• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:07
CEST 15:07
KST 22:07
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway13
Community News
SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia7Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues26LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments3Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?39Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon What happened to Singapore/Brazil servers?
Tourneys
WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast
Brood War
General
Pros React To: SoulKey's 5-Peat Challenge ASL20 General Discussion BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group B [ASL20] Ro16 Group A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues SC4ALL $1,500 Open Bracket LAN
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Borderlands 3 Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
The Big Programming Thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1759 users

[ASL17] Semifinal B - Page 9

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 7 8 9 10 11 20 Next All
Recommended Games
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler [Game 1] +
Poll: Recommend Snow vs Soulkey Game 1?

Yes (37)
 
100%

No (0)
 
0%

If you have time (0)
 
0%

37 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Snow vs Soulkey Game 1?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time


+ Show Spoiler [Game 2] +
Poll: Recommend Snow vs Soulkey Game 2?

Yes (30)
 
100%

No (0)
 
0%

If you have time (0)
 
0%

30 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Snow vs Soulkey Game 2?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time


+ Show Spoiler [Game 3] +
Poll: Recommend Snow vs Soulkey Game 3?

Yes (57)
 
98%

No (1)
 
2%

If you have time (0)
 
0%

58 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Snow vs Soulkey Game 3?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time


+ Show Spoiler [Game 4] +
Poll: Recommend Snow vs Soulkey Game 4?

Yes (35)
 
97%

If you have time (1)
 
3%

No (0)
 
0%

36 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Snow vs Soulkey Game 4?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time


+ Show Spoiler [Game 5] +
Poll: Recommend Snow vs Soulkey Game 5?

No (12)
 
44%

Yes (10)
 
37%

If you have time (5)
 
19%

27 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Snow vs Soulkey Game 5?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time


+ Show Spoiler [Game 6] +
Poll: Recommend Snow vs Soulkey Game 6?

No (14)
 
50%

Yes (9)
 
32%

If you have time (5)
 
18%

28 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Snow vs Soulkey Game 6?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time


+ Show Spoiler [Game 7] +
Poll: Recommend Snow vs Soulkey Game 7?

Yes (14)
 
64%

No (6)
 
27%

If you have time (2)
 
9%

22 total votes

Your vote: Recommend Snow vs Soulkey Game 7?

(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): If you have time


PVJ
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Hungary5221 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-04-16 12:40:13
April 16 2024 12:39 GMT
#161
Zerg is a total garbage way of living. To paraphrase Jaedong "Zerg what the fuck?"
The heart's eternal vow
kAra
Profile Joined September 2004
Germany1380 Posts
April 16 2024 12:39 GMT
#162
zvz finals lets go :-d
mada mada dane
M3t4PhYzX
Profile Joined March 2019
Poland4201 Posts
April 16 2024 12:39 GMT
#163
*barf*

odi profanum vulgus et arceo
KristofferAG
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Norway25712 Posts
April 16 2024 12:40 GMT
#164
I mean, I'm still gonna watch the finals, I'm just gonna be salty about it.
@KristofferAG | http://vestkyststoy.bandcamp.com | last.fm/user/KristofferAG
RJBTVYOUTUBE
Profile Joined December 2023
Netherlands944 Posts
April 16 2024 12:40 GMT
#165
Kim Min Cheol reallllly needs that money!
JDON MY SOUL!
Rainalcar
Profile Joined April 2010
Croatia360 Posts
April 16 2024 12:41 GMT
#166
To all of you deniers of reality, enjoy ZvZ final. I hope the fans boycott it so hard. I certainly will.
j.r.r.
ggsimida
Profile Joined August 2015
1148 Posts
April 16 2024 12:41 GMT
#167
so much protoss salt in TL lol
Broodwar4lyf
Profile Blog Joined February 2016
304 Posts
April 16 2024 12:41 GMT
#168
ASLs take way too long to start then we end up with a shit final nobody will watch lol
https://cinesnipe.com
HOLYBATS
Profile Joined August 2021
Turkey741 Posts
April 16 2024 12:41 GMT
#169
SK the king of busts.
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13087 Posts
April 16 2024 12:41 GMT
#170
On April 16 2024 21:36 Magic Powers wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2024 21:31 RowdierBob wrote:
On April 16 2024 21:28 Magic Powers wrote:
On April 16 2024 21:26 RowdierBob wrote:
I just don’t get that build from Snow. Like you have to be so certain he’s going muta there or you die to hydra or lurk. He has to play safer there after scouting the early Lair and instead goes 2 gate cair -_-


No, SK forced a gamble. Snow had no way of knowing what he should do. If he guesses right he wins, if he guesses wrong he loses. It's roughly 50/50.

