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GomTV3 MSL Ro8 - Savior vs. Free - Page 25

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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Sadness
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Brazil552 Posts
October 25 2007 19:21 GMT
#481
Free is a good player, but Bisu and Stork are soooooooo in another level
You just can´t compare them
Sigrun
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States1655 Posts
October 25 2007 19:22 GMT
#482
Go Savior! Fourth MSL title!
Graphics
Monsen
Profile Joined December 2002
Germany2548 Posts
October 25 2007 19:37 GMT
#483
Well to me game 4 was like game 3 with the necessary adjustments. In game 3 Savior stayed at 3 bases very long, waiting for the push that only came after Free had 3 bases of his own. This multi-teching from 2 bases that this protoss style includes does very little pressure before that (in the hands of Free at least). While Bisu makes up for that with tough Corsair/Dt (or pure Corsair speed Zeals) harass, I already felt in game 3 that you could take 1 or 2 extra expansions against Free in that time.


11 years and counting- TL #680
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8751 Posts
October 25 2007 19:55 GMT
#484
On October 26 2007 02:38 AcquiescE wrote:
bisu is not savior. Bisu was a reaction to saviors dominance. Yes, the reaction was strong and emphatic....but now that savior knows whats to expect...
uh'
bisu will be raped and savior may even crack a smile


Bisu's win rate vs savior is close to 90% and it'd be ridiculous to expect him to maintain that, but it's even harder to imagine that savior could tip it to his side anytime soon. i think bisu will have a 70%+ chance of winning a bo5 against savior if he has to face him in this MSL. and bisu will always maintain a winning record against savior, similar to iloveoov vs nada and nal_ra vs boxer.

anyway, bisu is well on his way to his own dominance. if he wins this MSL and wins an OSL, along with some key victories over S-class terrans, he'll have proven himself in every way possible. then it'll just be a matter of how long he can keep it up
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
Live2Win *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States6657 Posts
October 25 2007 20:46 GMT
#485
I agree with Nony. Bisu's PvZ is a completely different story. Both in game 1 and 2 Free made mistakes that Bisu would not. In game 1 Free's did well to protect his ramp from savior's hydralisk rush, but what was his corsair doing? It was at 9 oclock, with 0 kills. Bisu would have micro'd that sair to hunt down ovies while protecting his ramp from the pressure. That would put a dent in Savior's economy, and since he was 2 hatch it would have been worst.

In game 2 Free stopped scouting after the first probe died. Bisu never stops scouting. In GomTV1 Finals Bisu was always aware of savior's moves.

I'm not sayin Savior hasn't evolved. Instead of trying to going head to head and using the same openings he's mixed it up every game. All 4 games he's used a different unit mix, a different theme. Hydra rush, 3 hatch zerglings rush, dbl expo, and mass expo to mass muta style, one we haven't seen in a while.

Unfortunately these are strategies that have a limit. They don't work all the time, and now that Savior's used it on Free he'll have to come up with something different if he wants to take down Bisu.
SAY YES TO STIM KIDS!!! XD
amorpheus
Profile Joined May 2007
Bulgaria2144 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-10-25 20:56:12
October 25 2007 20:54 GMT
#486
[B]On October 26 2007 03:51 WhatisProtoss wrote:It's better to get archons against mutalisks instead of storm. Free just never could get a sizable group of corsairs since he kept losing them one at a time.

It was at least kind of strange that Free didn't cast a single storm in the last game. With that many mutalisks from Savior, not to mention the guardians it could've been better than the scattered archons that died as easily as the few corsairs.
Maybe just Savior is regaining form and Free's pvz sucks hard (the second statement is more probable) ...
EpiK
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Korea (South)5757 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-10-25 20:58:46
October 25 2007 20:58 GMT
#487
On October 26 2007 05:54 amorpheus wrote:
Show nested quote +
[B]On October 26 2007 03:51 WhatisProtoss wrote:It's better to get archons against mutalisks instead of storm. Free just never could get a sizable group of corsairs since he kept losing them one at a time.

It was at least kind of strange that Free didn't cast a single storm in the last game. With that many mutalisks from Savior, not to mention the guardians it could've been better than the scattered archons that died as easily as the few corsairs.
Maybe just Savior is regaining form and Free's pvz sucks hard (the second statement is more probable) ...

