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On August 22 2019 18:36 asel wrote:
I also don't know why it is constantly stressed that Flash won on transistor. Does that speak for Snow that he lost against Flash on a (also statistically) p favored map?
Because the argument is Transistor was the only P favored map. And since Flash won there despite the odds, it being imbalanced does not matter. Which makes perfect sense.
However, as folks have pointed out. Third World is imbalanced as well. And it was played twice, with Flash losing both times.
Anyway, both Flash and Snow fans should be glad we get a rematch. And in a bo7 finals no less.
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Bulgaria750 Posts
On August 22 2019 16:45 Vinh1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2019 15:34 avanhokie wrote:On August 22 2019 12:38 Vinh1 wrote:
Some people keep criticising Rain for his mistakes but tbh, loosing a first observer would not be a big deal if Rain's opponent is someone else other than Flash. There will always be a plethora of reasons for other players to loose to Flash. He has a genius for exploiting his opponent mistakes.
Rain is also a genius in strategy but he is too lazy compared to Flash.
Snow is just a hype. He even couldn't make it to R8 last ASL. Absolutely ridiculous statement, did you see Snow vs Last in ASL? or vs Last in End of the world? He can toy with a terran that beat Rain in ASL last season. His PvT is definitely better than Rain's and a statement that he is only hype is borderline trolling. Even online his records are better than Rain, the advantage Rain has is in PvP. Snow is catching up in PvZ and is already better by a good margin in PvT. Also Snow works harder than Rain in playing actual games, thats why he has seen such improvement in what was once one of the worst PvZ's in all of BW. Watch as Snow plays a competitive set vs Flash, whereas Rain was out of his depth. Rain beat Last 3:1 in KSL vs ASL series last year in return. So? Online records are not applicable to Rain, because as I said, he is noticeably lazy and does not practice much. He is also known for spending time to test his strategies with computers. Flash also does that. Some people here can confirm. I see Snow is like Larva. They become hyped with some cool strategies but cannot keep up their games consistently.
Snow is the only Protoss to beat Flash in a best-of series in more than a decade, this is his second finals appearance and he's top 4 last KSL by virtue of defeating the best zerg at the time. Consistency can be a problem, I agree, he lost to JyJ in the qualis for KSL2. Still, I'd consider him to be at least even in chances against pretty much everyone atm except for Flash and Rain.
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United States1333 Posts
On August 22 2019 12:38 Vinh1 wrote:
Snow is just a hype. He even couldn't make it to R8 last ASL.
He beat Flash the last series they played lol
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I think Snow is better than Rain PvT and PvZ. One might even argue he is the better player except for mirror matchups.
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Some strong recency bias for Snow. He hasn't proven consistency yet. He's on the long-term come-up. But the scene is so watered down now. Would anyone be surprised if, say, ZerO 3-0'd Snow next season? Or Soma won 3-1? I wouldn't.
Humans are bad at factoring in variance. News at 11.
I don't think Snow has a chance v Flash, but I'd love to be proven wrong.
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On August 23 2019 00:35 KamMoye wrote:
Some strong recency bias for Snow. He hasn't proven consistency yet. He's on the long-term come-up. But the scene is so watered down now. Would anyone be surprised if, say, ZerO 3-0'd Snow next season? Or Soma won 3-1? I wouldn't.
Humans are bad at factoring in variance. News at 11.
I don't think Snow has a chance v Flash, but I'd love to be proven wrong.
The "recency bias" is due to the fact Snow is having good results this year and that it seems that he has fixed his PvZ.
Snow's chanches to beat Flash are surely higher than Rain's, like he showed in ASL 5.
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Snow has a lot to prove with regards to consistency. Just the way it is when you start showing results like he has.
I was never that impressed with Rain, at least relative to his reputation. His series loss against Larva really gave me the impression that he has a tendency to just ram his massive army into the opposition. He crushes lesser Zs and Ts this way, but ends up suiciding his army to other players. His vP this season has been very impressive though.
Having said all that, I am personally more impressed with Snow's PvT and PvZ compared to that of Rain's. Snow was always a PvT specialist even back in the day. But like almost every other P, he couldnt PvZ to save his life. His vZ looked good this season, but it remains to be seen whether he can be consistent.
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On August 23 2019 03:19 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote:
Snow has a lot to prove with regards to consistency. Just the way it is when you start showing results like he has.
I was never that impressed with Rain, at least relative to his reputation. His series loss against Larva really gave me the impression that he has a tendency to just ram his massive army into the opposition. He crushes lesser Zs and Ts this way, but ends up suiciding his army to other players. His vP this season has been very impressive though.
Having said all that, I am personally more impressed with Snow's PvT and PvZ compared to that of Rain's. Snow was always a PvT specialist even back in the day. But like almost every other P, he couldnt PvZ to save his life. His vZ looked good this season, but it remains to be seen whether he can be consistent.
I have exactly the same thoughts.
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I admit I was concerned when I saw the time it took to end the series and that hallu attack.
Thank you Flash and I am sorry to have doubt you there for a second!
GGs
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Bulgaria750 Posts
On August 23 2019 00:35 KamMoye wrote:
Some strong recency bias for Snow. He hasn't proven consistency yet. He's on the long-term come-up. But the scene is so watered down now. Would anyone be surprised if, say, ZerO 3-0'd Snow next season? Or Soma won 3-1? I wouldn't.