I disagree a tad here. I think he can afford to be a bit more conservative and cover both muta and lurk all-in in this spot. He knows it a 2 base all in of some sort. Instead of just defending he guesses muta, goes 2 gate cair and makes it a coin flip game.

Troy is pretty heavily P favoured. I think snow can afford to be way more defensive there after the lair scout.


Trust me, Snow knows this scenario a lot better than anyone here. If he could've increased his odds by playing a "solid build", he would've done it. There was no solid build option. You should have more trust in this man, he plays protoss for a living at the absolute highest level.


He gambled on muta. You don’t need to be a BW savant here to see what happened. If invests in a few more cannons and not aggressive dbl stargate he prob wins.

I can only think he maybe thinks SK is doing a fake out all in and transitioning into more macro play. Regardless, Snow took the riskier option and it cost him
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
prosatan
Profile Joined September 2009
Romania8267 Posts
April 16 2024 12:42 GMT
#171
I enjoy all matches! zvz , pvp , random , fast maps etc..
let's be happy because we have them !!
Lee JaeDong Fighting! The only church that illuminates is the one that burns.
PVJ
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Hungary5221 Posts
April 16 2024 12:43 GMT
#172
After listening to zergs crying about some fantasy-land disadvantages for months and years you can expect it will be at least salt, probably also pepper that I'll try to rub into others wounds
The heart's eternal vow
M3t4PhYzX
Profile Joined March 2019
Poland4201 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-04-16 12:43:44
April 16 2024 12:43 GMT
#173
On April 16 2024 21:41 Rainalcar wrote:
To all of you deniers of reality, enjoy ZvZ final. I hope the fans boycott it so hard. I certainly will.

I will not watch because I'm just not interested at all.

I'll check who won and that's it.

Bummer.
odi profanum vulgus et arceo
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13087 Posts
April 16 2024 12:44 GMT
#174
On April 16 2024 21:41 ggsimida wrote:
so much protoss salt in TL lol

As a former Z player I’m happy to see Zergs do well but will also be the first to cry at how dull ZvZ is to watch.

4-7 games of intense ling and muta micro is fine, but mirror matchups just aren’t as exciting in finals
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4296 Posts
April 16 2024 12:49 GMT
#175
On April 16 2024 21:41 RowdierBob wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2024 21:36 Magic Powers wrote:
On April 16 2024 21:31 RowdierBob wrote:
On April 16 2024 21:28 Magic Powers wrote:
On April 16 2024 21:26 RowdierBob wrote:
I just don’t get that build from Snow. Like you have to be so certain he’s going muta there or you die to hydra or lurk. He has to play safer there after scouting the early Lair and instead goes 2 gate cair -_-


No, SK forced a gamble. Snow had no way of knowing what he should do. If he guesses right he wins, if he guesses wrong he loses. It's roughly 50/50.

I disagree a tad here. I think he can afford to be a bit more conservative and cover both muta and lurk all-in in this spot. He knows it a 2 base all in of some sort. Instead of just defending he guesses muta, goes 2 gate cair and makes it a coin flip game.

Troy is pretty heavily P favoured. I think snow can afford to be way more defensive there after the lair scout.


Trust me, Snow knows this scenario a lot better than anyone here. If he could've increased his odds by playing a "solid build", he would've done it. There was no solid build option. You should have more trust in this man, he plays protoss for a living at the absolute highest level.


He gambled on muta. You don’t need to be a BW savant here to see what happened. If invests in a few more cannons and not aggressive dbl stargate he prob wins.