I don't think Savior is out of his slump. Free's pvz is just sloppy. I really like Free's agressive play style in other mu's though. His PvP is just as good as the current Stork's.
il0seonpurpose
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Korea (South)5638 Posts
October 25 2007 21:06 GMT
#488
Nice 마재윤!! Final four baby, you can do it
Jim
Profile Joined November 2003
Sweden1965 Posts
October 25 2007 21:07 GMT
#489
I thought it was BO victories. Gateway first builds dont work vs savior. Why do people do it? Also if you are clearly outclassed (which about 95% of the protoss players are), why dont you do daring BOs?
To sup with the mighty ones, one must climb the path of daggers.
amorpheus
Profile Joined May 2007
Bulgaria2144 Posts
October 25 2007 21:31 GMT
#490
[B]On October 26 2007 05:58 EpiK wrote:
I don't think Savior is out of his slump. Free's pvz is just sloppy. I really like Free's agressive play style in other mu's though. His PvP is just as good as the current Stork's.


Well Savior still is very strong player and will probably make it to the final; pure logic says Bisu will smash everyone in the way to third consecutive MSL Neither any of the two terrans can stop Savior or ra or xellos can stop bisu but still it's a game and everything happens.

P.S. I would gladly watch Kwanro vs Savior at the final, haven't seen much of Savior's zvz lately ...
MoNKeYSpanKeR
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States2869 Posts
October 25 2007 21:57 GMT
#491
On October 25 2007 20:02 DJEtterStyle wrote:
TRY THIS AGAINST BISU, SAVIOR. I DARE YOU.

This game is just more proof sAviOr can do WHATEVER THE FUCK HE WANTS and still win.



Just like the good ol' days.

(game 4)
<3's Mani and Seraphim, thx for the second chance. TSL Name: TSL-mSLeGenD
MoNKeYSpanKeR
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States2869 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-10-25 22:01:53
October 25 2007 21:59 GMT
#492
On October 26 2007 04:21 Sadness wrote:
Free is a good player, but Bisu and Stork are soooooooo in another level
You just can´t compare them


Actually, we have the wonderful TLPD to compair them with, and oh look, Free's PvP is better then storks, and almost as good as bisu's.

Free 57.14% PvZ
Bisu 67.57% PvZ
Stork 50% PvZ

Looks like Stork isn't really out of free's league, eh? and like 10 of free's losses are to savior.
<3's Mani and Seraphim, thx for the second chance. TSL Name: TSL-mSLeGenD
Darkmole
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States900 Posts
October 25 2007 22:06 GMT
#493
im expecting the finals is going to be savior vs bisu and this time savior is gonna be able to win 3 games or less
zer0das
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States8519 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-10-25 22:19:42
October 25 2007 22:13 GMT
#494
Uh... how in the world can you claim Free's PvP is better than Stork's? Stork's PvP is top notch, and against anyone not named Bisu he'll probably win (and even against Bisu, it's about 50/50). He certainly spanked Free in WCG.

Furthermore, I could argue Stork's weakness against Zerg is somewhat forgivable (especially compared to Free's inconsistency against terrans) given that most zergs not named Savior (and July... but July has been hit or miss lately) suck at the matchup. If Free can't beat Savior either, he's not in much better shape than Stork is.
decafchicken
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
United States20168 Posts
October 25 2007 22:39 GMT
#495
On October 26 2007 05:58 EpiK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2007 05:54 amorpheus wrote:
[B]On October 26 2007 03:51 WhatisProtoss wrote:It's better to get archons against mutalisks instead of storm. Free just never could get a sizable group of corsairs since he kept losing them one at a time.

It was at least kind of strange that Free didn't cast a single storm in the last game. With that many mutalisks from Savior, not to mention the guardians it could've been better than the scattered archons that died as easily as the few corsairs.
Maybe just Savior is regaining form and Free's pvz sucks hard (the second statement is more probable) ...

I don't think Savior is out of his slump. Free's pvz is just sloppy. I really like Free's agressive play style in other mu's though. His PvP is just as good as the current Stork's.


Free has extremely good pvz. Excluding savior, he is 23-10. Bisu is 22-12 in comparison.

Doesnt matter, savior will win both starleagues regardless.
how reasonable is it to eat off wood instead of your tummy?
Nyovne
Profile Joined March 2006
Netherlands19141 Posts
October 25 2007 22:47 GMT
#496
On October 26 2007 07:39 decafchicken wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2007 05:58 EpiK wrote:
On October 26 2007 05:54 amorpheus wrote:
[B]On October 26 2007 03:51 WhatisProtoss wrote:It's better to get archons against mutalisks instead of storm. Free just never could get a sizable group of corsairs since he kept losing them one at a time.

