EPTOn April 16 2024 23:21 foxmeep wrote:
There's a reason why Snow's ZvP is <40% guys....
There's a reason why Snow's ZvP is <40% guys....
Snow vs Zerg since 2022 in online competition stands at 1,123 wins, 853 losses.
Stop talking out your ass.
[ASL17] Semifinal B - Page 11
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1328 Posts
Snow vs Zerg since 2022 in online competition stands at 1,123 wins, 853 losses. Stop talking out your ass. | ||
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Malongo
Chile3479 Posts
On April 16 2024 23:38 Shinokuki wrote: Oh lord, the whining from 1500 ~ 1700 mmr protoss begins! Deducing that zvp is imba just from ASL games and not on 1000+ games online. There's a reason why JD whined because online proleagues are major source of income and you can't ALL IN all the time in zvp when you're playing 1000+ games rather than 10~20 games. Notice how 8/10 were all ins. Zerg has to all in to beat protoss. If it goes standard protoss wins. SK held it through with his superior mentality and better gambling strategy. It is easy to have a better gambling strategy when you are the one watching the map every time while keeping your opponent guessing. I agree with you: games on proleague are a different class because you can't really gamble when you are throwing your whole team's chances in 1 game. Box series will always favor zerg precisely because they have a way better gambling pattern with better chances. | ||
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prion_
81 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/143/155/d86.png) | ||
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Soft_General_5023
156 Posts
https://vod.afreecatv.com/player/122116079?change_second=6129 snow was convinced he got it he even shuttled probes in | ||
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G5
United States2921 Posts
On April 16 2024 23:38 Shinokuki wrote: Oh lord, the whining from 1500 ~ 1700 mmr protoss begins! Deducing that zvp is imba just from ASL games and not on 1000+ games online. There's a reason why JD whined because online proleagues are major source of income and you can't ALL IN all the time in zvp when you're playing 1000+ games rather than 10~20 games. Notice how 8/10 were all ins. Zerg has to all in to beat protoss. If it goes standard protoss wins. SK held it through with his superior mentality and better gambling strategy. This was just... wow. Zerg has to all-in to beat Protoss? Won with better gambling strategy? Complaining that there might be a scenario where you can't all-in Protoss all of the time? Scoffing at people deducing that ZvP is imba from consistent results from the top league in the world? Just... wow dude... That has to be one of the biggest blind Zerg defender posts I've ever seen. Also, why does whining right now concern you at all? You just saw the more impressive player lose. You saw the winner win with a ton of all-ins that lead to shitty games to watch and because of his shitty to watch all-ins, we get a mirror match up final. What fan wouldn't be upset? If there's a somewhat reasonable time to whine as a fan, it's now. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22664 Posts
On April 17 2024 03:45 Soft_General_5023 wrote: I think it was less confidence and more that he had to. If he didn't get the nexus down he loses so go all in. And he lostin game 3 snow managed to get 4 reavers in island expansion only to be out of minerals to build scarabs for a few seconds and all reavers died https://vod.afreecatv.com/player/122116079?change_second=6129 snow was convinced he got it he even shuttled probes in | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4185 Posts
I also think that ladders or tourneys that are played fast (several series per day) are kind of different game from the preparation tourneys and Terran was (is) the most beneficiary race for these type of tourneys | ||
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superjoppe
Sweden3694 Posts
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Peeano
Netherlands5980 Posts
If Snow had mined the gas. Maybe? If Snow's reavers didn't bug out like mad when he didn't have his shuttle anymore. Maybe? If Snow actually made a cannon when he read Soulkey like a book all game long. Maybe? Fast lair Lurker was absolutely beautiful by Soulkey, and taking the island was smart, but didn't feel unexpected knowing Soulkey's play style. He was the god of 3H 2nd nat into 4 base turtle (and he still is). ZvZ finals is shit for ASL, but hopefully not for us! | ||
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Simplistik
2173 Posts
*sigh* | ||
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Shinokuki
United States924 Posts
