protoss wins more than a creative Toss these days, Stork is definitely a macro monster before hes a dreamer.
Look! Stork's not as creative as you make him out to be since The Dreamer Toss totally outcreatifies him! - That's what I read, and duh, you can make this argument for any toss in the world.
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On October 24 2008 13:39 OneOther wrote:
Stork will rape Best you weak arrogant FOOL!
haha we shall see 
As in watching Stork choke after a build order advantage x3 hehe
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I really would like to see a spiritual Oov vs Kingdom rematch in the OSL finals...
But then again, watching Stork fail epically in the finals would satisfy my hunger for Schadenfreude.
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United States10774 Posts
Are you serious? Stork is one of the most versatile players in the game. His ability to adapt and adjust is what makes him a superb player. Given Stork and Best, Stork has the advantage in terms of strategic flexibility - he has shown a much broader range of play styles than Best. I can't believe you actually just said Stork is less creative than Best. Do you even watch StarCraft? I don't mean to offend you in any way, but that's just an outlandish claim. Best has been, and still is solely known for his macro game. Without a doubt, he has the flattest style out the top Protoss players you mentioned. Best sets himself up in a comfortable economical position, then just wins by outmacroing his opponent. You admit Stork does cool strategies, but you are unwilling to call him a creative player because he is not a "balls out" type of player. Of course Stork is not creative compared to the standards of Nal_ra or Boxer. That's a ridiculous comparison.
Essentially your argument is that Stork's not a creative player because he isn't versatile and doesn't measure up to nal_ra or boxer. I think most of people can agree that Stork has amazing, instinctual adaptability. And that although his creativity and strategic spectrum do not compare to those of nal_ra or boxer, he displays the most variety in his games than any Protoss player out there these days. Certainly more than Best.
I honestly don't even know why you are comparing Stork and Nal_ra at all. Nobody is as creative as ra is, but that doesn't justify Stork being uncreative. Every Protoss is a mechanical player these days. Stork crosses the borderline more frequently than anyone else, though.
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I don't think it'll be a cakewalk either way, but my heart and my liquibet say Stork. Do me proud, Stork, do me proud!
Dinotoss fighting!
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Hey just a random thought thrown out here but does BeSt lose his win streak if stork takes a set like for example BeSt wins 3-1 or 3-2 or does it only count by the actual winner of the match not just the set?
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Valhalla18444 Posts
So fucking excited. This is going to be the sickest PvP series since Kingdom vs Nal_rA.
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, TONIGHT WE CROWN A KING
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looking at the past 2 months, the only PvPs Best played were against subpar PvP players (the "best" of whom are Kal and JangBi), whereas Stork has played over twice as many PvPs and beat the likes of Bisu and BackHo (both arguably pretty good PvPers) in a series. At the same time, Best has momentum on his side. But I still think Stork will take this in a close 3-2 due to Best's "rustiness".
P.S. I realize that Best will be practicing a lot for this, but practice games aren't the same as televised one. but then again Stork's nerves can get to him... it really can go either way, but i have faith in Stork
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Spiral's comment on page 3 should be reiterated. BeSt is going to be one of the more exciting players to watch should he continue to dominate. Spiral put him in both categories of protoss - Dreamer toss and Machine toss. Why? Because he has both. One of his greatest strengths thus far is that he hasn't conformed to one style or the other and seems to be able to switch to the one that will win him games, hence why he has been called absorber Protoss. Literally over the last 6 months BeSt has played with Bisu mulititask, Stork macro, Kingdom balls, you name it. BeSt is probably Protoss player's best chance at seeing Dreamer toss coming back.
Second best?
+ Show Spoiler +Tempest, but he has yet to show the dominance that BeSt has. I can't think of any of other player that has played with similar innovation.
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nicee write up OP!
best is gonna take thisss
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On October 24 2008 14:05 OneOther wrote:
Are you serious? Stork is one of the most versatile players in the game. His ability to adapt and adjust is what makes him a superb player. Given Stork and Best, Stork has the advantage in terms of strategic flexibility - he has shown a much broader range of play styles than Best. I can't believe you actually just said Stork is less creative than Best. Do you even watch StarCraft? I don't mean to offend you in any way, but that's just an outlandish claim. Best has been, and still is solely known for his macro game. Without a doubt, he has the flattest style out the top Protoss players you mentioned. Best sets himself up in a comfortable economical position, then just wins by outmacroing his opponent. You admit Stork does cool strategies, but you are unwilling to call him a creative player because he is not a "balls out" type of player. Of course Stork is not creative compared to the standards of Nal_ra or Boxer. That's a ridiculous comparison.
Essentially your argument is that Stork's not a creative player because he isn't versatile and doesn't measure up to nal_ra or boxer. I think most of people can agree that Stork has amazing, instinctual adaptability. And that although his creativity and strategic spectrum do not compare to those of nal_ra or boxer, he displays the most variety in his games than any Protoss player out there these days. Certainly more than Best.
I honestly don't even know why you are comparing Stork and Nal_ra at all. Nobody is as creative as ra is, but that doesn't justify Stork being uncreative. Every Protoss is a mechanical player these days. Stork crosses the borderline more frequently than anyone else, though.