I can only think he maybe thinks SK is doing a fake out all in and transitioning into more macro play. Regardless, Snow took the riskier option and it cost him


You're arguing against Snow, not against me, do you realize that?
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
TMNT
Profile Joined January 2021
2812 Posts
April 16 2024 12:52 GMT
#176
On April 16 2024 21:41 RowdierBob wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2024 21:36 Magic Powers wrote:
On April 16 2024 21:31 RowdierBob wrote:
On April 16 2024 21:28 Magic Powers wrote:
On April 16 2024 21:26 RowdierBob wrote:
I just don’t get that build from Snow. Like you have to be so certain he’s going muta there or you die to hydra or lurk. He has to play safer there after scouting the early Lair and instead goes 2 gate cair -_-


No, SK forced a gamble. Snow had no way of knowing what he should do. If he guesses right he wins, if he guesses wrong he loses. It's roughly 50/50.

I disagree a tad here. I think he can afford to be a bit more conservative and cover both muta and lurk all-in in this spot. He knows it a 2 base all in of some sort. Instead of just defending he guesses muta, goes 2 gate cair and makes it a coin flip game.

Troy is pretty heavily P favoured. I think snow can afford to be way more defensive there after the lair scout.


Trust me, Snow knows this scenario a lot better than anyone here. If he could've increased his odds by playing a "solid build", he would've done it. There was no solid build option. You should have more trust in this man, he plays protoss for a living at the absolute highest level.


He gambled on muta. You don’t need to be a BW savant here to see what happened. If invests in a few more cannons and not aggressive dbl stargate he prob wins.

I can only think he maybe thinks SK is doing a fake out all in and transitioning into more macro play. Regardless, Snow took the riskier option and it cost him

It's not a gamble. It's taking the best educated guess. Air superiority is super important on Troy. And because the nat is on high ground, Hydra bust is not popular. He even built 2 Cannons in the main to prevent drops. As I already said before, at this level they can't play the kind of build that guarantees safety in all cases. That is ladder level of play.

Prior to the bust Snow moved his units out a bit and saw a lot of Lings and at that point he knew it was Ling Lurker all in. That is as good as it gets when it comes to obtaining information and reacting to the situations. Blind building more than 2 cannons just for a just in case situation doesn't exist at top level.
Highways
Profile Joined July 2005
Australia6103 Posts
April 16 2024 12:53 GMT
#177
Rather watch SC2 than a ZvZ final
#1 Terran hater
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13087 Posts
April 16 2024 12:57 GMT
#178
On April 16 2024 21:49 Magic Powers wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2024 21:41 RowdierBob wrote:
On April 16 2024 21:36 Magic Powers wrote:
On April 16 2024 21:31 RowdierBob wrote:
On April 16 2024 21:28 Magic Powers wrote:
On April 16 2024 21:26 RowdierBob wrote:
I just don’t get that build from Snow. Like you have to be so certain he’s going muta there or you die to hydra or lurk. He has to play safer there after scouting the early Lair and instead goes 2 gate cair -_-


No, SK forced a gamble. Snow had no way of knowing what he should do. If he guesses right he wins, if he guesses wrong he loses. It's roughly 50/50.

I disagree a tad here. I think he can afford to be a bit more conservative and cover both muta and lurk all-in in this spot. He knows it a 2 base all in of some sort. Instead of just defending he guesses muta, goes 2 gate cair and makes it a coin flip game.

Troy is pretty heavily P favoured. I think snow can afford to be way more defensive there after the lair scout.


Trust me, Snow knows this scenario a lot better than anyone here. If he could've increased his odds by playing a "solid build", he would've done it. There was no solid build option. You should have more trust in this man, he plays protoss for a living at the absolute highest level.


He gambled on muta. You don’t need to be a BW savant here to see what happened. If invests in a few more cannons and not aggressive dbl stargate he prob wins.

I can only think he maybe thinks SK is doing a fake out all in and transitioning into more macro play. Regardless, Snow took the riskier option and it cost him


You're arguing against Snow, not against me, do you realize that?

Eh, snows not here to share his thought process so we’re just speculating.

But once he scouts the quick lair there’s really three options: quick muta, quick lurker, fake all in into macro play. Dbl gate cair does well against muta and fake out but near auto loss to lurker. More cannon crushes the all ins but not so great if SK does a fake out.

If the more learned players have a more accurate opinion I’ll wear it but I still think with the map advantage Protoss has on Troy that snow could’ve taken the more conservative approach to that game.