On April 17 2024 03:51 G5 wrote: This was just... wow. Zerg has to all-in to beat Protoss? Won with better gambling strategy? Complaining that there might be a scenario where you can't all-in Protoss all of the time? Scoffing at people deducing that ZvP is imba from consistent results from the top league in the world? Just... wow dude... That has to be one of the biggest blind Zerg defender posts I've ever seen. Also, why does whining right now concern you at all? You just saw the more impressive player lose. You saw the winner win with a ton of all-ins that lead to shitty games to watch and because of his shitty to watch all-ins, we get a mirror match up final. What fan wouldn't be upset? If there's a somewhat reasonable time to whine as a fan, it's now. Whining that there will be zvz is fine. Whining that zvp is somehow imba and that it needs even more buff to protoss next ASL Map pool is wrong. It looks like we're headed that way next ASL to prevent zerg from winning it 3x in a row. You actually hear a lot about talks of zvp being a timing/all in focused strategy nowadays from lot of zerg pros. The main essence is that zerg has to abuse lack of scouting info via good ling micro or hit protoss when its weak (when they're transitioning to 3rd gas) If protoss is left to macro and it goes standard then protoss usually wins. This is a common sentiment among all pros. However you can't abuse this aspect all the time online and can't gamble as much which is the reason for most top tier protoss having positive win rate vs top tier zergs. Also, Mini should've won vs soulkey anyways but he threw so many games... Snow can't win these tournaments. He's way too of a standard player so I'd say soulkey is more impressive than snow, considering he 2-5'd snow 2x online in the past 2 weeks and is about to win 2 asls. | ||
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foxmeep
Australia2338 Posts
On April 17 2024 01:40 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote: Snow vs Zerg since 2022 in online competition stands at 1,123 wins, 853 losses. Stop talking out your ass. This is ASL? | ||
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foxmeep
Australia2338 Posts
On April 16 2024 23:38 Shinokuki wrote: Oh lord, the whining from 1500 ~ 1700 mmr protoss begins! Deducing that zvp is imba just from ASL games and not on 1000+ games online. There's a reason why JD whined because online proleagues are major source of income and you can't ALL IN all the time in zvp when you're playing 1000+ games rather than 10~20 games. Notice how 8/10 were all ins. Zerg has to all in to beat protoss. If it goes standard protoss wins. SK held it through with his superior mentality and better gambling strategy. Who's whining? I meant having sick micro (especially reaver control) doesn't win you PvZ. Snow's style works in PvP and PvT, but not in PvZ. Doesn't mean he's bad by any means but he can't cut it with the top Zergs. He lost game 4 because he built 2 robos, and he lost game 5 because he made a poor read and was wrong (2 stargates vs no mutas). He built a pylon and cancelled two cannons game 1 and still won. Building one extra cannon at his nat game 5 isn't instantly game over for him, but it does stop the lurker all in. | ||
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Smorrie
Netherlands2956 Posts
Half of the RO8 bracket was populated by Protoss. Both Mini & Snow had a very competitive series vs last season's champ. I think Protoss has been doing fine. The greatest of tournaments are made by great story lines. Hero has been destroying all the opposition and is a worthy finalist. The question remains whether he could've beaten Snow as well, but together with SK they undeniably are the top 3 players at this moment. Mirror matchups don't make for the most exciting finals, but from SK's perspective, if he is able to make it through Bisu, Mini, Snow & Hero, he really earned that 2nd title. He dodged ZvT (aside from Mong), but last season he fought his way through JyJ & Rush. | ||
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Rainalcar
Croatia561 Posts
And ZvZ is crap for the viewers, an utterly broken matchup that brings negative prospects for bw future. | ||
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Simplistik
2173 Posts
Actually, I think that Snow was behind in all six games. He won the first two games through miraculous micro-brilliance on a level we rarely get to see. And he couldn't quite reproduce it in the last two games. In game 3 he got out-positioned, made some mistake with his gas mining and couldn't overcome those disadvantages. I would expect the Zerg builds in the first two games to have solid winrates over Snow's particular openings. | ||
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Galacsia
Chile163 Posts
Where's Nirli so we can celebrate Snow's demise? | ||
IntoTheWow
is awesome32282 Posts
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mOnion
United States5660 Posts
I can’t believe how stale this matchup is to this day. It’s just blind Protoss having no idea what’s coming after ling speed no matter what they do So sad | ||
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ruhtraeel
Canada137 Posts
On April 16 2024 23:21 foxmeep wrote: There's a reason why Snow's ZvP is <40% guys.... I will say, I was expecting Snow to get rolled pretty hard today, but he played insanely well the first two games and far exceeded my expectations. He's managed to finally figure out ways to use his crazy Reaver micro in PvZ, similar to his other matchups. He's come a long way since dropping out of ASL from Ggaemo That being said, yes, his ZvP in ASL is the weakest out of all the top 6 Protosses (Bisu, Mini, Best, Shuttle, Rain). It seems like every championship level Protoss has one matchup that isn't quite at the level of their other ones, with Bisu and Mini probably being the most complete, but Bisu's PvT being a tad shaky at times and Mini recently trading his PvZ performance for better PvT performance | ||
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