Yeah, Stork is strong. Stork is flexible. People are stupid when they critisize Stork's game. He's really on another level. Getting that many seconds and besting such a large pool of players consistently is props. He would never be able to do that against pro's if he was predictable. Stork has used, and continues to use every play in the protoss book at a ridiculous high level.
That said, Best is gonna mop the floor with him. Our Sun God has left, and now the new God has come.
Also, my team having the best two out of the 3 PvP's should help Best prepare.
Bisu vs Stork was very very close.
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Who has the best chance to take down Fantasy though? Stork's PvT is beastly.
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I don't think Fantasy has much of a shot for a title.
I hope he does well.
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Yeah, when I said earlier that I thought stork to be one of the more creative players on the scene right now I meant what oneother described, that stork, although fundamentally a robust mechanical player, is also good at planning and executing builds to throw his opponent off. He seems to be able to read his opponents well too. Obviously I wasn't trying to compare him to players that cheese mainly for the entertainment factor, like ra or boxer.
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On October 24 2008 14:54 GarlicPepper wrote:
Who has the best chance to take down Fantasy though? Stork's PvT is beastly.
of course stork over best, even in a final
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On October 24 2008 14:49 thunk wrote:Spiral's comment on page 3 should be reiterated. BeSt is going to be one of the more exciting players to watch should he continue to dominate. Spiral put him in both categories of protoss - Dreamer toss and Machine toss. Why? Because he has both. One of his greatest strengths thus far is that he hasn't conformed to one style or the other and seems to be able to switch to the one that will win him games, hence why he has been called absorber Protoss. Literally over the last 6 months BeSt has played with Bisu mulititask, Stork macro, Kingdom balls, you name it. BeSt is probably Protoss player's best chance at seeing Dreamer toss coming back. Second best? + Show Spoiler +Tempest, but he has yet to show the dominance that BeSt has. I can't think of any of other player that has played with similar innovation.
Okay, so he cheese against Bisu and he's flexible and doesn't conform to style? No, Best is not known for his micro for flexibility or Dreamer toss-ness but his macro, and where did you get the nickname absorber toss from? Don't make up stuff.
I don't support either side but people overromanticize Best's play to ridiculous proportions.
That's not saying he's not awesome, but still.
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On October 24 2008 14:05 OneOther wrote:
Are you serious? Stork is one of the most versatile players in the game. His ability to adapt and adjust is what makes him a superb player. Given Stork and Best, Stork has the advantage in terms of strategic flexibility - he has shown a much broader range of play styles than Best. I can't believe you actually just said Stork is less creative than Best. Do you even watch StarCraft? I don't mean to offend you in any way, but that's just an outlandish claim. Best has been, and still is solely known for his macro game. Without a doubt, he has the flattest style out the top Protoss players you mentioned. Best sets himself up in a comfortable economical position, then just wins by outmacroing his opponent. You admit Stork does cool strategies, but you are unwilling to call him a creative player because he is not a "balls out" type of player. Of course Stork is not creative compared to the standards of Nal_ra or Boxer. That's a ridiculous comparison.
Essentially your argument is that Stork's not a creative player because he isn't versatile and doesn't measure up to nal_ra or boxer. I think most of people can agree that Stork has amazing, instinctual adaptability. And that although his creativity and strategic spectrum do not compare to those of nal_ra or boxer, he displays the most variety in his games than any Protoss player out there these days. Certainly more than Best.
I honestly don't even know why you are comparing Stork and Nal_ra at all. Nobody is as creative as ra is, but that doesn't justify Stork being uncreative. Every Protoss is a mechanical player these days. Stork crosses the borderline more frequently than anyone else, though.
I agree, because no doubt that Best is an amazing player, but it's his top notch macro and multitasking that allows him to win the game. In fact, I think he is the probably the best player with the best mechanics and macro/micro. Like, in PvT, he just attacks all his forces into the terran ball, loses his army, but is back with so much more? wtf?!
On the other hand, I think Stork is MUCH more creative than Best here, no doubt. And on top of that Stork can macro too. But I don't know....... This is going to be one tight game.....
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On October 24 2008 14:46 caelym wrote:
looking at the past 2 months, the only PvPs Best played were against subpar PvP players (the "best" of whom are Kal and JangBi), whereas Stork has played over twice as many PvPs and beat the likes of Bisu and BackHo (both arguably pretty good PvPers) in a series. At the same time, Best has momentum on his side. But I still think Stork will take this in a close 3-2 due to Best's "rustiness".
P.S. I realize that Best will be practicing a lot for this, but practice games aren't the same as televised one. but then again Stork's nerves can get to him... it really can go either way, but i have faith in Stork
Gee if only Best could train with the likes of Bisu......but seriously this is a pretty horrible argument "due to rustiness" he always wins the match up where do you have any place to asset rustiness? He is/was training hardcore with one of the other pvpers on storks level, which you cant say the same for stork since jangbis pvp isnt his strongest matchup. I mean its fair to say you think stork will win, but your reasoning is very flawed.
edit:since when is backho a good pvper? His record aint too great at all, though I recall he cheesed stork a bit in Gom s1, other than that his only real notable pvp win is a 2-1 win over jangbi and like 1 over much? I guess im not sure what the requirements for "pretty good" are these days.
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No one would expect Jaedong's ZvP to be where it is(was) for the last year(?) with only Backho on his team.
His reasoning wasn't flawed, he just didn't mention everything.
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EPT