But it’s all easy in hindsight.
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13087 Posts
April 16 2024 13:00 GMT
#179
On April 16 2024 21:52 TMNT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2024 21:41 RowdierBob wrote:
On April 16 2024 21:36 Magic Powers wrote:
On April 16 2024 21:31 RowdierBob wrote:
On April 16 2024 21:28 Magic Powers wrote:
On April 16 2024 21:26 RowdierBob wrote:
I just don’t get that build from Snow. Like you have to be so certain he’s going muta there or you die to hydra or lurk. He has to play safer there after scouting the early Lair and instead goes 2 gate cair -_-


No, SK forced a gamble. Snow had no way of knowing what he should do. If he guesses right he wins, if he guesses wrong he loses. It's roughly 50/50.

I disagree a tad here. I think he can afford to be a bit more conservative and cover both muta and lurk all-in in this spot. He knows it a 2 base all in of some sort. Instead of just defending he guesses muta, goes 2 gate cair and makes it a coin flip game.

Troy is pretty heavily P favoured. I think snow can afford to be way more defensive there after the lair scout.


Trust me, Snow knows this scenario a lot better than anyone here. If he could've increased his odds by playing a "solid build", he would've done it. There was no solid build option. You should have more trust in this man, he plays protoss for a living at the absolute highest level.


He gambled on muta. You don’t need to be a BW savant here to see what happened. If invests in a few more cannons and not aggressive dbl stargate he prob wins.

I can only think he maybe thinks SK is doing a fake out all in and transitioning into more macro play. Regardless, Snow took the riskier option and it cost him

It's not a gamble. It's taking the best educated guess. Air superiority is super important on Troy. And because the nat is on high ground, Hydra bust is not popular. He even built 2 Cannons in the main to prevent drops. As I already said before, at this level they can't play the kind of build that guarantees safety in all cases. That is ladder level of play.

Prior to the bust Snow moved his units out a bit and saw a lot of Lings and at that point he knew it was Ling Lurker all in. That is as good as it gets when it comes to obtaining information and reacting to the situations. Blind building more than 2 cannons just for a just in case situation doesn't exist at top level.


Early/slow drop is not an option with the layout of Troy. The main cannons and double gate all pointed to Snow gambling on a muta all in. He only built cannons at front after SK flashes all the lings and he realised (too late) what was up.
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4296 Posts
April 16 2024 13:02 GMT
#180
This is getting dumb. Snow lost fair and square and he played extremely well. No reason to argue with someone who's fifty leagues below Snow (because lets face it, everyone in this thread is a newbie compared to Snow). Nobody here has the credentials to criticize Snow's decision to go for dual stargate.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
Prev 1 7 8 9 10 11 20 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Maestros of the Game
13:00
Playoffs - Round of 8
Bunny vs ZounLIVE!
ShoWTimE vs herO
TBD vs Serral
ComeBackTV 556
RotterdaM337
Rex136
WardiTV135
CranKy Ducklings26
SteadfastSC7
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 337
Rex 136
Codebar 98
PiGStarcraft23
SteadfastSC 7
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 21340
Horang2 3018
EffOrt 745
Pusan 427
Last 270
Hyun 240
ggaemo 163
Rush 90
ToSsGirL 76
Sea.KH 67
[ Show more ]
Nal_rA 49
zelot 41
sSak 38
yabsab 35
JYJ24
Hm[arnc] 15
Icarus 11
Noble 7
Shine 7
Terrorterran 6
Dota 2
The International171550
Gorgc15699
Dendi1186
BananaSlamJamma67
Counter-Strike
x6flipin410
oskar113
PGG 33
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King88
Westballz22
Other Games
tarik_tv11458
B2W.Neo993
DeMusliM468
Happy166
Hui .153
mouzStarbuck133
XaKoH 97
NeuroSwarm45
MindelVK26
KnowMe2
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick581
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• iHatsuTV 24
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix9
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• Ler71
• Noizen61
League of Legends
• Jankos2774
Upcoming Events
BSL Team Wars
5h 53m
Afreeca Starleague
20h 53m
Snow vs Sharp
Jaedong vs Mini
Wardi Open
21h 53m
OSC
1d 10h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 20h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 20h
Light vs Speed
Larva vs Soma
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
LiuLi Cup
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Maru vs Reynor
Cure vs TriGGeR
The PondCast
3 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
4 days
Zoun vs Classic
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
[BSL 2025] Weekly
6 days
BSL Team Wars
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
SEL Season 2 Championship
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Polish World Championship 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.