Humans are bad at factoring in variance. News at 11.
I don't think Snow has a chance v Flash, but I'd love to be proven wrong.
I suppose recency bias is another word for good current form, because he's the top offline PvTer right now and has greatly improved on his PvZ. We have to see if Best and Stork can deliver when not eliminated by other Protoss.
Point is, Snow is not "just a hype" as he reaches another final in four seasons of the ASL and top four in KSL.
Consistency is, again, still an issue.
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On August 21 2019 20:45 asel wrote:Just got a sick flashback of this thread.
Holy cow that thread.
The amount of people saying that was a bad final because Flash won and in a little time nobody would remembre who he was or that he won an OSL. Even Day9?
LOL that thread is golden.
At least GTR said Flash would dominate StarCraft for a couple of year xD and there were a couple of random TL users (sorry guys  ) that said Flash´s era was beginning.
Funny also that one of those random users was also saying (as a joke mind you) that Tasteless would someday guest commentate at a finals event xD
Better yet there was one guy complaining that Flash was his most hated player and that him winning made everything worse for him. I sure as hell hope that guy stopped watching StarCraft soon after! Otherwise life has been sad for him for a while.
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On August 23 2019 04:57 KobraKay wrote:
Better yet there was one guy complaining that Flash was his most hated player and that him winning made everything worse for him. I sure as hell hope that guy stopped watching StarCraft soon after! Otherwise life has been sad for him for a while.
lol, dont know who you are referring to, but this is making me think of an old TL user and all around Flash hater: Lightwip
Miss that dude :p
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On August 23 2019 00:35 KamMoye wrote:
Some strong recency bias for Snow. He hasn't proven consistency yet. He's on the long-term come-up. But the scene is so watered down now. Would anyone be surprised if, say, ZerO 3-0'd Snow next season? Or Soma won 3-1? I wouldn't.
Humans are bad at factoring in variance. News at 11.
I don't think Snow has a chance v Flash, but I'd love to be proven wrong.
He hasn't proven consistency in PvT? Interesting to write him off vs Flash, considering he won last time.
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On August 23 2019 05:33 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2019 04:57 KobraKay wrote:
Better yet there was one guy complaining that Flash was his most hated player and that him winning made everything worse for him. I sure as hell hope that guy stopped watching StarCraft soon after! Otherwise life has been sad for him for a while. lol, dont know who you are referring to, but this is making me think of an old TL user and all around Flash hater: Lightwip Miss that dude :p
Nah Lightwip I remember. I Started browsing TL roughly around the time of that thread despite only registering later and IIRC that guy came some time after only. Or at least I noticed him after only.
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On August 23 2019 05:33 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2019 04:57 KobraKay wrote:
Better yet there was one guy complaining that Flash was his most hated player and that him winning made everything worse for him. I sure as hell hope that guy stopped watching StarCraft soon after! Otherwise life has been sad for him for a while. lol, dont know who you are referring to, but this is making me think of an old TL user and all around Flash hater: Lightwip Miss that dude :p
Reminds me of the first couple power rank entries about flash lol
After his uninspired performances against GGPlay and Stork, one might have thought that Flash was nothing but hype. I, for one, don’t think much of his late-game management—or even his mid-game management. But given Flash’s age and the fact that he just cruised into both Starleagues, he deserves a low slot in the Power Rank.
I don't like him, you don't like him... Maybe some of you like him, I dunno. That doesn't matter. What matters is that Flash is playing really, really good. Straight wins, too. No cheese from the kid in quite a while. Flash cruised easily into both leagues this season, so we'll see what he can do. Gotta give credit where it's due, even if Flash does look vaguely like a confused fish.
Trying to place Flash in this month’s Power Rank was a frustrating experience for me. On the one hand, his record is incredible, but on the other hand, I can make an “excuse” for every one of his wins. Many of his wins are against players who are weak vT. Others involve favorable maps or cheese builds. Then there was his recent Bo3 against Bisu, which didn’t reflect much in the way of confidence despite his 2-0 win. Still, with an unprecedented career record of 15-3 and losses to only Savior, Boxer, and Hwasin, Flash is getting results. I know he has some skill, but Flash isn't making it easy for me to figure out just how much.
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Flash is kinda like Djokovic in tennis, you may not like his personality or whatever but he demolishes everyone anyway, and eventually lots of people started liking him
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On August 23 2019 09:01 LG)Sabbath wrote:
Flash is kinda like Djokovic in tennis, you may not like his personality or whatever but he demolishes everyone anyway, and eventually lots of people started liking him
This was me. After he proved he wasn't just a flash in the pan, he was the achilles heel of my favorite player.
Over time, I became a fan because... how can you not respect someone who is so hard working and talented.
It took a few years but after wcg2010, I have been watching in awe.
If it wasn't for him Jaedong may have been the god-of-broodwar. But he has proved himself to be amazing in every era.
Hats off to the master.
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On August 23 2019 09:01 LG)Sabbath wrote:
Flash is kinda like Djokovic in tennis, you may not like his personality or whatever but he demolishes everyone anyway, and eventually lots of people started liking him
Funny I always thought people hated him more the more he won.
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yeah, i think djokovic is really unlikable as a tennis champion actually. he's very good,l and a fun game to watch, but definitely not universally liked like federer
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EPT