It was at least kind of strange that Free didn't cast a single storm in the last game. With that many mutalisks from Savior, not to mention the guardians it could've been better than the scattered archons that died as easily as the few corsairs.
Maybe just Savior is regaining form and Free's pvz sucks hard (the second statement is more probable) ...

I don't think Savior is out of his slump. Free's pvz is just sloppy. I really like Free's agressive play style in other mu's though. His PvP is just as good as the current Stork's.


Free has extremely good pvz. Excluding savior, he is 23-10. Bisu is 22-12 in comparison.

Doesnt matter, savior will win both starleagues regardless.

Preach on brother, preach on.
ModeratorFor remember, that in the end, some are born to live, others born to die. I belong to those last, born to burn, born to cry. For I shall remain alone... forsaken.
zer0das
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States8519 Posts
October 25 2007 22:54 GMT
#497
Then you include Savior and Free looks slightly better than average and Bisu looks godlike. TLPD doesn't include a ton of games Bisu has played against Savior (Race Wars Super Fight, WWI off the top of my head).
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8751 Posts
October 25 2007 23:01 GMT
#498
On October 26 2007 07:39 decafchicken wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2007 05:58 EpiK wrote:
On October 26 2007 05:54 amorpheus wrote:
[B]On October 26 2007 03:51 WhatisProtoss wrote:It's better to get archons against mutalisks instead of storm. Free just never could get a sizable group of corsairs since he kept losing them one at a time.

It was at least kind of strange that Free didn't cast a single storm in the last game. With that many mutalisks from Savior, not to mention the guardians it could've been better than the scattered archons that died as easily as the few corsairs.
Maybe just Savior is regaining form and Free's pvz sucks hard (the second statement is more probable) ...

I don't think Savior is out of his slump. Free's pvz is just sloppy. I really like Free's agressive play style in other mu's though. His PvP is just as good as the current Stork's.


Free has extremely good pvz. Excluding savior, he is 23-10. Bisu is 22-12 in comparison.

Doesnt matter, savior will win both starleagues regardless.


why would you exclude savior? he's the most important opponent. free is a top A-class PvZ player and it takes an S-Class zerg like savior to show his weaknesses in PvZ. sloppy is a good description

the only comparison to make between Bisu and Free is that they get similarly good results against A-class and worse opponents, but Bisu continues with those results against S-Class whereas Free does not.
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
Wizard
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Poland5055 Posts
October 25 2007 23:20 GMT
#499
I apologize about creating this thread and not updating the op, I could have sworn I would be able to, but something came up. Next time, I'll be 100% sure.
sAviOr[gm] ~ want to watch good replays? read my blog: http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/wizard
OneOther
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States10774 Posts
October 25 2007 23:21 GMT
#500
On October 26 2007 08:01 NonY[rC] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2007 07:39 decafchicken wrote:
On October 26 2007 05:58 EpiK wrote:
On October 26 2007 05:54 amorpheus wrote:
[B]On October 26 2007 03:51 WhatisProtoss wrote:It's better to get archons against mutalisks instead of storm. Free just never could get a sizable group of corsairs since he kept losing them one at a time.

It was at least kind of strange that Free didn't cast a single storm in the last game. With that many mutalisks from Savior, not to mention the guardians it could've been better than the scattered archons that died as easily as the few corsairs.
Maybe just Savior is regaining form and Free's pvz sucks hard (the second statement is more probable) ...

I don't think Savior is out of his slump. Free's pvz is just sloppy. I really like Free's agressive play style in other mu's though. His PvP is just as good as the current Stork's.


Free has extremely good pvz. Excluding savior, he is 23-10. Bisu is 22-12 in comparison.

Doesnt matter, savior will win both starleagues regardless.


why would you exclude savior? he's the most important opponent. free is a top A-class PvZ player and it takes an S-Class zerg like savior to show his weaknesses in PvZ. sloppy is a good description

the only comparison to make between Bisu and Free is that they get similarly good results against A-class and worse opponents, but Bisu continues with those results against S-Class whereas Free does not.


Well it could also just be that Bisu's pvz style works better vs savior than Free's does...
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